I Hate Linux (32bit Support)

[jitspoe]

It never ceases to amaze me how every time I try to use linux, I get blocked by the most trivial things and have to spend hours trying to figure them out.

There's a crash bug in Paintball2 that I have not been able to reproduce on my laptop, so I put Ubuntu on a USB drive to try out on various other computers.

I get it up and running, drivers installed, etc., and when I try to run Paintball2, I get the error "No such file or directory."  Well, that's cryptic, considering there IS a file called "paintball2".  I search around a bit and find that this is due to lack of 32bit support with the default package.  Who had that brilliant idea?!  "Let's just not have backward compatibility for the last 15 years of applications."

Whatever.  Seems like it should be  easy to fix.  The thing that always gets me about these types of issues, though, is that when I search for solutions, 90% of the things I find are people asking the same questions and never getting a real solution.  The one thing I found suggested getting "ia32-libs", but apparently that doesn't exist anymore...

ubuntu@ubuntu:~/Desktop/paintball2$ sudo apt-get install ia32-libs
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Package ia32-libs is not available, but is referred to by another package.
This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or
is only available from another source
However the following packages replace it:
  lib32bz2-1.0 lib32z1 lib32ncurses5 lib32asound2
E: Package ia32-libs has no installation candidate

Why does everything have to be so retardedly difficult?


Edit: More fun.  I installed "lib32ncurses5" which seemed to fix the issue partially, but:

LoadLibrary("ref_pbgl.so") failed: libX11.so.6: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory

So...

ubuntu@ubuntu:~/Desktop/paintball2$ ldd ref_pbgl.so
   linux-gate.so.1 =>  (0xf7762000)
   libX11.so.6 => not found
   libXext.so.6 => not found
   libXxf86vm.so.1 => not found
   libGL.so.1 => /usr/lib32/nvidia-current/libGL.so.1 (0xf7416000)
   libjpeg.so.62 => not found
   libpng12.so.0 => not found
   libc.so.6 => /lib32/libc.so.6 (0xf72bc000)
   libGLcore.so.1 => /usr/lib32/nvidia-current/libGLcore.so.1 (0xf5cab000)
   libnvidia-tls.so.1 => /usr/lib32/nvidia-current/tls/libnvidia-tls.so.1 (0xf5ca9000)
   libm.so.6 => /lib32/libm.so.6 (0xf5c83000)
   libXext.so.6 => not found
   libX11.so.6 => not found
   libdl.so.2 => /lib32/libdl.so.2 (0xf5c7e000)
   /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0xf7763000)
ubuntu@ubuntu:~/Desktop/paintball2$ sudo apt-get install libX11-6
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
libx11-6 is already the newest version.
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.

*sigh*

[ViciouZ]

Yeah, basically, just get a 32 bit distro and cope with your limited RAM. It's much easier to get working, trust me, I had the same problems.

[jitspoe]

I don't see why they seemingly intentionally make it difficult to run 32bit programs. 99+% of programs don't need to be 64bit.  Almost no single application uses more than 4 gigs of ram.  Forcing things to be 64bit just seems like a waste.  Also, I'm not going to bother maintaining 2 linux versions of Paintball2.

[yossarianuk]

Hey Jitspoe.

Firstly - Are you running Ubuntu 11.04 (natty) ?

The package ia32-libs does exist - see - http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/ia32-libs  (I have it installed on my 11.04 amd64 install at work..)

It sounds like apt isn't aware of the universe repo - Are you running directly off the USB stick rather than installing to HD ?

-> if so (or if not)  check the /etc/apt/sources.list file  

- You need the universe and multiverse repo's enabled (which they are not be default if running from the CD or you install without a new connection (may be wrong on the 2nd bit..)

I would install ia32-libs pre installing the nvidia driver..

I have included my sources.list file in case this helps (try replacing yours (backup 1st) with mine and try to install again - one thing I learnt recently is you can't have a space at the start of the repo line or apt ignores it...

check you have universe/multiverse enabled then

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install ia32-libs



------------------------------------

deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ natty main restricted
deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ natty main restricted

## Major bug fix updates produced after the final release of the
## distribution.
deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ natty-updates main restricted
deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ natty-updates main restricted

## N.B. software from this repository is ENTIRELY UNSUPPORTED by the Ubuntu
## team. Also, please note that software in universe WILL NOT receive any
## review or updates from the Ubuntu security team.
deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ natty universe
deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ natty universe
deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ natty-updates universe
deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ natty-updates universe

## N.B. software from this repository is ENTIRELY UNSUPPORTED by the Ubuntu
## team, and may not be under a free licence. Please satisfy yourself as to
## your rights to use the software. Also, please note that software in
## multiverse WILL NOT receive any review or updates from the Ubuntu
## security team.
deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ natty multiverse
deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ natty multiverse
deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ natty-updates multiverse
deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ natty-updates multiverse

## Uncomment the following two lines to add software from the 'backports'
## repository.
## N.B. software from this repository may not have been tested as
## extensively as that contained in the main release, although it includes
## newer versions of some applications which may provide useful features.
## Also, please note that software in backports WILL NOT receive any review                                                                                
## or updates from the Ubuntu security team.
# deb http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ natty-backports main restricted universe multiverse
# deb-src http://gb.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ natty-backports main restricted universe multiverse

deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu natty-security main restricted
deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu natty-security main restricted
deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu natty-security universe
deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu natty-security universe
deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu natty-security multiverse
deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu natty-security multiverse

## Uncomment the following two lines to add software from Canonical's
## 'partner' repository.
## This software is not part of Ubuntu, but is offered by Canonical and the
## respective vendors as a service to Ubuntu users.
deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu natty partner
deb-src http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu natty partner

## This software is not part of Ubuntu, but is offered by third-party
## developers who want to ship their latest software.
deb http://extras.ubuntu.com/ubuntu natty main
deb-src http://extras.ubuntu.com/ubuntu natty main
-------------------------------

[jitspoe]

ubuntu-10.04.2-desktop-amd64.iso - That's what I got.  I'm running it directly off of the USB stick.  I didn't change any of the sources lists - I'm just using what was included.  Shouldn't that just work correctly out of the box?  How is a new user supposed to know that a "File not found" error means they have to edit some sources list file in order to be able to download some library that should have just been there to start out with?  Kind of ridiculous.

[yossarianuk]

Hey Jitspoe. the live cd only enables main and restricted (or just main) by default - the universe and multiverse repo lines are there, they are commented out..

Check /etc/apt/sources.list and uncomment the universe/multiverse lines then

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install ia32-libs

- you should then get the missing 32bit libs.

The issue would not occur had you installed it - its only whilst running off the live cd/usb stick will the sources.list be missing the repos. (they are commented out)

The distro's that the nvidia driver works out the box are a godsend....(pclinuxos for example)

From my experience running 32bit apps in 64bit in Linux is generally easier  (as long as you have 32bit libs) than winblows..

I have not seen the file not found issue though and will admit that is silly error (although I normally have 32bit libs installed) - normally it is obvious if your missing a 32bit lib by the error message, but perhaps if you don't have the core 32bit libs you do not...

If your still unsure about sources.list check this site for a sources.list generator.

http://repogen.simplylinux.ch/

(only enable 'Ubuntu Branches' (all) and 'Ubuntu Updates' (all) and if you want flash/java also 'Ubuntu Partner Repos')

let me know if you still need assistance.  


Cheers

[jitspoe]

Ok, I think that got me the missing libs.  Odd that he Ubuntu team does not support 32bit libraries in their 64bit distro.  This seems like pretty basic functionality.

[yossarianuk]

Glad you got it sorted.

Its not that 32bit is not supported in 64bit Ubuntu its just not available 'out the box' - other distro's it is (i.e opensuse.)

In the Linux world (unlike windows) most app's are natively 64bit (in fact the only 32bit apps I use are paintball2 and enemy territory )  so there is not as much need to support 32 bit out the box in this day and age - most commercial linux games now release a 64bit binary now (not that I care as I only play paintball now...)

Also the 64bit bonus is not just the +4GB limit there are other optimisations - for example -

http://www.tuxradar.com/content/ubuntu-904-32-bit-vs-64-bit-benchmarks

[jitspoe]

Those examples look like they've had additional optimizations done for the 64bit versions.  If you just take a 32bit app and compile it for 64bit, there's almost no improvement, and the 64bit version is usually slower:

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=616&num=2
http://www.osnews.com/story/5768/Are_64-bit_Binaries_Really_Slower_than_32-bit_Binaries_/page2/

The other downside to 64bit is that you're using twice as much memory for pointers.  If the application isn't actually using more than 4 gigs of memory, this is just wasted.  If you have 4 gigs of system memory and a 64bit processor, I think you'd be better off with a 32bit OS.  I'd be interested to see memory benchmarks on some 32bit vs 64bit programs as well.

[jitspoe]

There is nothing that has gotten me closer to physically destroying a computer than Linux.  I just don't get it.  How can it manage to find something new to fail at every time I boot it up?  I was going to try debugging that issue some more, and I fire up the version of Ubuntu that was working just fine and dandy a few days ago, and it says "Networking disabled."  For no apparent reason, it's decided it won't utilize my wireless.  *sigh*  I feel I won't be getting anything done tonight, either.

[Spook]

You should give up until people start helping you out with everything that's been going on.

[yossarianuk]

Let me know if you want help diagnosing network issues...

It this a live version or installed ? Do you need to install a separate driver for wireless (or does it normally work out the box)...

Can you see the device with

sudo ifconfig ?

I went through a few wireless nightmares in the past - however always managed to sort it out - Ubuntu was always in some way annoying...

Although I live in a house with really thick walls that just suck for wireless anyway (I could barely play this game in any OS (including winblows) when using wireless (G/N150/N300 - all suck)

I have since seen the light and discovered powerline networking which is so much better for gaming and general life...  I will never ever go back to wireless

[jitspoe]

I got it fixed - after a few searches, editing files and running commands, I realized all I had to do was right-click on the network thing and re-enable it.  I could have sworn I tried that first, but I guess I was just left clicking to bring up the "Networking disabled" message.

[SpeedUSA]

I'll be happy to help with the Linux testing. I'm a Debian fanboy, but can install/multiboot with Ubuntu, CentOS or any other distro. I've also got a spare virtual private server (VPS), and can quickly set up a 32- or 64-bit server for expanded beta testing.

This is a frustrating time for Linux users used to DIY configuring. Developers are trying to make Linux a "better" OS by increasing automatic hardware detection/installation. The OS will not always get it right, and even fail to re-initiate hardware that worked the time before. Furthermore, fixing the problem is difficult - the configuration files or tools you need are no longer there because the process is supposed to be flawlessly automatic. Grrrr!

LongShot