Double Jumping Issues (Split)

[joonas]

Joonas:  There is nothing wrong with double jumps.

Yes there is.
Examples: Remenissions, the triple to ladder inside the blue base is bugged. pgptrain_b4, blue ladder and the blue double to the flag are both bugged.

These aren't new bugs or anything, but they're more apparent now since doublejumping has been made easier.

[SuperMAn]

Yes there is.
Examples: Remenissions, the triple to ladder inside the blue base is bugged. pgptrain_b4, blue ladder and the blue double to the flag are both bugged.

These aren't new bugs or anything, but they're more apparent now since doublejumping has been made easier.

They are not bugs.. Mappers didn't do a good job that is all.

[joonas]

They are not bugs.. Mappers didn't do a good job that is all.

I tried it out. In my picture, strongly colored red plates indicate buggy double jumps and weakly colored ones indicate easier buggy double jumps. The spots where there are no red plates never bug out.

The map is placed above the origo and the yellow pole is directly on top of it.

[SuperMAn]

joonas I had no problems double jumping anywhere on that map.  I am not trying to be mean... but maybe you are just bad at double jumping?

Double jumping is all about timing.  I recorded myself doing that map you posted, you can see I had no problem jumping on any of those things you marked.  

There were a few times where I did the double jump too early and went straight up instead of going more forward, and I missed a couple of them all together.


I stand by my earlier statement... Double jumping is not bugged.

[pvtjimmy]

I don't think there's anything wrong with his jump skills Superman, as far as I know he's probably on of the best jumpers around.

I downloaded his "testing map" as well and jumped around a little. I don't think there are problems performing a double jump, I think what Joonas is trying to tell us that there are troubles with how the double jump is performed. I noticed a slight difference between the places marked in red and those which were not.

[joonas]

I really should have explained the bug ><. This bug only appears when you have 0 motion directed at the object you try to double from, so well timed double jumps will work just fine, but if you end up hitting the object before you manage to double, there's a chance that your double will fail, if it happens on the areas that I've marked that is. Ladder jumps for example wouldn't work 100% of the time on any of those red areas.


There's one thing that struck me as weird, and it's in the bottom left ring (note: only ring I've tried it on). There's two 45 degree angle walls where you double jump with your back directly against the origo, and the inner one, which is further away from the origo, is harder to double than the outer one. I can't explain why that would happen.

A moderator might want to move this discussion into its own thread o.O

[Ace]

I remember reading a paper by n00k1e, one of the best q2 jumpers ever, about the differences between jumps at different points compared to the origin, I tried to find it, but I don't remember where it is.

I remember the gist is that the origin works kind of like gravity in this game. So, that means that you have your normal jump height, but then also you are always slightly pulled toward the origin. So, when you are in the -y part of maps, you get extra height, and the opposite happens in +y.

It also affects what fps you need for those really awkward jumps that can only be done at odd fps'.


I'll look for a link sometime soon.

[Gamabunta]

I think you read that, Ace (just found it after reading your post): http://dl.dropbox.com/u/35665758/Quake%20II%20Physics.pdf

Also, I guess we could ask a moderator to create a new thread and move these posts about double jumping there?

[Foxhound]

I understand what joonas is talking about. on some jump maps i find myself not djing, but instead just jumping on top of the box that I'm supposed to be double jumping. Good example is double jump on xbmap to flag, sometimes you hit it, sometimes you don't.

i think joonas just wants consistency for ALL double jumps.

Also I'm not the best jumper, but for the people who are like me, we would enjoy consistency.

[Justinph5]

So, when we get back down to the problems with the double jumps, its the mappers not making the height of the double jumps consistent...  The only solution is = NEW MAP FORMAT!

[Ace]

I think you read that, Ace (just found it after reading your post): http://dl.dropbox.com/u/35665758/Quake%20II%20Physics.pdf

Yeah that's the one.

[jitspoe]

I've split this topic.  The "gravity" you describe is actually the values rounding down toward 0.  For network efficiency reasons, the player coordinates are converted from floating point values to 16bit integers.  That means if you're at location 123.45, it would get rounded down to 123.  456.78 would also get rounded down to 456.  I could potentially fix the rounding so .5+ would round up instead of down, but that would have a slight impact on overall movement speeds (depending on which way you were going it would make you move faster or slower).  It would be more consistent, which is a good thing, but I'm sure some people would complain that it would make some jumps too easy and others too hard.

[joonas]

I've split this topic.  The "gravity" you describe is actually the values rounding down toward 0.  For network efficiency reasons, the player coordinates are converted from floating point values to 16bit integers.  That means if you're at location 123.45, it would get rounded down to 123.  456.78 would also get rounded down to 456.  I could potentially fix the rounding so .5+ would round up instead of down, but that would have a slight impact on overall movement speeds (depending on which way you were going it would make you move faster or slower).  It would be more consistent, which is a good thing, but I'm sure some people would complain that it would make some jumps too easy and others too hard.

Ah crap, compatibility issues

What you said explains most of the things I noticed, but I'm still wondering about the crates on my map. No matter where I place a crate in the ++ region of the origin, it will always work from all sides, but if it's in the -+ or +- region, 3 out of 4 sides work, and on the -- region only 2 out of 4 do.

I'm hoping that there's another fix to this that wouldn't affect strafe jumping in any way.

[ViciouZ]

Just for the record, they're rounded (down) to the nearest eighth of a unit. Not sure if the same happens to velocities but that might make sense.

[Foxhound]

of course it would make it easier jitspoe, because it's consistent which is newbie friendly and shouldn't be a problem with the seasoned players.
I wouldn't listen to them