Author Topic: Payl Anti Cheat (PAC) (Read 15279 times)

prozajik · « **Reply #40 on:** February 27, 2012, 03:52:57 PM »

Quote from: payl on February 27, 2012, 09:19:32 AM

I have GeForce too, strange.
I don't need drivers download, i thought that you use ATI drivers so those generate problems.

Also, i'll see maybe this will occur at my PC. This seems to be rare issue that only shows during longer play. Maybe this is even paintball behavior i forgot to add... I'll make deeper research and contact you again if i'll need something.
Thanks for help.

Can't it be the old version of driver? Maybe outdated .dll which looks too different than the current ones? Notice that the driver is from 2009. I have to use this outdated one, otherwise i get blue screen after some time of playing. By the way, I wasnt playing long just 5-15 minutes.

payl · « **Reply #41 on:** February 27, 2012, 04:42:47 PM »

Quote from: prozajik on February 27, 2012, 03:52:57 PM

Can't it be the old version of driver? Maybe outdated .dll which looks too different than the current ones? Notice that the driver is from 2009. I have to use this outdated one, otherwise i get blue screen after some time of playing. By the way, I wasnt playing long just 5-15 minutes.

No, it isn't old driver. I played longer than my usual tests and it also showed me that warning. Probably paintball in few situations switch it. I'll later on look what exactly it is, and make patch to prevent this false-positive. Also this might be some other sys that switch it, but yeah, deeper look will show what is going on.
Thanks for help once more :-]

Anyway, it's strange that you get BSOD's with new drivers, maybe you should check out newest :-] . But i can understand your pain, same situation i had with my old PC and ATI Radeon 9500 if i remember correctly. Generally other drivers were needed for other tasks

+funny driver problems.

jitspoe · « **Reply #42 on:** February 27, 2012, 11:59:22 PM »

Quote from: payl on February 27, 2012, 08:18:46 AM

I have little request to Viciouz and Prozajik. PAC found on your computers opengl hack, which is probably stupid driver/etc.
Could you guys post what GPU you use and what version of drivers? Thanks.

This is a problem. It looks like there may be a conflict between the built in cheat detection and PAC. I would advise against further testing on public servers until this gets fixed.

payl · « **Reply #43 on:** February 28, 2012, 08:03:08 AM »

Quote from: jitspoe on February 27, 2012, 11:59:22 PM

This is a problem. It looks like there may be a conflict between the built in cheat detection and PAC. I would advise against further testing on public servers until this gets fixed.

In fact, i was unable to reproduce this on my local server. For me this bug occur only at public for now. Bug itself isn't big, it might prevent really rarely (2-5 times during 20min), and if we divide it by count of frames, we get less than 1%.
But of course, i'll try to provide patch today.
Also, it doesn't seem like this bug make any graphical artifacts.

EDIT: I found problem, temporarily patch is already released, InjEnv will automatically download new update when running. Later on i'll rework this system a little bit.

prozajik · « **Reply #44 on:** February 28, 2012, 10:57:27 AM »

Quote from: payl on February 27, 2012, 04:42:47 PM

Anyway, it's strange that you get BSOD's with new drivers, maybe you should check out newest :-] . But i can understand your pain, same situation i had with my old PC and ATI Radeon 9500 if i remember correctly. Generally other drivers were needed for other tasks +funny driver problems.

I have been updating drivers every half a year and tried paintball with it still nothing

. I also tried beta drivers but this driver from 2009 is the onyl one which works withou blue screen.
I think my "mobile" type of graphic card causes it, but i dont know for sure. Still its pretty anoying because this driver doesnt have dx11 (or 12 or whichever is the latest) so if I want to play game which requires the newts dx drivers i have to update my drivers play the game then downgrade back to the old drivers

. Tho I am glad at least i figured out how to play pb withou crashes

.

Anyway, your last post says that you already patched the problem? If so I am gonna try it again as soon as I have some time for pb

payl · « **Reply #45 on:** February 28, 2012, 11:02:13 AM »

Quote from: prozajik on February 28, 2012, 10:57:27 AM

Anyway, your last post says that you already patched the problem? If so I am gonna try it again as soon as I have some time for pb

Yeah, it's patched, but it's poor patch for now, i'll probably later on change method that i detect if call is valid... And testers are allways welcome!

Cameron · « **Reply #46 on:** March 18, 2012, 01:39:10 AM »

Just to not make the other thread off topic...

Quote from: payl on March 17, 2012, 05:16:32 PM

Ad: Do you know that PAC detect all kind of speedhacking?

That's fair enough that it does, but for the time being, leave it for testing/tournament purposes. If it gets implemented into the real game, people aren't going to want to run 2 things just to play it (or however it works), it'd have to be like the current detection system before it gets used in public servers.

payl · « **Reply #47 on:** March 18, 2012, 05:17:41 AM »

Quote from: Cameron on March 18, 2012, 01:39:10 AM

That's fair enough that it does, but for the time being, leave it for testing/tournament purposes. If it gets implemented into the real game, people aren't going to want to run 2 things just to play it (or however it works), it'd have to be like the current detection system before it gets used in public servers.

You guys are killing me. I explained it like 10 times that IT IS POSSIBLE IF JITSPOE HELP ME WITH THAT. But you doesn't seem to listen? How many times i can explain that? This was main plan to use PAC but as i got no help from jitspoe i decided to make it like it is now. UNDERSTOOD? THX.
[ragequit] X.x
I looked on all posts in this topics, haven't found that, hm. Then sorry for flame, but i feel like this was answered at least 5 times... Anyway, answer is simple: PAC is designed to be like this, but as Jitspoe doesn't help me this is how its work for now.

blaa · « **Reply #48 on:** March 18, 2012, 07:57:47 AM »

How are different legal modifications affecting pac? For example the viciouz's 'now playing' mp3 script?

payl · « **Reply #49 on:** March 18, 2012, 11:08:44 AM »

Quote from: blaa on March 18, 2012, 07:57:47 AM

How are different legal modifications affecting pac? For example the viciouz's 'now playing' mp3 script?

Any scripts don't make impact on PAC as long as they doesn't modify way display/connection/gameplay work. So generally anything there is allowed, until it doesn't modify code or something like that (i don't think that is even possible with scripts).
For now scripts doesn't hook PAC warning, but in future i might go for detection of some scripts that tournament organisators don't want (i.e. doublejump script).
So generally: PAC doesn't restrict scripts/textures you use for now, but this may change in future if tournament organisators want so. PAC is made to make games fair, but for now i don't want to be too restrictive, so i don't mind sound/texture changing, but if you(=community) want this to be detected, no problem. This can be used to make tournaments more restrictive in media used during it.

Foxhound · « **Reply #50 on:** July 09, 2012, 11:03:01 AM »

Quote from: payl on March 18, 2012, 11:08:44 AM

So generally: PAC doesn't restrict scripts/textures you use for now

so people can material wallhack using PAC. good to know.

Jitspoes cheat detection +1

payl · « **Reply #51 on:** July 09, 2012, 02:29:24 PM »

Quote from: Foxhound on July 09, 2012, 11:03:01 AM

so people can material wallhack using PAC. good to know.

Tell me how do i detect if texture is legit or cheated. I thought about list of hashes with legit textures, but i found i'm not able to collect enough of those to prevent many false positives.

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Jitspoes cheat detection +1

If jitspoes anticheat would be better in all cases than PAC, then my PoC wallhack wouldn't be undetected. And PAC is enchanting anticheat systems, does not prevent jitspoe anticheat from working and/or detecting cheats. I didn't fell like repeating all Jitspoe methods, instead PAC monitors Jitspoes anticheat for malfunctions.

nub · « **Reply #52 on:** July 09, 2012, 02:49:27 PM »

Quote from: payl on July 09, 2012, 02:29:24 PM

PAC monitors Jitspoes anticheat for malfunctions.

There is no point of it then. When has there been a malfunction?

payl · « **Reply #53 on:** July 09, 2012, 02:58:03 PM »

Quote from: nub on July 09, 2012, 02:49:27 PM

There is no point of it then. When has there been a malfunction?

Hacker might modify Jitspoes anticheat code (as it got very easy obfuscation), right?
I see you got no clue how all process works.

Foxhound · « **Reply #54 on:** July 09, 2012, 03:35:33 PM »

Quote from: payl on July 09, 2012, 02:29:24 PM

Tell me how do i detect if texture is legit or cheated.

Ever hear about anyone saying they got a modded content warning? oh thats right because jitspoe can tell when you have changed a texture. Oh thats right jitspoe can take remote screen shots. Oh thats right maybe you should give jitspoe you PoC wallhack so he can add it to his own cheat detection. Would be more helpful than your PAC.

payl · « **Reply #55 on:** July 09, 2012, 04:27:36 PM »

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Ever hear about anyone saying they got a modded content warning?

Have you reversed jitspoe anticheat and other modules? I don't think so. However i can't share jitspoes anticheat internals.

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oh thats right because jitspoe can tell when you have changed a texture.

1.Why do i need to double jitspoes anticheat functionality?
2.Have you RE jitspoe anticheat or created it that you know how it works?

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Oh thats right jitspoe can take remote screen shots.

Oh right, so should i do same?
Maybe i should just copy Jitspoe anticheat and rename it to 'pac.dll'? If i UPX it nobody would notice lol.

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Oh thats right maybe you should give jitspoe you PoC wallhack so he can add it to his own cheat detection.

I won't because of way he threats me with PAC.

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Would be more helpful than your PAC.

Jitspoe doesn't care about PAC and/or other subworks i have done related to that. Maybe it would be more helpful, but i have other priorities than giving everything I've done to jitspoe with hope that he will even open my source and take a overall look. If he isn't interested in that, then why should i share that with him.
Foxhound, you should already know that Jitspoe doesn't trust anyone so i'm not able to do anything for paintball most obvious way.

Foxhound · « **Reply #56 on:** July 09, 2012, 05:12:44 PM »

You havent defended your point on any of those quotes. All of your comebacks are just belittling people and use fancy geek words to make yourself look smart. Asking us if we understand stupid things is a waste of time.

And yes Jitspoes is better, so yeah you should take some things from him if you want yours to be better. And i don't need to know how his works. I know for a fact if you have modded content you get a warning. That's a no brainer. Again, you haven't defended anything in your post.

why do you go on and on about it if you know anything related to getting PAC implemented is futile. Just give it up.

Maybe the fact that you openly admit that you have hacks that beat his system really pisses him off. Flaunting and taunting isn't helping you at all.

@jitspoe, he's admitted to having hacks. Please ban him from game and forums. Thx
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x185/FOXHOUND12/Paylcheats-2.png in case he edits his threads.

payl · « **Reply #57 on:** July 09, 2012, 05:55:16 PM »

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You havent defended your point on any of those quotes.

Sure i haven't. To be honest i don't care about your opinion. You can't understand fact that i have much more knowledge than you have and you keep on posting your mistaken opinions. It's even worse that i can't describe why you are wrong cuz of security, so you start to tell me that "you haven't defended your point". Well, that's why i don't care about your opinion. You can't understand fact that there are things that i CAN'T tell. You follow simple manner: Jitspoe always say truth, Jitspoe is never wrong, Jitspoe knows everything. Payl always lies, Payl is never correct, Payl knows nothing.
Look at it this way:
Made by Payl: RE of jitspoe anticheat, PAC, Wallhack.
Made by Foxhound: Nothing

Does this really need a comment about your and mine knowledge?

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And yes Jitspoes is better, so yeah you should take some things from him if you want yours to be better.

Now you admit to know both mines and his internals. Have you reversed mine anticheat?

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And i don't need to know how his works. I know for a fact if you have modded content you get a warning. That's a no brainer.

I don't really care about opinion of people that only guess and have some minor knowledge. I've made my own anticheat and reverse engineered Jitspoes so don't argue with me till you get some knowledge, please. And sorry, but i can't share my knowledge as it's important for Jitspoes and mine anticheat security. You have to understand that.

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why do you go on and on about it if you know anything related is futile. just give it up then.

Go on with what. Nah, i don't even care, no need to answer.

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Maybe the fact that you openly admit that you have hacks that beat his system really pisses him off.

Having cheats isn't bad after all till you don't use them versus players. Is that bad that i develop cheat that will test PAC security? Yes, sure, it's bad, because meanwhile i managed to bypass Jitspoes anticheat! (This is impossible because Jitspoe=God 4 u).

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Flaunting and taunting isn't helping you at all.

Do i flaunt and taunt? Let it be.

I see Foxfound rather than posting something with a point, you start to flame me. Stop, otherwise i won't response. You are wasting my time with your useless posts.

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@jitspoe, he's admitted to having hacks. Please ban him from game and forums. Thx
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x185/FOXHOUND12/Paylcheats-2.png in case he edits his threads.

Cheating is allowed if you won't use it online. Jitspoe found me using speedhack on my server while ago (during PAC testing), he even told that publicly, you can search.
You are so serious that you become funny.

O' look i found it:

Quote from: jitspoe on February 07, 2012, 01:18:10 AM

[@Payl] such as what's used on what you were testing on your private server (yes, that was detected)

Foxhound · « **Reply #58 on:** July 09, 2012, 06:01:28 PM »

Quote from: payl on July 09, 2012, 05:55:16 PM

Do i flaunt and taunt?

Quote from: payl on July 09, 2012, 05:55:16 PM

Made by Payl: RE of jitspoe anticheat, PAC, Wallhack.
Made by Foxhound: Nothing

Does this really need a comment about your and mine knowledge?

Go on with what. Nah, i don't even care, no need to answer.

All im saying is, you say every time that jitspoe doesn't want to use your PAC, so go bring it else where. The dp community is tired of this.

i see prozajik is trying to help, and jitspoe cautions you. This is fair and well but if you honestly dont believe jitspoe will use your design. why bother? No one wanted it in the #spl. no one will want it when its complete. You only have yourself to blame for that.

payl · « **Reply #59 on:** July 09, 2012, 06:07:55 PM »

Quote from: Foxhound on July 09, 2012, 06:01:28 PM

All im saying is, you say every time that jitspoe doesn't want to use your PAC, so go bring it else where. The dp community is tired of this.

You doesn't seem tired. But I'm tired because of you. Gonna do what i told i'll do.

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i see prozajik is trying to help, and jitspoe cautions you. This is fair and well but if you honestly dont believe jitspoe will use your design. why bother? No one wanted it in the #spl. no one will want it when its complete. You only have yourself to blame for that.

Actually i blame haters like you. Not gonna describe why, ask yourself.