Midnight2

[vLaD]

midnight2 needs better guns and barrels . carbine preferred.

and also the more skilled players like where they can move more freely not hit every other barrel in the hallway. dp was made more for tactical play by the way these first maps  where created. but it turned into a speed game where people like jumps and fast movement. convert the map into something like propaint1 and Carpathian and it will be more liked.

[DrRickDaglessMD]

~
convert the map into something like propaint1 and Carpathian and it will be more liked.

sigh. Thats exactly what we need, another PP1 clone.

- Dag

[KnacK]

and also the more skilled players like where they can move more freely not hit every other barrel in the hallway. dp was made more for tactical play by the way these first maps  where created. but it turned into a speed game where people like jumps and fast movement. convert the map into something like propaint1 and Carpathian and it will be more liked.

Do this for me.

c:\rd /S c:\games\paintball\* and go play your console games.

[blaa]

Do this for me.

c:\rd /S c:\games\paintball\* and go play your console games.

Yeah, thats so unbelievable that everybody doesnt like the game like you do.

[DrRickDaglessMD]

Yeah, thats so unbelievable that everybody doesnt like the game like you do.

Who said it was unbelievable? Given the average age and conduct of most of the post-'Speed Server Epoch' players I'd say it was a pretty straightforward conclusion. I almost posted exactly the same thing as Knack but I thought it might get modded. This isn't the place for more discussion on the nature of oldschool vs newschool attitudes, lets just simply acknowledge the fact that Jitspoe's design for Midnight2 is probably going to be built to the spec and values of the oldschool crowd. And that is fine by me.

Having said that, I did find on occasion that navigating the low route on the current Midnight2 could be awkward, it could make hairy chases back through low a little frustrating. Primarily this is to do with some of the channels created by the barrel placements are a bit narrow, in my opinion.

- Dag

[iced]

no thanks on the whole midnight2 idea

[JUSTIN]

Some pubbers enjoy the map as to the rest hate it . For some it can be a good map. But not played much in match scene.

[jitspoe]

no thanks on the whole midnight2 idea

Could you elaborate on why?

JUSTIN: cP used to play it.  It plays a lot better in matches than it does pubs.

[iced]

i'd have to agree with justin...i havent played anyone whose map was midnight

[skitzo]

if i was with a team that would want to go over midnight... I'd definetly use it in a match

[iced]

but...no offences jits...but no one does

[skitzo]

because noone wants to learn anything besdies the pub maps (which is disappoiting). I remember one day when Nub and I went through a boat load of old maps to play. If people took some time to learn the older maps the variety of gameplay would be alot more interesting.

[Cameron]

nononononononononono.  When Paintball was floating around our school, the only maps that were played were the ones that came with the game.  We used to play midnight and pd2dm1 all the time, until someone went online found out that everyone else hated those maps and played other ones which were called better by the public.  So everyone ditched them and went to play other ones that were so called better, remembering that midnight and pb2dm1 were hated by all the online players.  Its the message that gets passed on.  You see a lot of newbies playing midnight, its just when an experienced player walks into the server and says "excrement map, change please" that they eventually get the picture.

Its only 1 part of why people don't like the map, there are others though.

[blaa]

 midnight was used by old QeHs and rp and maybe even by the latest q. Midnigh2t2 sucks in my opinion.

[DrRickDaglessMD]

Can people start giving constructive criticism of Midnight2?

I think we get the point that a) pub players don't want teamwork or tactics focussed maps b) midnight2 is apparently not trendy and c) there are clans who play it, although they seem to mostly be defunct ones nowadays.

If we can offer some constructive criticism then perhaps this new Midnight 2 will turn public opinion around.

In my opinion, the areas that might need to be addressed are (as pertains to the existing widely distributed midnight2.bsp):

Movement

- The roof in the spawns are too low for a full height jump when you're on the top spawn platform. Makes it feel a bit cramped and doesn't serve a purpose.

- I mentioned previously that I thought some of the through-lines were a bit cramped or awkward because of barrel placements. Specifically, the one at the base entraces from mid-low and the ones near the bottom of the ladder-well near the caps.

- Not too many clean trick jumps (the doubles in the low-bases are kind of flukey and you end up stood on a tiny outcropping behind a barrel)

Items

- I personally don't mind, but I think a lot of what puts people off is the lower spec gun pickups at the spawns. Perhaps providing slightly better markers at the spawn would stop people being so frustrated with the map initially (i'm not suggesting a load of cockers, despite the fact we all know thats what the idiots all want).

- More hoppers are a must, on a reasonably full server it's a complete nightmare racing for the equipment - only to end up with a Spyder, 12oz CO2...and 10 pb's.

Textures

- The strange bands of blue/red concrete lining the edges of levels in the bases is a little incongruous (I wouldn't even bring this up, but I thought I'd put on my Jitspoe The Texture Nazi costume for halloween )

- There are loads of opportunity to make use of the CTP or other high-res texture packs, but I think you're well aware of that from earlier posts.

Misc

- God I hate barrels. Make a default forum avatar picture with an Anti-Barrels sign on it like 'anticrates' and I'll be a happy happy man.

That about covers it!

- Dag

[Dirty_Taco]

Post removed

[KnacK]

I disagree with most of you, if you want to make midnight2 a competitive map I think it is pretty darn close. The only thing I would change is making it less bottlenecky. It is way too easy for carcoal-reaver-esque players to sit in the window and spray the opposing teams high path. If there was some form of a jump (perhaps at both the points where high and low enter the middle) it would make the gameplay much more interesting.

I feel that the equipment is fine and causes interesting situations; not spawning with the best equipment as is standard in most new maps is refreshing.

If you want to make it a map pub players like make everyone spawn with the best equipment so newbies can sit in the window, spray bottlenecks and get kills. This usually constitutes the type of pub map newbies like.

+1

* KnacK is speechless

[DrRickDaglessMD]

Agreed. I qualified my comment about the items with 'I don't personally mind' because I like the fact that the equipment levels have actually been considered, I was just playing devils advocate. Having said that, it's one thing to encourage interesting gameplay by contouring the equipment levels of starting players, but it's another when the players you're trying to coerce are so ignorant and lazy that they would rather quit or find a new server than play without cockers and automags.

I'd thought about a jump in the mid before but I concluded that the space is rather too small to get away with a clean jump (not involving ladders or jump-pads, etc...), and lengthening the mid would make the low and high bridges even more treacherous. Perhaps if you could contrive some cover for the mid? (no barrels, please!)

Dag

[jitspoe]

Thanks DT and Dag.  That's the kind of feedback I was looking for.  Saying "Midnight 2 sucks" doesn't help any.

The barrels are completely different now, since I'm trying to use realistic proportions.  I was thinking of adding a wall/shield/bunker type thing at the tunnel exits so players in the base can't just spray them.  I may also add an additional tunnel exit (possibly DSM).  I was thinking of having a DSM tunnel that went all the way into the base on the other side, but I want to be careful not to make the map too confusing (seems people are confused a lot by it already).

[vague312]

You could have a hidden button that when pressed opens a door allowing dead players to start running into the center of the map.