[Feature]Bunnyhopping by holding space

[rafalluz]

I have played other fast paced shooters recently (Warsow, Xonotic) and I noticed, that most of them feature ability to bunnyhop as you simply hold down space, and not just hit it as you are on the ground. This may be pretty good idea:

1)It helps newbies learn to get speed faster.
2)Those offended by "dumbing the game down" can simply disable it.

[blaa]

 Not just bunny hopping, you can double jump by holding the jump key.

I saw it happen in warsow, some people liked it, some people didn't. Now, nobody even notices. Makes the movement on stairs a lot more enjoyable, but I still like to do double jumps 'manually'. It doesn't limit anything, just makes some 'monotic', 'robotic' things easier.

i support.

[Ace]

I like the idea of hopping by just holding space since sometimes it just gets ridiculous at high speeds. The problem is that I can't think of one shooter map that it is really an issue, only jump maps. Overall I think it is just a bit unnecessary.

Being able to hold jump in order to double jump just degrades the play of maps. Certain spots on maps were meant to be harder to get to so that it doesn't let every little n00b take the fastest way or best way every single time.

Overall, bad idea it would dumb down the movement way too much .

[Foxhound]

I like the idea of hopping by just holding space since sometimes it just gets ridiculous at high speeds. The problem is that I can't think of one shooter map that it is really an issue, only jump maps. Overall I think it is just a bit unnecessary.

Being able to hold jump in order to double jump just degrades the play of maps. Certain spots on maps were meant to be harder to get to so that it doesn't let every little n00b take the fastest way or best way every single time.

Overall, bad idea it would dumb down the movement way too much .

people can already just get a dj script.. so whats the difference?

[Ace]

people can already just get a dj script.. so whats the difference?

At least you have to know how to get a dj script... and this idea would work for triple/quads etc as well. bad idea

I guess I don't really see how needing to tap space again and again is really an issue for anyone. People that are bad at strafing don't go fast enough to make it an issue. And people that do go fast enough can handle tapping one button multiple times...

[blaa]

At least you have to know how to get a dj script... and this idea would work for triple/quads etc as well. bad idea

I guess I don't really see how needing to tap space again and again is really an issue for anyone. People that are bad at strafing don't go fast enough to make it an issue. And people that do go fast enough can handle tapping one button multiple times...

You can't just hold jump button and perform triple/quad jumps. And saying that it takes an effort, which should be rewarded, to install a dj script is lol.

[prozajik]

Oh come on not this one :/
We got new physics so jumping - is much easier and now you want a pre-installed dj script? If you cant dj get dj script. Also it isnt that hard to make double jump in high speeds (for example dj crate to flag on daylight from ice, I made it many times in matches pretty funny cause most people dont expect it -> easy grab ). And now you want to take this hmm "skill" from people who know how to do it and give it to everyone.
All in all, I dont like that idea.

[blaa]

 Yeah, some newbies might benefit from it, but in the matching scene everybody already knows how to strafe jump, so pushing the jump button is just a repetitive thing that doesn't add anything.

Try it in warsow...

[rafalluz]

Actually, I don't really think it would even dumb a game down, dj at full speed does require tons of skill to nail it, if you can do it good for you, but it would not be affected by that idea, because if you mistime, sure, you would dj, but not before running into a block you'd dj from, slowing you down as it would normally.

Clearly, DJ is hardly a concern, especially given that DJ scripts already exist since long ago.

My idea is - less steep learning curve for beginners, unchanged advanced movement. I do think such change would achieve just that.

Besides, it is client-side thing. Don't like it? You can turn it off. Except I've got to like it, even playing old way before - it is simply more convenient.

[prozajik]

There already is a dj script, so why waste jitspoe's time by remaking it and adding it to the client if you can do it yourself?
If you want i can make an improved settings menu for you where would be a tickbox with dj script option
In addition i dont think it would be logical to make it that way -- follow my idea: Newbie holds space -> he double jumps, after long time knowing this he finds out that holding down space button just replaces double tapping jump button. Seems pretty illogical that newbie first learns how to double jump (and all these cool things) and then he finds out how it actually works.
Also by allowing this by default you would refuse the possibility for those who wants to put some effort into it and learn how to jump. So when they first double jump they wont feel like winners but like everybody else because they just held one button and it happened ^^

PS:I am strictly against any scripts i hate dj script(come on just learn how to tap jump button fast) and autohand script(more and more spray for those who need it), dont expect me to change my mind

[rafalluz]

I fail to see the problem:

In addition i dont think it would be logical to make it that way -- follow my idea: Newbie holds space -> he double jumps, after long time knowing this he finds out that holding down space button just replaces double tapping jump button. Seems pretty illogical that newbie first learns how to double jump (and all these cool things) and then he finds out how it actually works.

As long as there is tutorial explaining principle, I see absolutely no problem with that.

Also by allowing this by default you would refuse the possibility for those who wants to put some effort into it and learn how to jump. So when they first double jump they wont feel like winners but like everybody else because they just held one button and it happened ^^

Really? Is dj such a big deal to anyone? Even without scripts, it isn't exactly rocket science to figure out a general principle.

Besides, I don't care about double jumping too much. But bunnyhopping on a flat surface with holding space is a convenience, and again, all this stuff would be explained in the tutorial (if one was to be made), so I fail to see the problem yet again. You get the basic idea quickly, but you still have to take time to polish it. Warsow is a prime example, because you have all basic principles explained in the tutorial, but just because you do, doesn't mean you'll be able to use them efficiently in combat right away. And, oh yes, you dj there by default, not a problem.

Besides, it was jitspoe who initiated recent movement changes, so I guess he thought things indeed could use some improvements in that regard.

[MyeRs]

This is actually a good idea - lowering the learning curve will help keep players around - and hopefully get more people to get into the matching scene.

It's not like it's some huge advantage - everyone who actively matches etc.. can double jump consistently, and strafe jump properly - yet there's still a large skill difference. This just allows for new players to be able to DJ and strafe easier, and focus on other things.

And to those who don't like it - it doesn't affect you. Just don't hold down space. It will have no impact on the people who already can jump, and will have a positive impact on those who can't. This would help the integration far more then the new physics did.

[blaa]

 Yeah, and if you are worried that now newbies will have to put zero effort in to learn strafeing, then worry no more! Moving your mouse is still the most crucial part is strafeing and just removing the button mashing won't help on that part.

Besides this, I would like to see the hand script in the game. Games like warsow and quake live already have those in the game as default. I tried some handscript once, but I didn't like it. I guess the 'script' can't really be as good as games code or something. Worth looking into it, in my opinion.

I would recommend to everybody, who oppose this idea, solely on theory, to try out these functions in other games. Download warsow to try the autojump. Install quakelive and shoot with plasmagun.

[joonas]

I have played other fast paced shooters recently (Warsow, Xonotic) and I noticed, that most of them feature ability to bunnyhop as you simply hold down space, and not just hit it as you are on the ground. This may be pretty good idea:

I've played Warsow, and finding out about that feature made me feel dispirited (I can go into more detail if necessary). I ended up using it there, but it's one of the many reasons why I don't play that game anymore, and I wish it wasn't implemented into paintball.

Just a reminder, holding down the jump key already serves a purpose, so unless that changes, this isn't going to be implemented.

Those offended by "dumbing the game down" can simply disable it.

In a game, the most effective way of gaming always seems to prevail in a competitive setting, meaning that if you add anything that can give an advantage to people, using those things will become a standard. If jitspoe added a feature that would lighten up all the dark areas in maps, retexture all the models into neon colored cubes, remove all of the "unnecessary" sounds, increase the footstep sounds etc. The majority of the matching scene would play with all of these on. The game would look, sound and feel like crap, and if you didn't use these crappy settings, you'd be in an inferior position against everyone that did. So those who don't use these settings are shooting themselves in the foot, and those that do are playing a bad game.

You can't just tell people to disable it because doing that would make them play from an inferior position. Being as fast and consistent as a person who uses a Warsow-like double jump script requires way more skill than you think.

[MyeRs]

Joonas; you went to those games from after playing q2jump etc... it's different. We can't hope we're getting experienced jumpers and whatnot on each download.

This WOULD NOT change your Digital Paint: Paintball 2.0 experience at all. It would only help new players with stuff that doesn't give them any advantage. They'd have the basics of strafing down - but still need to learn how to gain speed etc... -- and they'd have doublejumping basics learned (still wouldn't be able to do all DJ's with this) ---- Every single competitive player can do these things easily. It's not difficult. It just reduces the learning curve to start out, allowing new players to focus on other aspects. There's no negative to this, it's either a 'no-change' or an improvement.

[blaa]

 I don't even think it makes anything easier for anybody. Those, who are unwilling to learn, will not suddenly become good strafe jumpers. But I think this is good, because it reduces pointless button pushing.

[prozajik]

There already is a dj script, so why waste jitspoe's time by remaking it and adding it to the client if you can do it yourself?

Not sure if dj script is exactly what you want here because i have used it like 4 years ago but i think it is

Just a reminder, holding down the jump key already serves a purpose, so unless that changes, this isn't going to be implemented.

Exactly what would happen if you held jump button while sliding ramp? ( you would dj from ramp clearly but then how you gonna slide the ramp?)

I don't even think it makes anything easier for anybody. Those, who are unwilling to learn, will not suddenly become good strafe jumpers. But I think this is good, because it reduces pointless button pushing.

Few days ago picky told me that he was surprised how much dj script helps, he told me that he was able to dj from rly rly low obstacles from which he wasnt able to dj on a first try without script (for example pbcup_pforest - from top of autococker+barrel house near the spawn)

[rafalluz]

I don't even think it makes anything easier for anybody. Those, who are unwilling to learn, will not suddenly become good strafe jumpers. But I think this is good, because it reduces pointless button pushing.

Spot on.

Dj script doesn't exempt you from pressing jump as you move around the map - which is the button pushing I consider pointless - you got the general idea that you have to jump constantly to bunnyhop, constantly pressing space does not mean any significant skill as it isn't exactly rocket science (even less so than dj in itself) and even if you do, you still can't go too fast until you learn how to strafe/turn your mouse efficiently, so simplifying that has pretty minor effect on learning curve for beginners (slight lowering), absolutely none for advanced players, just becoming more convenient rather than straight up easier (you cut back on mechanical thing - tapping space as you move, rather than actual skill, as there is very little timing involved in that as you move around).

As for sliding ramp, it's already contextual movement (you don't slide on flat terrain while holding space), so very doubtful anything would be broken. Again, Warsow is a fine example of that - special movement button is also contextual and you can either: dodge, wall kick or slide up ramp with it.

[prozajik]

As for sliding ramp, it's already contextual movement (you don't slide on flat terrain while holding space), so very doubtful anything would be broken.

Well, I dont think so, because currently you have to hold space to be able to slide a ramp. But what you are suggesting is that if you hold space you simply jump again. So my question here is, what would have happened if you held the jump button during sliding a ramp after implementing your suggestion?

[jitspoe]

Making this change is pretty simple.  It's just a matter of removing the check to see if you've released the jump button before jumping again.  I've tinkered with it in the past for kicks, but it didn't have great results.  Sure, regular strafe jumping and basic double jumps are easier, but a lot of jumps depend on timing, and re-jumping ASAP doesn't yield the greatest jump height.