Author Topic: Official HR4 (High-Resolution, 4x) Texture Pack - WIP  (Read 149010 times)

jitspoe

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Re: Official HR4 (High-Resolution, 4x) Texture Pack - WIP
« Reply #200 on: August 06, 2013, 12:50:38 PM »
I think it's hard to make official textures for all people. People like different things. I like simple, bright textures but as I see Jitspoe prefers detailed realistic textures.
The purpose of the high resolution textures is to provide high quality versions of the existing textures.  That means maintaining roughly the same hue, saturation, and brightness of the original textures with more detail.  If you want less detailed textures, just keep using the low res ones.  If you want bright textures, well, that's a problem, because it can put you at a notable advantage over people using the stock textures.

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For me its like choose between Counter Strike 1.6 (Jitspoe's official hr4) and Counter Strike Source (My pack). I will always choose the newest version rather than older one. I think my textures looks visually newer than Jitspoes so I prefer playing with them.
Don't you have that flipped around?  CS:S has the more detailed textures, which is what I'm aiming for.  I'm not quite sure I understand your analogy.  CS 1.6 is more like the original, non-highres texture set.

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I don't need to play with realistic textures becouse it's just simple game for me. If I wanted to play something what looks realistic I would choose some newer game to play, like MW3.

Jitspoe should talk to people what they prefer and he should  be able to comply them. If he will not, they will rather use Sunman's hr4.
So you refuse to play games like MW3 because the textures look realistic?

Aveiro

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Re: Official HR4 (High-Resolution, 4x) Texture Pack - WIP
« Reply #201 on: August 06, 2013, 01:31:14 PM »
Nevermind, I tried with my english and now I know you dont understand what I tried to say.

For me are your textures still ugly but in high resolution. You cant make them better only if you make them in high res. Who cares if your textures looks realistic if they look horrible on the map.

If you aiming for more detailed textures, you missed in my opinion.You should try to make some new nicier textures, not only try to improve the old one. You doing these textures for people not only for you, becouse you will never use them in match. Give active players chance say if they would rather use dark/light, smooth/gross textures. Sunman brought something new with his textures and people like it. So you should try too.

I tried to say that if I wanted to play some visual nice realistic game i would play MW3 and not Paintball2. Paintball 2 isnt realistic game at all.

I know you will not listen to my opinion but I tried atleast. Good luck with making next textures, but I know i will probably not like them.


jitspoe

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Re: Official HR4 (High-Resolution, 4x) Texture Pack - WIP
« Reply #202 on: August 06, 2013, 02:26:27 PM »
I am listening, but all you keep saying is broad generalizations that the textures are "ugly".  You need to be a lot more specific.  Pick a single texture you don't like say specifically what you don't like about it, and what should be changed to improve it.

Smacker

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Re: Official HR4 (High-Resolution, 4x) Texture Pack - WIP
« Reply #203 on: August 06, 2013, 02:36:45 PM »
When I look on your textures, I feel like there are too many distracting factors that you notice every time you are playing a map like wooden walls on propaint1. I have a feeling like I am trapped in some wooden box. When I am playing, I prefer smaller smoother pattern so when I am running it must feel the right way which I can not explain. When I was playing few maps with your textures, I had the same problem as in Guild Wars 2, where colours of the environment are too dark, so after an hour of playing I feel sleepy just after watching the game. Paintball is very fast game, and just the view of the map has to make you feel more energic. Thats why I prefer lighter textures that do not make me feel like I am playing in the evening with lights off.

MyeRs

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Re: Official HR4 (High-Resolution, 4x) Texture Pack - WIP
« Reply #204 on: August 06, 2013, 03:45:54 PM »
Honestly I think a big problem is to much trying to mirror the original texture rather than improve it. I understand the purpose of mirroring it, but it doesn't give a big enough improvement. I see most of your rocks as good - just some a big oversized. But I can't stand the grasses. General complaint: They seem to be not scaled down enough. It looks weird having a flat surface with long strands of grass. Makes it too busy and unappealing.

Most peoples arguments are: Stop trying to make the game look realistic, when it's an unrealistic game. Most people don't play quake games for realism, as the physics themselves aren't real.

I agree and disagree with that argument. But regardless, they should realize you picked to go with a realistic look, and they should be trying to give input on that realistic look.

I'll try to give specific examples of what I dislike over the next week.

Foxhound

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Re: Official HR4 (High-Resolution, 4x) Texture Pack - WIP
« Reply #205 on: August 06, 2013, 04:08:46 PM »
How bout just hop off the band wagon and admit they are nice?

Aveiro

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Re: Official HR4 (High-Resolution, 4x) Texture Pack - WIP
« Reply #206 on: August 06, 2013, 04:29:55 PM »
How bout just hop off the band wagon and admit they are nice?

Are you freaking serious? Did you ever play with them? Or you are another clever forum reader?

Foxhound

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Re: Official HR4 (High-Resolution, 4x) Texture Pack - WIP
« Reply #207 on: August 06, 2013, 05:23:14 PM »
I play with what was given to me when i downloaded the game build 38. Everything is crisp, rocks look like rocks, grass looks like grass, and the wood looks like its straight from a tree.The only texture I ever used that were different were ice, sand and grass (which didn't even sub out ALL of the textures for every map). How is realistic ugly? so you're saying real life is ugly, so you're basically saying you're emo?

I never changed barrels.. (why would you, they are the same color as the team, not Light or sky blue), I never changed the wood, because why would I other than to gain an advantage? I changed my grass only because i thought reaver's neon green was better than blotchy brown grass, which i might add, has been fixed in the high res pack to look nicer.\

« Last Edit: August 06, 2013, 05:49:26 PM by Foxhound »

Cameron

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Re: Official HR4 (High-Resolution, 4x) Texture Pack - WIP
« Reply #208 on: August 06, 2013, 06:06:38 PM »
Are you freaking serious? Did you ever play with them? Or you are another clever forum reader?
Love it how you treat us as if we don't play anymore.

luckmore

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Re: Official HR4 (High-Resolution, 4x) Texture Pack - WIP
« Reply #209 on: August 07, 2013, 05:06:19 AM »
I play with what was given to me when i downloaded the game build 38. Everything is crisp, rocks look like rocks, grass looks like grass, and the wood looks like its straight from a tree.The only texture I ever used that were different were ice, sand and grass (which didn't even sub out ALL of the textures for every map). How is realistic ugly? so you're saying real life is ugly, so you're basically saying you're emo?

I never changed barrels.. (why would you, they are the same color as the team, not Light or sky blue), I never changed the wood, because why would I other than to gain an advantage? I changed my grass only because i thought reaver's neon green was better than blotchy brown grass, which i might add, has been fixed in the high res pack to look nicer.\



Its a non-realistic game where you can fly across the map. So you have to expect that the textures dont look realistic.

Foxhound

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Re: Official HR4 (High-Resolution, 4x) Texture Pack - WIP
« Reply #210 on: August 07, 2013, 07:27:48 AM »
You wouldn't expect anything if jitspoe never made the game mod-able for anyone...

Chalk

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Re: Official HR4 (High-Resolution, 4x) Texture Pack - WIP
« Reply #211 on: August 07, 2013, 08:18:53 AM »
How is this even an argument? I do like sunmans textures, because it gives the game a much cleaner look, but I use jitspoe's because the game should look how the developer intends it to look. If you don't think white grass, and light blue barrels matched with dark blue models provides an advantage over those using the regular/official hr4 textures, then you're an idiot...

Smacker

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Re: Official HR4 (High-Resolution, 4x) Texture Pack - WIP
« Reply #212 on: August 07, 2013, 02:39:17 PM »
So you think you are not able to see player standing in front of the barrels? Or blue/red player standing on green grass? If you are colour blind, you might have a problem to distinguish colours, but like the most of the community I think difference between green and blue/red is pretty big.

Chalk

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Re: Official HR4 (High-Resolution, 4x) Texture Pack - WIP
« Reply #213 on: August 07, 2013, 03:01:59 PM »
So you think you are not able to see player standing in front of the barrels? Or blue/red player standing on green grass? If you are colour blind, you might have a problem to distinguish colours, but like the most of the community I think difference between green and blue/red is pretty big.

White to blue and green to blue is a pretty big difference...

I don't know where you read that I couldn't see the models on green grass lol..

jitspoe

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Re: Official HR4 (High-Resolution, 4x) Texture Pack - WIP
« Reply #214 on: August 07, 2013, 04:08:40 PM »
I think I finally understand the arguments that some of you are trying to make.  It's not that the official textures are ugly, per se, it's that they have more visual information/noise that make it more straining to play.

There are a few reasons for that.  The biggest one being that the map geometry and lightmaps are very low-def and blocky.  The textures need a lot of, well, texture to cover that up.  I am legitimately trying to come up with a set of textures that makes the game, as it currently stands, look as good as it can.  When textures are very flat, they tend to highlight the low map polygon count and blocky lightmaps, making the game look very dated or just flat out bad.

Another reason is lighting.  If a texture is flat, it can end up looking completely washed out in bright light.  If there is a lot of detail and darker shadows, though, it still maintains some definition.

Tiling is also a big issue.  It's probably the most difficult one to address.  Normally, textures should really be used for small areas and be broken up by different bits of geometry to avoid obvious tiling.  Most paintball2 maps, however, have giant spans of just one single texture, like the walls in propaint1.  They don't really make sense (where do you get 300ft/100m wide solid boards?), but the textures need to support that.  What that typically means is reducing the macro detail in favor of a more uniform micro detail.  Textures need a dense, uniform coat of rust, dirt, grain, etc. to make the glaring repeating patterns.

Finally, I'm trying to push the paintball theme.  Nearly everything on a paintball field is worn, weathered, dirty, etc.  I realize not everybody agrees with that direction, but this is a paintball game.

Regarding the "stop trying to make it look realistic" comments, this just seems silly to me.  Not because people are arguing for a stylized texture set, but because the people complaining about it are using textures that are made from photographs.  Many of these were poorly manipulated to tile and have glaring tiling pattern issues.  This neither looks stylized nor realistic.  It just looks bad.

As for oversized grass, the problem tends to be that if the grass is scaled down to realistic proportions, the blades are just like 1 pixel, so it ends up just being a green noise texture, which doesn't really look good either.  Most of the alternative texture packs have large grass blades as well.  Plus, when you're zooming around the map at crazy height and speeds, it kind of gives you the visuals that you would see as a normal human walking on grass, so doesn't that kind of fall under the category of not making textures realistic, but catered to the game?  That said, if you can give me some specific examples, they can probably be tweaked without too much difficulty.  On another grass note, I've noticed that a lot of texture packs (or maybe just specific players) replace all the grass in the game with the same texture.  What's the point in having different textures then?  Now there's no variation -- might as well make everything look the same.

One final note on the straining/distraction factor.  Isn't switching to a texture set that reduces this pretty much define unfair advantage?  If the background textures are less distracting, that means it's easier to see players.  If you're selecting textures explicitly for this purpose, then you're not really picking what looks best, you're picking what makes it easiest for you to play.  Where do you draw the line?  Textures with less detail are less distracting than textures with lots of strongly defined detail.  Textures that are a completely solid, flat color are less distracting than any texture.  Where do you draw the line?

Please give feedback to help make textures that make the game look better.

TiMe2ChilL

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Re: Official HR4 (High-Resolution, 4x) Texture Pack - WIP
« Reply #215 on: August 07, 2013, 04:50:48 PM »
Quote
One final note on the straining/distraction factor.  Isn't switching to a texture set that reduces this pretty much define unfair advantage?  If the background textures are less distracting, that means it's easier to see players.  If you're selecting textures explicitly for this purpose, then you're not really picking what looks best, you're picking what makes it easiest for you to play.  Where do you draw the line?  Textures with less detail are less distracting than textures with lots of strongly defined detail.  Textures that are a completely solid, flat color are less distracting than any texture.  Where do you draw the line?
When it comes to competetive play, people usually tend to play with rather ugly graphics in order to gain as much advantages as possible.

My quakelive looks excrement compared to what it could look like.Even my crosshair is only a red dot (so i can see it better on the uni-neon-green colored keel skins). I play sc2 and LoL on lowest possible, either.
When I try to be good at a game, I usually do so, because I like the gameplay, not the looks. As a result, I try everything the game allows me to do, to make things easier so I can fully focus on getting better at the game, rather than suffering from lags, fps drops or almost invisible player skins.
But then again, quakelive easily allows you to do so, while newbs in this game do not necessarily know that

luckmore

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Re: Official HR4 (High-Resolution, 4x) Texture Pack - WIP
« Reply #216 on: August 07, 2013, 05:06:30 PM »
I think I finally understand the arguments that some of you are trying to make.  It's not that the official textures are ugly, per se, it's that they have more visual information/noise that make it more straining to play.

There are a few reasons for that.  The biggest one being that the map geometry and lightmaps are very low-def and blocky.  The textures need a lot of, well, texture to cover that up.  I am legitimately trying to come up with a set of textures that makes the game, as it currently stands, look as good as it can.  When textures are very flat, they tend to highlight the low map polygon count and blocky lightmaps, making the game look very dated or just flat out bad.

Another reason is lighting.  If a texture is flat, it can end up looking completely washed out in bright light.  If there is a lot of detail and darker shadows, though, it still maintains some definition.

Tiling is also a big issue.  It's probably the most difficult one to address.  Normally, textures should really be used for small areas and be broken up by different bits of geometry to avoid obvious tiling.  Most paintball2 maps, however, have giant spans of just one single texture, like the walls in propaint1.  They don't really make sense (where do you get 300ft/100m wide solid boards?), but the textures need to support that.  What that typically means is reducing the macro detail in favor of a more uniform micro detail.  Textures need a dense, uniform coat of rust, dirt, grain, etc. to make the glaring repeating patterns.

Finally, I'm trying to push the paintball theme.  Nearly everything on a paintball field is worn, weathered, dirty, etc.  I realize not everybody agrees with that direction, but this is a paintball game.

Regarding the "stop trying to make it look realistic" comments, this just seems silly to me.  Not because people are arguing for a stylized texture set, but because the people complaining about it are using textures that are made from photographs.  Many of these were poorly manipulated to tile and have glaring tiling pattern issues.  This neither looks stylized nor realistic.  It just looks bad.

As for oversized grass, the problem tends to be that if the grass is scaled down to realistic proportions, the blades are just like 1 pixel, so it ends up just being a green noise texture, which doesn't really look good either.  Most of the alternative texture packs have large grass blades as well.  Plus, when you're zooming around the map at crazy height and speeds, it kind of gives you the visuals that you would see as a normal human walking on grass, so doesn't that kind of fall under the category of not making textures realistic, but catered to the game?  That said, if you can give me some specific examples, they can probably be tweaked without too much difficulty.  On another grass note, I've noticed that a lot of texture packs (or maybe just specific players) replace all the grass in the game with the same texture.  What's the point in having different textures then?  Now there's no variation -- might as well make everything look the same.

One final note on the straining/distraction factor.  Isn't switching to a texture set that reduces this pretty much define unfair advantage?  If the background textures are less distracting, that means it's easier to see players.  If you're selecting textures explicitly for this purpose, then you're not really picking what looks best, you're picking what makes it easiest for you to play.  Where do you draw the line?  Textures with less detail are less distracting than textures with lots of strongly defined detail.  Textures that are a completely solid, flat color are less distracting than any texture.  Where do you draw the line?

Please give feedback to help make textures that make the game look better.

Thats good to hear! I will post some maps later and give 'constructive' feedback.
Well, i will try to.

Smacker

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Re: Official HR4 (High-Resolution, 4x) Texture Pack - WIP
« Reply #217 on: August 07, 2013, 05:52:56 PM »

Finally, I'm trying to push the paintball theme.  Nearly everything on a paintball field is worn, weathered, dirty, etc.  I realize not everybody agrees with that direction, but this is a paintball game.


If you are trying to make a "paintball" game, first thing to do so is to try a new engine. With queake2 jump bug is this game more like high speed flying shooter. Only familliar thing with paintball is one shot - you are dead.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/713/4vse.jpg/


http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/829/j0y9.jpg/

When I compare these two textures of the grass, I do not see any difference between spotting the player. He is just there if the texture is brigt or dark. Only a blind person could miss him.
So when I am speaking about the grass texture,  your official texture just feel uncomfortable whet it is passing by under player. Maybe you like the static look, but once you start running it looks horrible.

And another texture - http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/845/fuuq.jpg/

When I am hanging on the ladder like this, I can not really keep my eyes focused on the base high because of the ladder detailed texture. It is not because the texture is awesome but because there is too many dark/light passages that are distracting my eyes. I think this texture is used for the spawn doors on propaint1 too, so you might change the texture to fit both objects.


Foxhound

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Re: Official HR4 (High-Resolution, 4x) Texture Pack - WIP
« Reply #218 on: August 07, 2013, 09:20:39 PM »
LOL i can't focus when im on ladder because your ladder texture is so EW. give me a break. I have never NOT ONCE lost focus in a match because a side part of my brain went, Omg why would jitspoe use this? this is aweful. You must be part of the fab 5 interior decorators to be that anal while trying to shoot paintballs at someone.

On a side note, people like brighter textures because it puts less stress on the brain. Everything blends better, IE advantage over others. It's just something your brain does naturally.

Cameron

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Re: Official HR4 (High-Resolution, 4x) Texture Pack - WIP
« Reply #219 on: August 07, 2013, 09:39:31 PM »
Brightness can also strain eyes though, and that first sshot is too bright.

Jitspoes textures have the person harder to spot from what I can see.  Also, isn't a game like paintball or any FPS game like this meant to be somewhere you can blend in, not be seen easily?

With the ladder, the texture is great, the scaling is just wrong.