If the Map Pool was forced to 10 maps...

[MyeRs]

All I was waiting for was Jitspoe's post:

I don't think 'xp' system really helps anything, because this games just not large enough for any ranking system to mean anything. What does a ranking system or xp system get you? Nametag? Cooler models? Otherwise, what's the point of getting XP when you can "have fun spawncamping" ? There needs to be an incentive. And this does nothing but potentially encourage current players, not new ones. This idea was aimed towards increasing the community. But at least you read mine/rick's idea and understood the points, unlike Foxhound and others who just can't comprehend much. (Yeah, Foxhound I'm dumb? LOL, let's not talk about intelligence, sir)

Also, you wont be able to change anything like that into the matching scene, unless it was some form of you controlling maps on servers where there were only 'these' approved maps. Matching is a joke now anyways, there's no true competition, you might get a 'clan vs clan' match once a week, if that. The only way to improve the game, is some kind of drastic change, otherwise it becomes just another outdated game that slowly declines until its done. I just figured this was a drastic change that required minimal work from you with potentially high amounts of upside - as it makes it more similar to other mods. I guess only Rick/Cuso/Chalk/You actually understood the idea, judging by the way you guys responded.

Thanks, though. Was just an idea, idiots like Foxhound took it as "lolz myers said something, imma try to pretend i r smart n comment against it! even though i cant understand his points huehue" Moron.

[Foxhound]

I dont get why you ignore my points, brush them aside, you and me both know what you're trying to do, and every time I explain why its a poor idea you pull a snood and avoid the points made.

Try explaining what you're trying to do one last time because I'm sure w/e you say, there will be a rebuttal from my earlier posts that's totally on point with your idea.

You sound pompous and dumb btw.

[nub]

Just putting my 2 cents in, when you PM'd me and I said I understand your idea. I didn't agree with it. Makes me not on that list. Because I don't agree with it. The clan scene will not change at all without an incentive. But since people are female doges about giving money out to DP and like to hack nothing will be done.

Myers you think you are the meddling community when you are not. I understand what you are saying. But the fact is DP is not in relationship to those competitive FPS games. Why because it is DP 2. There won't be another league in this game. There will be mini cups if that is possible anymore. Er33t came in here during August to propose a new idea. Good job er33t nothing happened. Why because the game is dead.

Forcing this to 10 maps to newbies is a bad idea. The idea I would focus on is the current members. What would make it better for us? What is the point in playing for us? Can we get something competitive (the answer is no).

Myers you think you own the community. Maybe at one point in 2009 you did, You play meddling LoL now. Compare that game to DP. You are comparing a game with 1 mil +  vs 100. OMG I PLAYED STARCRAFT 2 WITH SUPERMAN FOR A 2v2 LAST NIGHT. IT TOOK 10 SECS. LIKE OMG. You are comparing two different games. Which doesn't help your point at all.

Myers suck a D...i.....c.......k

[JUICEY]

There should be missions of some sort, or rankings.... Missions give you reason to stick with the game and keep playing the game(along with player rankings) It's not a big deal, but it adds something to the game rather than just continuously pubbing/matching which promotes repetition which is boring. I doubt that the idea of keeping only 10 maps is going to happen. It would mean that there should only one or two american servers, and 1/2 Euro servers, since its all the same then.. why would anyone want to buy more servers even though it would make no difference? although reducing the number of maps is what would encourage new players to look forward to and learn "x amount" of maps, there isnt anything else that would encourage them to stick around for a while other than potentially start matching.. i think that rankings or individual missions would be a good idea..

[Chalk]

I'm cool with this and any other idea. Just say intercourse it and put up polls for a bunch of random excrement to implement. There've been a bunch of idea threads and everyone just ends up arguing , while jitspoe rarely even acknowledges any of them

edit: wait wait. ^^ = pretty much just put the excrement in from the feature votes.

[Foxhound]

^ agreed... except the part about agreeing with this idea.

[Toxiic]

I Agree with myers/Rick 's idea, also with juiicy's idea <3

But it will go to the feature vote and stay there all it's life, just like the people banned, I mean even zaltekk wanted to get unbanned this year, but about 90% of the time nothing is  going to happen, unless jitspoe give some one power, cuz he's always "busy" , ummm maybe capo might be good? Deffenitly not clipz

[Clipz]

Toxicc Go Away.

[Ghadente]

those 10 maps will most likely be ones that older players already play constantly and/or know very well. So new players will still be at a disadvantage until they practice... it takes time to get good at anything. I don't feel limiting maps will solve new players lack of experience... bc that's what it really comes down to experience... not the map. Knowing a map will help but only so much. New players need something that will convince them to take the time needed to learn the game and get better. Any game that new players enter will require time and practice.

if you were to go ahead with this idea you should create 10 completely new maps that no one has had time to memorize.

*also i like the ideas on some sort of goals/achievements. Whether it be missions, xp, or even more detail into gaining stats. Just something for players to work towards might get some new ones to stay.

[Chalk]

I see the point you're trying to make, but limiting the maps has its down sides, too.  I actually see that as a detriment to other games, and an excuse for them to make more money by selling DLC.  Limited maps in games kind of bother me.

I do think, however, that we have too many poorly-built maps in regular rotation.  Here's what I think would be a possible solution:

For matches, have a pool of "officially approved" maps.  Clans can match on any map they want, if both clans agree, however, if clan A wants to pick unknownmap2354, clan B can decline and request they only pick one from the approved list.  But, hey, if they both want to play on it - let 'em at it.

For pubs, and this is a long way off, I think the only real way to enforce any kind of standard map or settings is to have an XP system.  Servers could run whatever maps and settings they want, but people aren't going to get XP for spawncamping ub_cliff for 8 hours, so it should encourage people to play "approved" maps.

Wow, I didn't even see this, so ignore my last post. I like this idea and it seems a lot more reasonable than 10 forced maps on pubs AND matches,  but there's no way the active clans would cooperate with each other.

[jitspoe]

Ghadente brings up a good point.  If the idea is to narrow the gap between new and experienced players, I think limiting the map pool will potentially have the opposite effect.  If experienced players are playing the same 10 maps over and over again, they're going to master every nook and cranny of the maps.  They'll know exactly where to shoot to hit people exiting the base at the start of the round.  They'll know exactly where to jump to capture a flag in 10 seconds, etc.  New players will stand even less of a chance than they would on a lesser-played map where the experienced player may not have mastered every last shortcut and location to spray.

[RoBiNandL!nk]

Ghadente brings up a good point.  If the idea is to narrow the gap between new and experienced players, I think limiting the map pool will potentially have the opposite effect.  If experienced players are playing the same 10 maps over and over again, they're going to master every nook and cranny of the maps.  They'll know exactly where to shoot to hit people exiting the base at the start of the round.  They'll know exactly where to jump to capture a flag in 10 seconds, etc.  New players will stand even less of a chance than they would on a lesser-played map where the experienced player may not have mastered every last shortcut and location to spray.

In my opinion I don't think it would have an opposite affect. The good players already know every nook and cranny. The best players have their limits, and the new players can only get better. I think it will lessin the gap inbetween the two types of players.

[jitspoe]

The good players know every nook and cranny of certain maps that they play regularly.  If those were the ONLY maps you could play, you're ONLY playing against experienced players that have basically mastered the maps.  Let's say somebody has matched 1000 times: 100x's per map.  A new player matching will be up against somebody who has played the map 100x's more.  That's a pretty big experience gap.  If there's a larger pool, however - say 100 maps - an experienced player is going to be averaging 10x's per map -- maybe 100x's on a couple maps, and less than 10 on others.  That's an easier gap to close if new players happen to pick a match map that isn't played as frequently.

I can certainly understand the frustration of getting into a match and having a team pick some super obscure map that's super confusing and difficult to navigate.  Ideally, matches would be planned ahead: 2 clans pick a date, time, and maps, giving each other a day or two to practice the map choices and develop strategies.  Most of the people in this community don't seem to be patient/care enough to do it that way, though.  They have to match RIGHT NOW!

[RoBiNandL!nk]

ohh I agree that the map pool of 10 is too small for this game, but over 2,000 maps is just insane. I think all the beta maps and ones never played should be stored in somewhere else and not in most map rotations. beta maps should not be allowed on servers, pub or match. Only beta maps should be on beta servers.


EDIT-- I say 50 would be great.

[Foxhound]

But beta maps are good, just not released. Daylight and Duck for example. Those are played a lot and are only in beta form unless changed by the server host. So that's not a good option either.

[RoBiNandL!nk]

Why havent these beta maps been released? the two maps you have mentioned look pretty much all done to me, if theres a couple misaligned textures i could align them quickly. Its just stupid in matches be like.. Ohh whats that map name again? ohh its beta/daylight_b2... ohh no its b3.. ohh wait i forget.

[SuperMAn]

Here is the problem with your idea:  Playing the same map over and over again wont make people improve any faster.  

The problem isn't that people can't do specific jumps or know specific paths.  The problem is that it takes a long time to learn the fundamental skills required to play this game well.  These skills apply to ALL maps.  Once you learn how to strafe jump / double jump it doesn't matter what map you are playing, you will always be able to strafe jump / double jump.  Once you know how to move quickly you will be able to move quickly on ALL maps.  Sure there will be a small amount of learning individual maps, but if you know the fundamentals you will have no problem learning a few paths/jumps on a map.

I do think limiting the maps would help with the competitive scene, but ONLY if the majority of players had the fundamentals down. Which they do not.

What good is limiting the maps when HOW the players play doesn't change.  This limited map model works for other games because they have 0 learning curve to them.  They are just point and shoot games.  When was the last time you had to LEARN to run in a game (Not counting QWOP)?  Most games these days have a single button for that.


DP is fundamentally different from newer FPS games.  Do you think game publishers want you to spend 2 years perfecting a jumping technique for their new game? No, they want you to play it for a few months and buy the updated version next year.



This idea might work if the learning curve for paintball wasn't so long.   But right now I cannot see this idea having any benefit to this game.







Possible ways to shorten the learning curve:

- Automatic bunny hopping when holding space
- Advanced jumping tutorial
- Something to measure strafe jumping efficiency (can't see this ever happening, but just an idea)? (automatic calculation of best path / path taken, steps you could take to improve)



Edit:  I think rewarding players is also very important when it comes to keeping a steady player base.  XP idea isn't bad.  If each player had a level, received XP for playing there would actually be some incentive for some people to play.  This would tie nicely into a certified server/map system.  Can only get XP from certified servers, certified servers can only run certified maps.  I think limiting the number of maps that can be certified is a mistake though.
This would also work with the competitive scene.  Clans agree to only match on certified servers / maps.  If XP stats were collected I don't see why match results couldn't also be.  So match results could be automatically posted to the dplogin clan pages.

[Ghadente]

- Something to measure strafe jumping efficiency (can't see this ever happening, but just an idea)? (automatic calculation of best path / path taken, steps you could take to improve)

something like the green/yellow/red path that helps you know the best route and when to slow down/speed up in car racing games?
would be interesting if possible

[Rockyar_96]

I agree with Jitspoe, 10 maps would have the opposite effect.
Just look at CS:S's de_dust2 and the rest of the CS:S standard maps.
Everyone will know the maps but only those who play much will stand a chance. This would not even work if we had 10 brandnew perfectly mapped maps.

[jitspoe]

something like the green/yellow/red path that helps you know the best route and when to slow down/speed up in car racing games?
would be interesting if possible

Getting a bit off-topic, but it sounds like you're describing this feature vote: http://dplogin.com/dplogin/featurevote/feature.php?id=10212