Author Topic: look of players (Read 7400 times)

Reed · « **Reply #20 on:** March 09, 2006, 11:50:16 AM »

You didnt exactly advertise the fact you were changing the models outside of this forum. Its really no excuse either, you shouldnt presume people will post without being prompted in some way.

Who are you trying to please? The community or yourselves? Im still trying to work that out.

jitspoe · « **Reply #21 on:** March 09, 2006, 02:55:00 PM »

It was posted in the news -- with screenshots, even. Lots of people provided feedback, and it was pretty much all positive. Here, I grabbed some of the comments near the end of the model development:

Quote

Wow, it's been a while since i've checked in here, but darn, that looks mighty slick sirs.... Keep it up!
---
i Really like the idea..
--
Excellent work!!!
I can't wait until the whole model is ready

can you name a date, when everything will be done?
--
S_ eight_ n(s8n) I would normally not comment on such things as this is way out of my forte, but I bow yet again to you and your skilz.... nicely done lord of time, famine, pestilences and Death. Happy father's day. Daddy
---
Lookin' killer S8N. Looks alot better than the other one posted early on in the thread.
---
The helmets have a bright color, but that can be fixed and great job. Really coming together on these new specs!
---
LoL, Lookins great... The rate your going in is wicked awsome fast and nice detail and cool looking characters.
Keep up the good work.
---
Wow.. coming along great.. I think that change is good..
---
s8nsson: sweet mask... what you have there is perfect.
---
Ooh, very nice! Now you must animate.
---
thanks.. You should do the dyec5... like in the first page of this thread.. I think that looks Great.
---
WoW, Starting to look GREAT.
---
Damm, Those skins look crazy awsome... keep those ones!
---
PRETTY!

I love jits enough to call him jitsey.

(Jitsey-pie is optional.)
---
im excited :-D.. i can't wait.. they look EXTREMLY great.. Jitspoe and s8n, you guys did a BADASS job.
---
ya it does look really good. and i must thank all those who put work into and spent many hrs on improving the look of the game. i appreciate the fact you guys would devote your time without compensation to further improve the game that i and many others such as i enjoy as much as we
do.
---
gret job! it looks good
---
it looks done... NOW REALEASE TO PUBLIC !
---
man this is awsome!!!!

Then it gets released and people want to go back to the old model? I don't get it.

Reed · « **Reply #22 on:** March 09, 2006, 03:08:35 PM »

But people cant judge the animation and movements by screenshots. Do you ever think that people are just telling you what you want to hear?

Eiii · « **Reply #23 on:** March 09, 2006, 06:57:52 PM »

...which is why no one likes the model now?
I don't think we've haven't had much of a problem with everyone saying what jits wants... they just might have been a little impatient.

DrRickDaglessMD · « **Reply #24 on:** March 09, 2006, 07:56:32 PM »

im with jitspoe on this one. i think the models are better, even though when i play with them i suck (even more than usual). people are too afraid of change, its just a question of getting used to them. I have one point of contention though, they do seem a LOT smaller than the old models, and until everyone is forced to use the new ones i dont see how its fair that you have to aim at tiny, short and lardy models, and people on other builds can aim at you with a big ugly mong model. Force them to use the new models, they'll whine for a bit, and the oldskool players will have tantrums, but they will get used to it and soon enough they forget the old models even existed (just like you say with the q2 models). Most people dont even have any good reasons for disliking them, other than personal preference, which i think is just retarded seeing as there is no real logic behind it.

- Dag

TinMan · « **Reply #25 on:** March 09, 2006, 08:21:04 PM »

The new models look like ferrets.

Eiii · « **Reply #26 on:** March 09, 2006, 08:39:06 PM »

As do you, my good man.

jitspoe · « **Reply #27 on:** March 09, 2006, 08:48:44 PM »

Playing with the old models actually gives you a disadvantage for aiming. Sure, they're bigger visually, but you don't know where to hit them. Most of the time almost half of the body is sticking outside of the bounding box, so you end up shooting through them. The new models fit inside the bounding box almost exactly, so if you aim at the model, you're aiming at the bounding box.

People begged for a fix for the "shoot through head" bug. This is it. The other option would be to change the size of the bounding box itself, which would drastically impact the game play and make some maps unplayable because you wouldn't be able to fit through certain areas. If you don't like it, provide detailed feedback on what, specifically, needs to be changed.

Here are some things I've gathered:
- Too small. Can't really change that without exceeding the bounding box.
- Too fat. I don't really see it. I guess it's the baggy, untucked shirt. The old model had huge hands, feet, head, legs, etc -- very disproportionate, and the exaggeratedly narrow waist I guess made him thin in comparison to the new model. We could make the new model thinner, but that just means less visible area.
- Crouching looks funny. To fit the bounding box, the crouching animations need to be exactly 1/2 the height of the standing animations. If you can take some reference photos and/or videos to help make more realistic crouched animations, please do.
- Looks like a hunchback. He was obviously hunched over his computer playing paintball2 too much.

But seriously, we'll see what we can do about that.
- Animations are stiff. Yeah... they need work.

It seems like everybody wants the global login system for build 17, so I guess model improvements will have to wait until 18 or whenever...

Playah · « **Reply #28 on:** March 10, 2006, 02:55:30 AM »

Maybe the modells just look smaller when they crouch because they're too "dark" then? Perhaps a solution: make them "lighter"? And about the not masculin body...Maybe a broader torso would fix this problem? (just to know for you: Havent played pb2 now since 1 week but i try to remember some things that i had noticed earlier)
Keep in mind jits: Small improvements could change also a lot

Reed · « **Reply #29 on:** March 10, 2006, 04:54:28 AM »

I dont think the models should be forced upon people. If the old models give you no advantage, or even a disadvantage, then whats the problem in letting people play on them? Its their loss surely? I dont think people are afraid of change, just think about guntemp Dag

What people may be afraid of is the threat to power and influence - I was going to expand on this but im to lazy.

Its all about personal preference, all im saying is i dont like the new models, thats my opinion. Leave the option in to use the old models and im happy.

jitspoe · « **Reply #30 on:** March 10, 2006, 02:14:24 PM »

That's what the r_oldmodels cvar is for. Sheesh.

loial21 · « **Reply #31 on:** March 10, 2006, 02:45:35 PM »

I was about to ask that after reading what crash did. Can you use the r_oldmodels 1 . Is it consider cheating to use this. becuase I have Just to smooth out my game play. Which it did. Just curious.

BTW off topic. everything regarding forum works using netscape 7.2

P!nk · « **Reply #32 on:** March 10, 2006, 03:25:00 PM »

Post removed

jitspoe · « **Reply #33 on:** March 10, 2006, 04:32:29 PM »

You actually use the spell checker? I could hug you.

Using r_oldmodels is fine (why would I have a cheat built in?). The primary reason for including it was because the new models haven't been optimized much and there's no LOD, so they can result in low framerates. It sounds like you're using it for this very reason.

DrRickDaglessMD · « **Reply #34 on:** March 11, 2006, 06:52:52 AM »

reed, you still use build 10 ffs, and for no good reason barre 'doo hoo hoo i think the round is over because a message is in the middle of the screen when i shoot someone doo hoo hoo'. you say they dont give any advantage but jitspoe has repeatedly extoled the virtues of the new models. other than optimization issues and the difficulty difference in seeing the new models over old, there really is no other logical reason to whine about them. also, who the intercourse wouldnt want to play with them because their guy looks fat. how lame is that?

oh and people arent afraid of change? care to search for 'grenades' on the forum, reed? guntemp is retarded, making use of the cocker or mag pointless against more than 2 people, but thats a different matter. the way i see it there are 2 ways you should probably go: leave the new ones in build 16/17, so all new players have the new models and learn the game with them, or come 17/18 force everyone to use the new models, and give them a similar 'dumbed down' (but still the same size, etc..) model for debugging (what im assuming r_oldmodels is really for).

- Dr Dagless

Reed · « **Reply #35 on:** March 11, 2006, 08:23:00 AM »

Leave the old models in, there is no reason not to. I use build 10 because of the annoying elim messages, which i think is a fair reason, but that has NOTHING to do with this thread. If you like build 16 then use it, the only reason youre complaining is that you want to try and give the older players a disadvantage by forcing them to play with a new model. The point of this thread was to criticise the look of the models, not to force people to play the new build.

Everyone is afraid of change in some form or another, but if there are more people resisting the new models than accepting them, then theres f*ck all that you can do. Everyone has given a good reason why they dont like the new models, even you! Dagless - Empathy : 1 (He'll get this)

Just leave the old models in, it isnt hurting anybody, and it gives people an option of what to play with.

Playah · « **Reply #36 on:** March 11, 2006, 08:49:28 AM »

look jits, i want to prove that the new models are way too dark while crouching. ESPECIALLY look at the shoulders/torso and the mask of the model in the newer build in my pic. Theyre the fact that the new models are too dark for me.

Maybe when you look at these pics you could think the "darkness" is not a problem but IMO it is because: when you come around a corner, you can only get the position of your opponent (or if there even is an opponent) with a short (but serious) delay of time due his "darkness".

The older models are better viewable because theyre 1) bigger (the size of the new models shouldnt be changed) and 2) because of The brightened (and big) head and the little brighter shoulders.

PS: the pic of the old model has been made from a little larger distance than the "average fight distance" of the other pic, so you cant compare it 1:1.

PPS: Maybe this and some better animations or a more masculin torso

would get more people to like the new models. This also might make the new model-users like them more.

Matze · « **Reply #37 on:** March 11, 2006, 08:56:25 AM »

To be honest, on this pictures it seems like the new ones are brighter than the old ones =/

And yea for the size, they may be a bit smaller, but thats jsut so it perfectly binds into the hitbox.
As you might rememeber when you crouched with the old models you could shoot through their heads and nothing happened.So why do you need bigger modles when its the same hitbox to hit ?

Reed · « **Reply #38 on:** March 11, 2006, 09:13:49 AM »

Looking at those pics i still maintain that the old models look better. Its down to the size and stance of the new models. I think that the hit boxes should be sacrificed, just have the head outside the hit box when you crouch, like Jits said, if he makes the hit boxes bigger then it will dramatically change the game play and places you can get to on certain maps.

As for the stance i think that when youre crouching one knee should definitely be on the floor, lets face it who can get their knees up to their chest without having their arse on the floor.

DrRickDaglessMD · « **Reply #39 on:** March 11, 2006, 09:17:27 AM »

I empathise with people who like the old models, but im sorry, in my book the line is drawn when its only peoples illogical and idiosyncratic opinions being pitted against progress. I am absolutely shocking with the new models, i cant hit anything at all. but that doesnt mean i dont think they are a good idea, i will just have to get used to them - which im prepared to do. at least Playah posts evidence and comparisons to support his claims! there IS a reason not to include the old models - the exact same reason we're having this discussion. i said jit should put in debugging models for people who are having trouble, such as low-poly versions of the NEW model, because even with debug ones the playing field would still be level. leaving the old models in for debug makes it unfair, as players who use these have better visibility than players using new models.

you just want to keep the old ones because you cant be bothered to get used to the new ones, basically

- Dr Rich Douglas M.D