Build 33

[Olbaid]

Seems pretty dumb.

[Mayhem]

Seems pretty dumb.

As you can all see by the demos posted... This update will ruin the ability to play a majority of maps, if not completely destroy the matching scene entirely.

This update should not be implemented, if possible I would like to request a feature vote to NOT implement this.

I see a large number of older players in the active match scene leaving if this goes through, most likely including myself.

- Build 33, digging a grave for DP.

[joonas]

Seems pretty dumb.

On the second demo, you should jump right before the ramp and then hold down on the jump key if you want to jump normally.

Edit: Have you guys noticed that you can jump into almost any direction from a ramp? It's fun

[Foxhound]

also joonas another problem with that jump (even if he did do it correctly) is that even without hitting the side of the ramp, your head hits hbd so you cant even speed to 2

[Rocky]

yeah go ahead ruin the game more !! first ruin sounds now ruin the jumpin what next ?

[Rocky]

wont be playin if this excrement goes through

[joonas]

also joonas another problem with that jump (even if he did do it correctly) is that even without hitting the side of the ramp, your head hits hbd so you cant even speed to 2

I'm not sure what you mean by hbd or 2, but you won't hit the ceiling or anything as long as you don't jump from the ramp itself. You can't glide on ramps with the doublejump script though, so you'll have to get rid of it if you want to try it out.

[Foxhound]

I'm not sure what you mean by hbd or 2, but you won't hit the ceiling or anything as long as you don't jump from the ramp itself. You can't glide on ramps with the doublejump script though, so you'll have to get rid of it if you want to try it out.

if you can't glide up ramps than it's impossible to do speed in the first place ^^ and yes you can with a double jump you just have to time it better and have it jump once before the ramp, but that's besides the point. my point is that the extra speed gained from the ramp is now propelling you higher causing you to hit your head on the wall by the gap, and the high back door area in pp1.

i made a demo to show you

[Tyrone(MyeRs)]

Propaint1:

Speedjump to cat (or above cat "banner") is ridiculously easy, going to be a capfest. You get so much air out of window.

Ice - to hbd seems pretty similar to before, it's just awkward to do.

Ice - to 2 - I couldn't get even once. When I hit the ramp I'd get air instead of speed... and go up and hit my head.... without ice to ladder2(Flag ladder) on PP1 (as Foxhound mentioned) - didn't watch Olbaid's demo, just went and tried some jumps on pp1 with the new physics. You get way to much air, and PP1 will be unplayable.

Prolandr:

Going out BD (left of flag 1) - speed through window - then over waterfall and just float on that sky and get to 1 or 2 ---- That wont help gameplay having people flying on sky. That map would have to be reworked in order to stay playable.

Pforest:

Of random things you get a lot of air - and going out hill/hump to wet, doing the speedjump you can 'glide' along the ceiling into dry - seems dumb to glide that long.

Those are the only maps I've looked at so far - I'll probs look at more later. Basically you get too much speed off nothing, DJ's are ridiculously easy, and sky gliding ruins most maps. Can't mappers just make their maps properly so you never hit a sky  --- or is it possible for the sky to be like... "bigger"? so you can actually go into it kind of, I don't really know how to explain it, but basically so it never impedes your speed, but doesn't let you glide off it either - if anyone understands that and wants to explain it better, please do.

[Ace]

Seems pretty dumb.

-All the jumps are still very from the ice jump, if anything they are harder now so less people will be able to do them.
-The main speed jump was doable before the update anyways, it's just easier now

[SuperMAn]

Should not be making changes to the game engine to compensate poorly made maps.  

- or is it possible for the sky to be like... "bigger"? so you can actually go into it kind of, I don't really know how to explain it, but basically so it never impedes your speed, but doesn't let you glide off it either - if anyone understands that and wants to explain it better, please do.

I might be wrong here.. but all mappers would have to do is add a few feet to the top of their walls and give it the same texture as the sky.  
This would give the sky some depth, instead of just being a thin ceiling with a texture.

This > skygliding.


My opinion is that this update should just be scrapped.

[Olbaid]

-All the jumps are still very from the ice jump, if anything they are harder now so less people will be able to do them.
-The main speed jump was doable before the update anyways, it's just easier now

Never said they were not possible, but you should not have to hold jump while strafing on the ice, or need to jump before the ramp and hold it down.

I'm pretty sure you could never speed to that ledge before, but ok SpookJr.

If I'm understanding this correctly, this was implemented to benefit newbies.  What I don't get is how a new person is supposed to know that he/she needs to hold down +moveup while on any ramp.  

In conclusion

Seems pretty dumb.

[Ace]

Never said they were not possible, but you should not have to hold jump while strafing on the ice, or need to jump before the ramp and hold it down.

True Story, it makes it harder, but for no good reason other than having to press more buttons.

[joonas]

Tweaks that I think I'd like to see (4th one isn't as important):

1. Re-implement skipping down on nonslippery slopes
2. Make doublejumping from stairs possible
3. Make doublejumping from ramps impossible
4. Lower the height of waterjumps by almost half
5. Drop sounds and effects should only take diagonal speed into account

Other stuff I've noticed or thought of:

- Going outside the map while in observer mode looks buggy. I think that the outside of the map isn't being rendered with the sky texture anymore, which is how it worked several builds ago, if I remember correctly.
- The volume of the falling down sounds should scale according to how fast you're falling. The idea here is to make low drops not sound as dramatic. Just so it's clear, I'm against increasing the volume from what it is right now, it should be the highest volume.
- Make people who are inside of each other die if they're shot, and if the paintball hits both of them at the same time, both of them should die.
- Teleporting into another player shouldn't be any different from spawning into another player. With the way it works now, teleporting makes you get stuck.

[yossarianuk]

any news on the linux client ?

[T3RR0R15T]

No. Maybe jitspoe want to make an xmas release and waits for it or he is looking at the cvs changes for build 34 first or he forgot this thread / has no time.

[jitspoe]

has no time.

This.  Been crunching at work for a while (staying past midnight some nights).

Should not be making changes to the game engine to compensate poorly made maps.

What about keeping old bugs that are detrimental to potential future map designs purely to compensate poorly made maps?

I might be wrong here.. but all mappers would have to do is add a few feet to the top of their walls and give it the same texture as the sky. 
This would give the sky some depth, instead of just being a thin ceiling with a texture.

This > skygliding.

Better, sure, but you'd still be able to reach all of the areas you could with sky gliding, which seems to be the biggest complaint (new shortcuts).  You'd be gaining a bunch of height, too, which would make you an even harder target.  Also, who is going to update the maps, and who is going to get the server admins to replace them?

any news on the linux client ?

Probably won't happen 'til the new year.  Sorry.

Seems pretty dumb.

What's "sad" about being able to reach a point you would have been able to if you didn't hit your head on an invisible ceiling?

my point is that the extra speed gained from the ramp is now propelling you higher causing you to hit your head on the wall by the gap, and the high back door area in pp1.

i made a demo to show you

Are you clipping the steeper part of the ramp or something?  I'm not seeing this issue (demo attached).  If you're holding the jump key down, the physics should behave exactly like the old physics on slopes, so you're not going to get extra speed gained on ramps (though you will from the jump).

What I don't get is how a new person is supposed to know that he/she needs to hold down +moveup while on any ramp. 

How are they supposed to know that turning at just the right angular velocity proportional to their current transitional velocity is going to make them accelerate while in the air?  With all of the weird nuances in the movement physics, holding jump to skip and slide up hills seems intuitive.  Having an intro tutorial map for first time players would certainly help.

Ice - to 2 - I couldn't get even once.

I actually find the high BD ramp easier when jumping (demo attached).

yeah go ahead ruin the game more !! first ruin sounds now ruin the jumpin what next ?

If you have specific feedback about the sounds, post it here so I can improve them:
http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=16120.0
Saying they're "ruined" is just useless complaining and doesn't help anything.

Have you tried playing with the physics tweaks?  A lot of bugs/inconsistencies are fixed.  If you have specific issues, post a demo.

it's like adding a boost for noobs who can't get air, like adding 2 extra back wheels on a bike to keep balance.

More like tightening the nuts and bolts so the bike doesn't fall apart when you hit certain speeds/slopes.  I haven't added any boosts.  I've just tried to make the behavior more consistent.  As a result, you can more consistently double/triple+ jump, but the jumps themselves don't go any faster.

I think that it would be better if the players would always skip down on slopes (except on icy slopes).

I disagree.  The slope skipping pretty much makes it impossible to have a map with realistic terrain where you need specifically timed jumps.

its more or less speeding up and over ramps. you gain so much more height and speed. i find myself hitting my head on the maps.

Could you post a demo of where you're gaining more speed on ramps?

I kind of like this one but it deffinitley is something you couldn't do before.

Water double jump... interesting.  Does it happen in all maps, or just where the water meets up flat with the edge?  I might have to do something to disable jumping while you're water jumping.

Good example of new physics having a noticeable effect.

Insane speed boost on 2fort5. Easy to reproduce. Demo attached.

zzz.....hibernation...zzzz

Interesting find.  That looks like a legitimate bug.  Seems you're boosting off of the angled ceiling for some reason.  Does this happen on any other maps?  Looks like you need a specific combination of slope angle and ceiling height.

[Ace]

Good example of new physics having a noticeable effect.

Insane speed boost on 2fort5. Easy to reproduce. Demo attached.

zzz.....hibernation...zzzz

-I've noticed that speed boost on a few maps with that kind of set up.
-The other similar problem I have seen is if it has that sort of ceiling, and then has a gap on one side that goes up, you sort of "catch" on the lower ceiling and it makes it hard to move up the new ramp. I'll try to get a demo when I find the map.

[joonas]

I might have to do something to disable jumping while you're water jumping.

Some jump maps are designed to have waterjumps.

[Foxhound]

@jitspoe,

didn’t feel like cutting off the ends of that long ass post so I just copied and pasted this


Quote from: cusoman on December 06, 2011, 10:48:54 PM
Good example of new physics having a noticeable effect.

Insane speed boost on 2fort5. Easy to reproduce. Demo attached.

zzz.....hibernation...zzzz
Interesting find.  That looks like a legitimate bug.  Seems you're boosting off of the angled ceiling for some reason.  Does this happen on any other maps?  Looks like you need a specific combination of slope angle and ceiling height.

MY GUESS is it’s not the ceiling you’re boosting from; it’s the ceiling that is keeping your feet touching the ramp thus giving you the big speed increase like we said  it’s the same with all ramps. The ramps that I can think of off the top of my head areeee, like olbaid demoed, the window jump in pp1 where he flew across the map after gain speed and height and landed on the strip, ill admit, I barely make the cat sometimes but I easily reproduced what he did with new physics. The ice jump in pp1 (even while holding down the space bar, which isn’t the problem) you gain speed and height (again height is the key word) and hit your head on the high back door wooden wall by gap (which I demoed). And yes the water jump happens on all maps, demo enclosed.