Cusoman's ban

[MyeRs]

First off, this isn't a thread to attempt to support cheaters or "friends" - I'm well aware of what the distribution ban is - I'm trying to put things in perspective between people with similar cases, but far different outcomes. The one's who got the beneficial outcomes, did the least for the community. I'm only bringing it up, because all of the other distributors in this case seemed to get special treatment, and another chance. Since this is going to be long... I'll do some headings:

CUSO CASE:

Cuso was banned about 3+ years ago for 64 days (2nd offence, his first offence was within his first few weeks of playing, trying to change the colour of smoke) -- for modified content - wallhacks. A large group of people (specifically SuMMit's entire vent) got banned for this, because it spread around. From what I know, Cuso admitted to giving it out to 2 people, but only ended up receiving a 64 day ban, a few other distributors got caught. Cuso got his ban for this 3 years later (last summer), 3/5 other distributors from this group are currently playing, 1 of them has less than 100 days left, and then there's Cuso with 318 days left.

CASE1:

The person who, as far as I knew, actually created the cheat and taught Cusoman how to create it (This is just what I was told back then, people's stories have changed in the last 3 years), but only gave it to 1-3 people, got banned for 1024 days for distribution. People (especially committee members at the time) were fighting for him a lot, and eventually ended up getting unbanned after "200-300ish" days. The argument I heard in his favor, was that he helped the community, mostly in map making.

CASE2:

A person requested for a specific ban time, (which was below the standard 1024 days), and received it. He used the cheats too. Then, pretty shortly after getting banned, he evaded (thus creating a multiple account), got away with it for some time (it was originally assumed to be Shk, then moved to almost everyone else possible). A while later, he admitted to evading, but denied ever distributing, so he got his ban reduced to just a 64day ban due to the committee not having anything other then him admitting before, as proof.

CASE3:

A guy cheated, gave them out, got banned, raged about the game, spammed cheats all over forums, continued for months after being banned to spam cheats and create websites that gave out cheats/explained how to use them, with his brother... bought a new computer recently and came back claiming to be a new brother that was never around before. Even though everyone talks to him by his old name, somehow it's a good enough excuse to not get re-banned.

CASE4:

A guy cheated a lot, distributed, got banned, spammed cheats on forums, joined in with the people in case3 to make websites with cheats, and give How-To's for creating cheats, got a 1024 day ban. He's evaded this ban 1-2 times (got caught each time I believe) and will be a part of this community again in 46 days.

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So, 4 of the 5 distributors will be back in the game... 2 of them spammed cheats, 3 of them evaded, and only one of those guys unbanned truly came back and helped the game. However, the one guy who helped the game the most, is the guy with 300+ days left to serve.

Really, he got the worst situation too. He admitted to distribution 3 YEARS AGO, but never got banned for it. So, he stayed in this community for 3 more years, becoming arguably the best active mapper, and then gets a ban. IF they banned him the day he admitted, he'd be back in the community by now.

Even while banned, he's helping this community. He's one of the few who post on forums without ever trolling, he still releases maps (he just won Viciouz's mapping contest), he's the best mapper right now, he's been teaching me how to map (which sure, isn't much, but it's showing he's willing to spend time to help the people), he's always been a generally liked guy around the community...

I don't understand, knowing what every other distributor from those cheats got, why he's the one getting the worst outcome. Is it the "should have known better" thing? So, idiots get second chances? Yet, they evaded etc... A smart man makes a mistake, accepts it, and gets treated worse than he should have (worse because you waited 3 years to throw the ban on him) -- A few dumb men cheat, distribute, spam cheats, and evade... and get away with it.

Is the moral of the story to evade?

Please don't post if it's just to flame me, thanks!

PS - I wouldn't be arguing this if other people didn't get unbanned for the same thing, in the same situation. I'm not suggesting to unban distributors, I'm pointing out based off what happened, he doesn't deserve to still be banned.

EDIT: Locked - I got my answer, no need for debate on it anymore.

[UnRateD]

He should get unbanned. Hes served a long time, and even in a judiciary system good behaviour since the crime is taken into account when appeasing people. +1 for this post, its been a while since Myers posted something sensible.

[blaa]

 Although I agree that he has proved to be useful or whatever, I can not agree to change the banning policy.

[MyeRs]

Although I agree that he has proved to be useful or whatever, I can not agree to change the banning policy.

I understand completely, but that's why I'm trying to show that the banning policies have been changed twice - as 2 other distributors got unbanned for the SAME thing. So, why did nobody rage and protest when the banning policies were changed for them? When it was literally the same circumstances, the same cheat etc... I don't see it as changing the banning policies, since they've been changed to that particular case.

Another example, far more recent: Riddick distributed in #paintball after cheating - still denies cheating - comes on mostly trolling and annoying people - he's currently getting his ban voted on by the committee...

Cuso's actually positively benefited this game, he surely deserves a strong re-look, if not just being unbanned, based off past history. He's not changing banning policies, as they've already been changed.

[shockwave]

Unban him.

[Chalk]

yea! unban cusoman

but really, we have all these people who got let off easy playing the game and not doing shxt, so why not let cuso play when he's actually going to help out?

[Backlot]

tl;dr, unban him and Br55!

[joonas]

Some people got away with less than they deserved, therefore other peoples bantimes should be relooked at.

No. The people who got away with less than they deserved should be relooked at.


I'm just mad at the inverted nature of all these threads, nothing else in my mind at the moment.

[SuperMAn]

Too bad you didn't wait a couple days because Cusomans case has recently been resolved by the committee, just waiting on Jitspoe to change the official ban time.  

Suppose it can't hurt to post the details since the committee vote is done.

First of all Myers most of your facts in the first post are wrong.  
Cuso created and distributed multiple cheats.   This alone is deserving of a 1024 day ban.  
Cuso got very lucky do to how inefficient the committee was in the past.  His was given an initial ban of 64 days to allow the committee time to decide on appropriate punishment.  Fortunately for him his thread was buried in the committee section and forgotten about.  
Later on Jitspoe decided that this was not fair and gave him a 512 day ban.  Which is still pretty lenient in my opinion.

Here we are about 193 days later.  That would bring to total amount of time cusoman has been banned to (193 + 64)  257 days.

The committee has decided to reduce his ban to 400 days total, which for someone who created and distributed cheats is a relatively light sentence.   As of today he has served 257 days so the time remaining on his ban is 143 days.  A total ban reduction of 112 days.

I think this is fair and still sends the message that creating cheats for this game will not be tolerated.

[MyeRs]

He doesn't deserve more than the other cases.

Most of my facts are right actually, maybe the stories you got are wrong. Because I was actually around at the time this all happened, you weren't. I experienced it first hand, nobody in the committee did.

Cuso created one cheat, which he didn't distribute, and he turned in to Jitspoe. In fact, I believe that's the reason he originally got banned. He made modified maps, that he gave to TWO people. He did not teach anyone how to make these modified maps. This is worth 1024, but considering the cases I mentioned above, I don't think 1024 is fair. They distributed the same cheat at the same time.

Cuso didn't get lucky. He got screwed. It would've been way better for him to get banned back then. In the last 3 years, what has he done? He's learned how to be a great mapper, arguably the best. Now, he did it for a game he can't play? No new information was given. He did not get lucky.

512+64 is not lenient, when the others got so much less. I guess the moral of the story was to evade, unless you have committee connections, that is. Essentially the exact same crime done multiple times, yet never the same ban time. When the policies got changed after Case1, and then again after Case2, I wouldn't call Cuso's new ban he's getting, to be lenient either.

You, and the committee based your decisions comparing him to regular distributors, not to the special cases which got unbanned. Out of the 5 people who got caught creating and distributing that cheat, Cuso will be the only one banned still in a few months, he's also the only one who continually positively contributes to this community. Makes sense? Sure! I wonder, if he just evaded he probably would be allowed to keep playing... since it seems to be do that, or have committee connections, which he doesn't have... :/

[UnRateD]

Some people got away with less than they deserved, therefore other peoples bantimes should be relooked at.

No. The people who got away with less than they deserved should be relooked at.


I'm just mad at the inverted nature of all these threads, nothing else in my mind at the moment.

I dont agree with your logic. Id refer you back to my first post. Also, the nature is not 'inverted' in any way, its an attempt to achieve consistency and parity when looking at bans on this game. Cuso in comparison to others is being treated unfairly, and seems to be too nice/content to properly and publicly respond to his ban, so others are doing so for him.

Super, I think what is being argued is for/against, good deeds vs bad deeds. Perhaps some facts are being skewed somewhere in the thread, but in my opinion cuso should be unbanned near immediately, he has done far more good than others who have been unbanned sooner with bigger crimes.
 

[Rick]

It seems as though everyone is taking Cusoman's ban personally? I remember when I was in the committee that someone distributed to 2 people and his ban time was 64. Wtf. Everyone just seems to hate Cusoman.

[SuperMAn]

Super, I think what is being argued is for/against, good deeds vs bad deeds. Perhaps some facts are being skewed somewhere in the thread, but in my opinion cuso should be unbanned near immediately, he has done far more good than others who have been unbanned sooner with bigger crimes.

I can only think of one person who has committed a more severe crime... Zaltekk.  Maybe there are others, but I can't think of anyone else who created  cheats.

I think the main idea you guys are missing is that he CREATED the cheats.

You guys honestly think that the fact that he created a few nice maps counters the fact that he created and distributed a cheat??
 Who knows how many random people have been banned from the game due to his cheats being out.  How much time is this for Jitspoe to ban each newbie that found his modified maps, @ 40 min per ban it adds up.  Jitspoe has probably spent days dealing with the fallout just from a couple stupid things Cusoman did.

All of this time spent banning people also removes from Jitspoes development time and had a HUGE negative impact on the competitive scene.

There is no way that a few nice maps makes up for this.  Sorry, but in my opinion the good Cusoman has done does not outweigh the bad.

[pvtjimmy]

I just don't understand that people seem to claim certain rights, based on decision made by a mainly different team of committee members. I agree some people got away (too) easily, but this doesn't mean everybody should. Just as Joonas said, this would be inverting the natural process of handling offenses and I will never support this.

Respecting Cuso as a valuable member of this community and some other private information that is available in the committee section, I personally think we could grant Cuso this favor to get his bantime shortened. I have trouble understanding that yet again there is a discussion, right after we have done someone a favor. Why is there so much public debating needed for something that is a matter between Cuso and Jitspoe, and herewith the committee?