Author Topic: New Map: Forest Basin Remake (Read 4710 times)

cusoman · « **on:** July 03, 2009, 07:50:35 PM »

The second map in the FlaWLesS series

Rimini and Cusoman present to you: Forest Basin Remake

This a project done with permission, and is a completely remastered map in the spirit of the original forest basin by Fryth. Enjoy beta 1, please post feedback.

Screenshots

Have fun!!

- Cusoman and Rimini

RiMiNi · « **Reply #1 on:** July 03, 2009, 08:23:04 PM »

Played it a couple mins ago in 3ioS pub and was fun

Found a couple errors with vis, mainly a wall disappears

Enjoii!

jitspoe · « **Reply #2 on:** July 03, 2009, 08:40:52 PM »

Initial thoughts:

- Try to make this run well with reflective water enabled. Having two water levels causes the level to render 3 times. The original had this problem, but reflective water didn't exist then, so Fryth had an excuse.
- The flag feels awkward to get to now. I think it would be better on the ground. Flags that are easy to grab keep the game play flowing.

FluKe · « **Reply #3 on:** July 03, 2009, 09:35:56 PM »

Good map ;P

_burnt · « **Reply #4 on:** July 04, 2009, 08:32:17 AM »

intercourse yeah, i wandered around for 10 minutes and when i were quitting i noticed the 2nd fg, and only cause i were standing next to it.

It's good, i'd like some filler to the dirt sidepath.

RiMiNi · « **Reply #5 on:** July 04, 2009, 10:50:29 AM »

jitspoe, it is all one level of water

jitspoe · « **Reply #6 on:** July 04, 2009, 12:05:05 PM »

Thoughts after playing a bit:

- Feedback from other players was that it was too large, and eventually everybody disconnected. You could probably cut the map in half and still maintain the same layout. The middle area could certainly stand to be compacted. There are long stretches of board walk and water that don't really add to the game play and could stand to be reduced. You might also consider DSM. Have the map super tiny like the original when just a couple people are playing, then expand with more players.
- Looks like I was wrong about the water heights. The r_speeds are just so high that I assumed that was the case. I think it's because you have line of sight across almost the entire map. You might want to re-work the center area (to be smaller, as suggested above, and) to better block line of sight. You might also consider making the map L-shaped like the original fbasin. The current layout is really nothing like the original.
- Must every new map made have an additional flag hidden off somewhere? I was kind of excited when I first saw the map because I didn't notice the second flag. I thought with a few tweaks to the (main) flag accessibility, it would play pretty well. With the second flag, though, players will probably all use the same route into or out of the base. I'd love to see a new map that had good game play by design without the crutch of a second flag to make it harder to defend.
- If you keep the main flag where it is (I still think it would be better on the ground level), you should at least move or remove the bridge so it's possible to jump up on the rocks next to it.
- The water next to the base is much less annoying than in the original fbasin, but the water in the middle is much more annoying. The original fbasin had two paths above the water, but this map has several areas where you have to jump over water. Lots of people were landing in the water, and in some areas, there is no quick path out. Frequent water landings are not fun.

ip0d · « **Reply #7 on:** July 21, 2009, 01:15:19 PM »

Heres a FlaW.

RiMiNi · « **Reply #8 on:** July 22, 2009, 10:26:19 AM »

thanks, already discovered that one

jitspoe · « **Reply #9 on:** August 10, 2009, 03:01:38 AM »

I'm surprised how little feedback this map has considering it's on Superman's server and gets a lot of play time. The whole thing just feels really awkward and cumbersome to navigate to me. Maybe it's just the way I move through it, but it feels like every path has obstacles and detours deliberately placed there in order to make it more difficult to move through.

I've attached a demo of just playing on a pub so you can get a better idea of what I'm talking about and perhaps streamline things a bit.

Suggestions:
- Completely delete or revamp the center. Way too much board walk and water area. This part of the map just plain isn't fun to play on. The map could really stand some additional vis blocking, so take that into consideration if you revamp it.
- Take the water out of the second flag path and add a ramp or hill or something instead of trick jump barrels so it's a more feasible path for exiting the base.
- Move or remove the bridge next to the flag so it's possible to jump up on the ledge next to it.
- Make the ramp ledge next to the flag a bit larger and run all the way down to the ground (so it's more obvious for new players).
- Remove the little ramp jump necessary to get to the second flag path. As you can see from the demo, somebody had difficulty getting up it and blocked everybody else. Plus it's just stupid and does nothing to enhance the gameplay. :-P

cusoman · « **Reply #10 on:** August 10, 2009, 08:18:50 AM »

Thank you for the thorough feedback. When Rimini and I made this, we really focused on balancing all the paths, and I enjoy playing on it. So point by point, im going to match your suggestions

- We are going to Revamp the center, though from your demo you hit the water alot more often the I do. I also noticed that some of the jumps up to "high mid" you missed because those are to be taken with speed or Circle Jumps. Superman suggested adding fog to this map, and I intend to add a light fog, that can hopefully cover up new ugly VIS blockers. Also I am going to try to decrease the amount of water actually there, which will be the second function of the VIS blockers.

- The water in the 2nd flag path and the trick jump were designed to make it easy to grab 2, but force the main flow towards 1. Also its needed to slow that path down so you cannot just speed out of there to the dirt path. Furthermore it makes 2 more of a gamble, and separates players with jumping abilities and non. There is a way to Strafe + Circle jump across the entire water without touching, and going right into the DJ to go out. This is why I will not be changing that path, I might however add/raise some boxes so that you have a higher chance of only getting halfway stuck.

-That ledge was put it after the bridge for looks

- Making this main ramp more accessible is a good idea. Most likely in b2

- Again this was designed with 2 purposes. 1 so people with DJ skill can skip over it with the barrel, or just strafe up it. the 2nd purpose is to slow down the game going into 2. 2 should be easy to get, but not overly easy. We really thought out the speeds of each path, as well as the location of each flag. With further review we may or may not change this for b2.

Lastly no one really comments on whether or not people think the map looks good. I actually think the game play is really well balanced, and looks absolutely amazing. IS THIS JUST ME?!?!

Thanks for your time, b2 coming soon. And keep the feedback coming

- Cusoman and RiMiNi

jitspoe · « **Reply #11 on:** August 10, 2009, 09:09:32 PM »

Fog will actually hurt performance, unless you have a special vis compiler that removes stuff past a certain distance and use the fog to cover that up.

Rick · « **Reply #12 on:** August 11, 2009, 03:50:56 AM »

Quote from: cusoman on August 10, 2009, 08:18:50 AM

- Again this was designed with 2 purposes. 1 so people with DJ skill can skip over it with the barrel, or just strafe up it. the 2nd purpose is to slow down the game going into 2. 2 should be easy to get, but not overly easy. We really thought out the speeds of each path, as well as the location of each flag. With further review we may or may not change this for b2.

I was just play testing it with some bots and I gotta say, the mid high speed path is a very easy path and probably the fastest path in your map. Whereas the other ways seem to either require more skill or you need to hit the jump exactly to keep speed.
I don't know, I probably wouldn't play this in a match for one reason: There is hardly any variations in jumps, it just seems like the jumps are set in stone, I'm not sure. Also, I just dislike how it plays, like everything else I've said, I can't really explain it.

Maybe it's better in matches.

RiMiNi · « **Reply #13 on:** August 11, 2009, 08:51:20 PM »

Well, I'm not sure about matches, but if you try speeding across mid high in a pub, I doubt you will make it without getting shot.

atmays · « **Reply #14 on:** August 11, 2009, 11:42:53 PM »

For some reason I like this map.

UDead · « **Reply #15 on:** August 12, 2009, 05:48:40 AM »

when i play it it lags too much only when im facing away form the teams base.

_burnt · « **Reply #16 on:** August 12, 2009, 05:49:53 AM »

Quote from: UDead on August 12, 2009, 05:48:40 AM

when i play it it lags too much only when im facing away form the teams base.

Bad computer

UDead · « **Reply #17 on:** August 12, 2009, 07:06:10 AM »

It’s not the computer, just trust me on it. Reflected water if also off and still lags in spots, if it was the computer it was lag all over the map and it doesn’t.

Spook · « **Reply #18 on:** August 12, 2009, 02:02:32 PM »

R_speeds are really bad in the map, so even if you have a middle of the road type computer, it'll be horrible in spots.

cusoman · « **Reply #19 on:** August 19, 2009, 07:33:52 PM »

While working on finishing sassault4 I found out how to greatly reduce r_speeds around water. I am going to test this in combination with decreasing the water area displayed to hopefully cut r_speeds in about half for b2

-Cusoman