Author Topic: League of Legends vs. Paintball 2  (Read 105603 times)

jitspoe

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League of Legends vs. Paintball 2
« on: December 07, 2012, 06:35:51 PM »
There has been a lot of discussion about League of Legends lately, and I figured I'd start a little bit of an analysis and compare it to Paintball2, now that I've finally gotten around to trying it out.

First thing I noticed: It gets updated constantly.  I downloaded the game and tried to run it, and it had to update.  I came back later to play the tutorial, and it had to update.  A few hours later, I went to try a bot match, and, you guessed it - update!  I suppose frequent updates keep people checking back for what's new (good, bad, or otherwise).

Paintball2, on the other hand, does not have super frequent updates.  I'd like to have a new update every month or two, but it would be difficult to keep that up and have  substantial enough changes to make the updates worthwhile.

The second thing I noticed -- and I found this interesting, considering the number of players and the fact that LoL is considered one of the more newbie-friendly DotA clones -- was that it felt very inaccessible.  Just navigating the menus and trying to get into a game with a friend for the first time was pretty complicated.  That said, it does have a friends and match making system, which Paintball2 does not, so I guess that helps out, even if the user interface is confusing.  I'd like to think the interface on Paintball2 is a bit more straightforward, but perhaps that could stand to be improved as well.

Interface aside, the complexity of League of Legends as a game is through the roof.  There are so many variables.  It sounded complex at first with just the sheer number of characters you could play (each with different sets of abilities, strengths, and weaknesses) and the combinations you can have with those characters, but you also have global, persistent summoner abilities, masteries and runes.  These affect things like mana, health, defense, resistance, critical hits, and regen rates, just to name a few.  So you have all that global, persistent (aka summoner) stuff that you're building up as you progress in the game globally, but also locally you have a character that levels up within the match you're playing and has skill points that can be put into different abilities.  Not only that, but there are items you can purchase (local to the match) with gold you get from killing things.  These items boost stats and whatnot, but can also be be used to craft better items.  The process is fairly streamlined, but it's fundamentally pretty complex.  To top it all off, there are various "neutral" creatures that can be killed to get additional buffs.  While the game mode itself is pretty straightforward (destroy the enemy base), there are about 8 layers of stats between you and that...

Paintball2, by comparison, has really simple combat.  You hit a player once, and he's gone.  It still takes a long time to master, though.  The complexity lies more in maneuvering, and leading your shots.  Learning to navigate a map quickly and shoot other fast-moving players takes a lot of practice, but is probably a very different process of thinking compared to choosing stats.  They both take time, though.  As a new player, you can't even begin to compete with people that have a lot of experience.  In that regard, the games are similar.

Perhaps, though, that complexity is what keeps people coming back to LoL.  If you try a character and don't do well with it, perhaps you'll try again with different items (and other stat-modifying things).   Or, maybe, you'll use a different character completely.  It's a giant numbers game, really.  If you want to min/max a character or customize something that fits your play style, you have to do research.  Research means visiting forums, reading websites, watching videos, etc.  This increases community activity, which, in turn, is actually a marketing outlet for the game.  More active community sites/videos/etc. = more content on the web regarding LoL = more people brought into the game = more people getting involved in the community = more active community... it's a snowball effect.  I find it very interesting that this works.  Of course, it's just speculation.

Paintball2 doesn't really have mechanics that require a lot of discussion.  You can get the very basics of jumping and shooting in a day, and after that, it's just practice, practice, practice.  The closest thing we have would probably be the mapping community, but that's not for everybody, and is certainly not a core feature of the game.

On that note, one other key difference is that LoL effectively has only one map that people play.  It's mainly character oriented.  The setting remains the same, while the game changes because of the interactions between differenth characters.  Paintball2 has only 1 character, but many different maps.

Oh, another thing I found surprising was the load times in LoL.  Not so much my own load time, but the fact that we had to wait like 10 minutes for somebody else to finish loading before we could start.  Maybe that's not a common scenario, but it's interesting that people put up with that.  I suppose that kind of ensures people set aside some time to play, and once they're in, they're in.  It's not like you can jump quickly from game to game if you get bored or frustrated.  You will also be pretty much screwing your team if you disconnect.  In a sense, every league of legends game is like an automated pickup game, even if you're just hopping on to play by yourself.

That's one thing that bugs me about Paintball2 players.  I'll be enjoying a fun game, then a bunch of people just drop out.  It's difficult to get the most out of a game if you can't have a consistent rival throughout the match (or can't complete a match at all because everybody leaves).  I really want to add a harsh XP loss penalty for quitting mid-match if an XP system is added.  It's usually more fun if everybody sticks through 'til the end.

Finally, there's one pretty significant similarity I've noticed between League of Legends and Paintball 2.  It's almost more about everybody on your team not screwing up than it is about playing as a team.  By that, I mean it's easier for one bad player to ruin the game than it is for a team effort to win it.  In Paintball 2, if one player hangs back to avoid dying, but, in doing so, allows the enemy team to capture the flag over and over, he can single handedly screw the entire team and allow the enemy to win.  It's difficult for experienced players NOT to get frustrated and act in a hostile manner, even if it's just an honest newbie mistake.  League has a concept of "feeding".  If a new player repeatedly charges into enemies and dies, the enemies level up faster, giving them more momentum to steamroll your team.  Very different gameplay, but the end result is the same: One bad player can screw your team over more by playing poorly than if he wasn't even in the game at all.

The reason I find this interesting is because I didn't think there were really any other popular games that had this degree of "newbie-can-screw-you-ness" (for lack of a better term).  If you look at some other popular games, like Counter-Strike, it doesn't really matter as much if some new guy runs out and gets shot at the beginning of the round.  Your team can still compensate for it, and, worst case, it just costs 1 point for the round.  The fact that LoL is so successful despite having mechanics that are very anti-newbie really intrigues me.  It gives me hope that Paintball2 can be a popular game while maintaining the high-intensity, hardcore mechanics.

PiCaSSo

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Re: League of Legends vs. Paintball 2
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2012, 07:20:17 PM »
I always thought it would make DP more competitive and attractive if there was a system of achievement earning players classifications like NEWBIE, INTERMEDIATE, NOVICE, DP MASTER.  You could still have servers that allowed all players but servers could be created that only allowed specific classifications of players to play and either earn their way to a higher classification or demote them to a lower classification based on achievement or foul play.  I have no doubt this could be a little complex to create because it would have to be a system that was capable of knowing true achievement vs a couple of players joining up just to run their stats up to gain higher level access.  Something similar to this anyway.  Regardless, I have no doubt it would boost the player fan base and maybe even bring back some of the older players...  

MyeRs

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Re: League of Legends vs. Paintball 2
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2012, 08:01:13 PM »
Firstly, it's hard to compare DP2 to LoL, just because the types of game are so different, but there are similarities/differences that can be pulled out.

I don't think LoL is that anti-newbie --- at level 1, you're playing against other level 1s. If you lose a lot, you're paired with other people who lose a lot. (same for winning) This makes you against players of relatively even skill. So, while you're learning and confused about the items / champions and whatnot, you're playing with other people who have the same problems. No matter what level or elo (ranking system once you hit level 30) - you're always playing with people around your level. I agree with both games 1 person can ruin a game. This is the same no matter what level you play in. ---- You'd think Speed servers / 30s spawn / Reg spawn -- would be something along these lines. But, everyone just stays in the speed servers. There's no incentive for them to move on. More XP the longer the revive in a server??  (ALSO, Leveling = reason to stay in game, and once you're 30, ELO is reason --- oh, and the punishment of potentially getting banned).

League also has a more competitive environment. This gives players something to strive for. Pro players are all getting thousands of viewers to just watch them play. People WANT to get as good as them. Everyone knows they play 15hrs a day, and still for some reason admires them. (It's usually lower-level or elo players watching daily streams) Meaning the new players truly want to improve, and go out of their way to improve. This is lacking in DP, because for some reason it's really hard to find a new player who speaks proper english. I remember in DP, a lot of people would troll/rage shk for being extremely active. Playing a lot was seen as bad. To the point where people played under newbie/noname (people still do).

Friends list and stuff has been mentioned - it's just more convenient. I'm used to IRC, I like it, but opening up 2 separate things sucks. In fullscreen I rather type: /msg Jitspoe lets get a scrim after? ---- instead of alt-tab and open IRC. A lot of people just sit on IRC talking. If there was a built in chat, they could talk while playing. (In game chat > other program/browser).

League of Legends is proof that graphics DO NOT MEAN MUCH. But it's also proof, for some reason, that realism isn't needed. Honestly, with DP2's style of play, this could be an awesome toony-ish game. A model similar to the background on forums? Toonyish textures? It's got to be easier than realism. A toony game that doesn't look great will be liked more than a realistic game that doesn't look well. (ALSO, HR4 ON DOWNLOAD AT THE VERY LEAST! I've gotten some people in my League team to play DP, and default textures made them not want to try it).

Tutorial -- You added this (I haven't tried it, yet) - but that's a positive step. DP2 has a lot of tricks to learn, so does League. Tutorials wont teach you everything, but give you a base knowledge. This was a perfect addition in improving DP.

Leaving game penalties (this results in a ban in League after too many times, just like attitude can cause in bans) -- But, we don't have matchmaking, and DP / FPS games in general, wouldn't support this. Only way to fix this is as you mentioned, XP / Rewards. (Crossfire had something in reference to this. You'd lose gold if you left a server before the map finished - wasn't extreme, but happened). THIS WILL NOT WORK WITH CURRENT DP. I often only go into pubs because I see someone I want to talk to - and I leave when I'm done talking to them. (not interested in Italy 24/7). This would mean you need to be able to buy perks (cool models that dont give an advantage? Diff colour helmet? Colourful guns? Think of any random thing that makes someone stand out).

Maps - as you said: Dp has 1 character, lots of maps. League is the opposite. BUT, LoL goes back and remakes old champions, and they control the amount of champions. It's only really a money grab now, since they have suddenly been releasing champs way to fast. But basically, DP should control the amount of maps, and they should have to go through a longer/harder process to get released. ('x' amount of maps in the game, with a new map released per build. Makes the community look forward to builds, because lets be honest - most builds don't have something that interesting for the average player).

DP2 is far easier to get into a game - just like most FPS games are. BUT League advertises itself and it's community on their front page. So, to you it's not interesting. But to more competitive players it is. It gives information about streamers, tournaments, new champions, new skins, sales, etc..etc...

The difference is League has a huge organization behind it, but the updates they do are ones DP never needs to think of. They balance games (that's like tweaking a map) - they make visual updates, which DP needs, and they buff-nerf champions to make every champion balanced (which is the major part of each patch - DP never needs to do this). But, the difference is Riot doesn't do too much advertising. Now that the game got big, it advertises itself.

Every game has a lot of knowledge required to be the best. THIS IS A GOOD THING. But, the difference is: In League, every single NA team wants to play TSM (who was the best NA team) - They want to see where they stand, they want to prove they can be the best by trying to beat them. In DP2, teams avoid the better teams. But, that's because a lot of current players don't want to be competitive - but I don't feel people put the effort to be competitive without looking up to "the current best" to have something to strive for. That's how most games are, and the amount of viewers their streaming gets is proof of that.

ALSO - LADDERS/TOURNAMENTS ETCETC. When I match with my team in League, we get points per win, lose points per loss, and get rated on a ladder of like 100k teams. (We were top 100 in season 2 ;) ). It lets us see where we stand, and gives us a reason to win.

UnRateD

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Re: League of Legends vs. Paintball 2
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2012, 08:34:06 PM »
Good analysis, here's my opinion as someone who has enjoyed both DP and LoL.

@Jits

LoL tends to update weekly from what I've seen, but every lets say once a month, it might skip a week of updating, or add an extra update; the game is constantly changing, improving, adjusting to the player's needs. Riot has to be probably one of, if not THE, best company in adjusting the game to keep it balanced for players since as you pointed out, there are a lot of variables in the game.

The friends list is brilliant, not only lets you play with your friends which is extremely important since League never tends to get boring when doing premade 5s, but it also allows you to follow other players, which is an interactive bonus.

The comment on complexity is interesting. For a new player with little previous knowledge of mobas or LoL, its complicated at a certain point. When i first started i just sort of said intercourse it, and played with whatever was in the recommended items using the little bit of knowledge I had gained from the tutorial. But the real fun is when you start to get the hang of it, and realise just how detailed the game really is. How much every little thing matters. And once you used that to step into ranked play, the competitive scene for me is very enjoyable. DP would be able to achieve this level of fun if it had the swift, broad competition offered by League.

Also the fact that you cannot leave during a game means not only is every game lasting, but it makes you come back for more, noone likes to end on a losing streak, or leave when theyre doing well. Plus the sheer variety of champions, runes, masteries, and other variables for me atleast prompt more play to learn about the different factors involved in the game.

And LoL evades its expected anti newbie nature by matching up people of similar game numbers and levels. Constant play along with the extremely helpful 'champion spotlights' videos that Riot has on youtube where youre taught about a certain champion in 5 minutes allows people to gain the necessary knowledge to keep on getting better, eventually going into ranked.

Its an unfair comparison to make because Riot is a huge company and youre one guy, but considering how great a game DP still is with such limited resources is a testament to you.

xoxo

edit: i left myers' team leading to him having to be hospitalised. completely serious.

Toxiic

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Re: League of Legends vs. Paintball 2
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2012, 09:54:11 PM »
Ok since we are talking about league of legends I will make a statement, LoL can't be compared to DPB2 myers has mentioned already, fps=/=ets games. The game is constantly updated, do you know why? It's to secure that there is no hacking, everytime there is an update, the game overwrites all the files and sets it to what riot game wants it to be. Not only are the updates to prevent hacking to be done of anytype, but also to catch the hackers, how? Simple there is a constant file scanning of files, and if there is a hacker, admins give this info to the "tribunal" and they decied to ban a player Acc, they don't even need to hardware ban a player or ip, because they know that player will return to play the game, and just play normally. This type of system allows the new/old players not say stuff like "hackers" and all that good hackusationz. Now jitspoe you must be wondering why would they allow a hacker back in? Well you see it's a every logical answer, because when the PVP.net client scans all the files, riot games patches that hack, allowing them to be sure that a player well not be able to use that hack, and on top of this almost impossible system to bypass and hack, they know that people willjust give up on making hacks, or players will just give up on using hacks due to the constant patching/account banning because we all know that it takes time and effort to level up. Maybe this will explain newbies the real deal with the constant updates.


Like unrated said, riotgames is a huge company, but they did start off small (obvsly). Riot games has people working for them that will make better graphics/ideas of gamplay enhancement. This game had people who would work for them for free, but were discarded off, Sure this game doesn't make money, but once again there were people willing to pay.... If this game is going to go anywhere, it's going to go to the trash, because of players/committe that isn't constantly on/playing and alot more things I can say that are inconsistent about this game but I will leave that to you do thing about. Don't take any of my things personaly jits, I mean I have ideas that could actualy increase people that will play this game, **cough like my idea of tut. But hey who cares what I have to say because " ToXiiC=zaltekk" right??


I will say this again if you would like my help/ideas I will help you with it. Hurryaa you got a person willing to help, but will his help be taken? Find out on the next episode of DBZ!!


MyeRs

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Re: League of Legends vs. Paintball 2
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2012, 10:20:36 AM »
Okay, Toxiic doesn't know what he's talking about.

He has a paragraph about hacking, when League isn't concerned with hacking. Every FPS game will always have to put more time into stopping cheaters. There aren't many possible ways to cheat in LoL without it being extremely obvious, plus all "real" tournament games require lolrecorder + streams etc.. So cheating is something that never gets accused, and never even gets mentioned.

The tribunal also has no impact on cheating. They vote to suspend accounts for: Negative Attitude / Leaving Game AFK / Intentional Feeding / Helping enemy team etc... --- This is just a group of anyone over the level of 30 who votes, and if a certain % votes ban, the player receives a ban. (It's purely account based, just like most games where your account matters more than you. People put money and time on their accounts, that gets removed - not the player. So, if the player is "addicted" they will restart on a new account).

jitspoe

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Re: League of Legends vs. Paintball 2
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2012, 06:27:25 PM »
Posting this for ViciouZ, as he apparently doesn't log his IRC chat. :)

[20:21:50] <ViciouZ> interesting LoL comparison
[20:22:25] <ViciouZ> i'm not sure you can really compare them though
[20:22:44] <ViciouZ> it's not really the genre so much as the generation of the game
[20:23:11] <ViciouZ> sort of like the difference between the web and then "web 2.0"
[20:23:55] <ViciouZ> quake 2, warcraft, all that age of game, you had a base game
[20:24:20] <ViciouZ> and that game stayed the same - you could play it a hundred times, and develop new strategies, but it was all the same content and the same gameplay
[20:24:45] <ViciouZ> web 2.0 comes along and heavily emphasises user customisability and content
[20:24:57] <ViciouZ> and the newer generation of games is also about user customisation
[20:25:38] <ViciouZ> cod4+, LoL etc all have an element of player customisation that means that as you progress through the game you get new content and new options
[20:25:49] <ViciouZ> it's the constant rewards system that keeps people playing
[20:26:21] <ViciouZ> oh you want to try x gun that's single shot but powerful? better get to level 54 then
[20:26:55] <ViciouZ> you want to make your soldier look like a clown? better unlock pink and blue polka dot camo
[20:27:28] <ViciouZ> i know i got bored of CoD4 pretty fast after hitting level 55 and being unable to progress
[20:28:14] <ViciouZ> i just don't think dp is the same paradigm of game, and newer players are used to not just better graphics but also the constant reward system that makes things more interesting

Justinph5

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Re: League of Legends vs. Paintball 2
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2012, 08:19:37 PM »
Posting this for ViciouZ, as he apparently doesn't log his IRC chat. :)
Ah, that explains this much clearer than trying to talk about the game mechanics of each.

Right now the in games are either rewards based, or sandbox...

Toxiic

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Re: League of Legends vs. Paintball 2
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2012, 12:47:55 PM »
Okay, Toxiic doesn't know what he's talking about.

He has a paragraph about hacking, when League isn't concerned with hacking. Every FPS game will always have to put more time into stopping cheaters. There aren't many possible ways to cheat in LoL without it being extremely obvious, plus all "real" tournament games require lolrecorder + streams etc.. So cheating is something that never gets accused, and never even gets mentioned.

The tribunal also has no impact on cheating. They vote to suspend accounts for: Negative Attitude / Leaving Game AFK / Intentional Feeding / Helping enemy team etc... --- This is just a group of anyone over the level of 30 who votes, and if a certain % votes ban, the player receives a ban. (It's purely account based, just like most games where your account matters more than you. People put money and time on their accounts, that gets removed - not the player. So, if the player is "addicted" they will restart on a new account).
Aren't we suppose to take the good things from LoL and hopefully get them implanted in DP? And I never said that people are accused, I said people don't have to worry about hackers because of a almost unhackable system they have created. People who leave/afk are dealt by a different and separate system called leaverbuster, it's automated and no people required for this process, it's based on player history,honor,how many times the has been reported and also about connectivity logs. Although this system is every strict it's does have problems, I'm currenty helping riot games fix these problems, and I have seen some improvement too, i told them about error logs and how it should be used to benefit the player and improve the system

Myers, that's what I said but you have said it in a much better way, thanks :)

coLa

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Re: League of Legends vs. Paintball 2
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2012, 02:49:23 PM »
I've played LoL for 5 minutes. I've played DP for over 6 years, on and off. Nuff Sed.

UnRateD

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Re: League of Legends vs. Paintball 2
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2012, 02:54:23 PM »
I've played LoL for 5 minutes. I've played DP for over 6 years, on and off. Nuff Sed.

lol, that allows you to make such a fair comparison. youre not very clever.

Toxiic

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Re: League of Legends vs. Paintball 2
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2012, 11:35:58 PM »
I've played LoL for 5 minutes. I've played DP for over 6 years, on and off. Nuff Sed.
K thanks MLG pro that played and finished a match in 5 mins. I have been banned more on dp then I have played Dp, and already caught up to my hours of dp on LoL nuff said. Such a useful thing to say!!!

coLa

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Re: League of Legends vs. Paintball 2
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2012, 08:50:48 PM »
In other words.. LoL is a horrible game. I'd rather play runescape.

Toxiic

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Re: League of Legends vs. Paintball 2
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2012, 10:57:15 AM »
In other words.. LoL is a horrible game. I'd rather play runescape.
yep its a horrible game, sooo bad that it had a 2 million dollar competion. Go play runescape and scr3w yourself with that dead game.



 

SuperMAn

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Re: League of Legends vs. Paintball 2
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2012, 01:13:06 PM »
You are comparing Paintball to the wrong game.  TF2 is easily the most successful PC FPS game and it is a good example of what DP2 needs to succeed (and I am not even talking about hats..... Although hats would be great =) ).
I will touch on a few of the things you mentioned in your comparison to LoL.



TF2
Updates  -  Almost weekly updates, new items, game engine fixes
Accessibility - Very newbie friendly, tied to steam account, training/coaching mode, Valve servers (beginner servers) tied to matchmaking system, different game modes (Control points, Payload, KOTH, Siege(Attack/Defend), Saxton Hale, Others)

Game Complexity  -  Comparable to DP, Relatively easy for new players to learn but advanced techniques take a lot of practice (rocket jumping, Sticky jumping).  Tons of different weapons, nothing is really OP though (if anything stock weapons the best)

Maps  -  Split into 2 sections, Valve and community created maps.  Tons and tons of maps, Mappers can be direclty compensated for their maps ( Map Stamp System )

Gameplay - If tons of players leave server bots (with excellent AI) auto join.

Competitive -  Very popular competitive game, TF2Lobby for anyone who wants to play in a "PUG"

Community -   TF2 honestly has a pretty amazing community.  Valve encourages players to create maps/ items (Steam workshop).  HUGE competitive scene, international tournaments, TF2lobby.com, Community maps (map stamp system).  Custom server mods, hats, unusual effects, server donator benefits (donate x$ to a server each month for benefits such as:  end of round immunity etc.  TF2 Trading economy is valued at about 2 billion dollars a year.  50 Million just for hats.           TF2s community is so large that there are communities within the community. 




My suggestions...   Said this in countless other threads, but I guess it can't hurt to get it out there again.


Steam                                                   -  Get this game on steam!  If possible link steam account to dplogin.

Certified Server / Certified Maps / Matchmaking / XP Rewards         -  Add the option for "Certified" servers.  Certified servers will be pre-configured with a locked maplist and settings.  Matchmaking ("Play Now" button) system will only use certified servers.  Maybe include an XP system with levels and rewards.

Mapping                                                 -  Pick official DP maps to be used on certified servers (should be very popular maps only)   Idea behind this is that the Certified servers will only be used by "newbies".   Players eventually learn to browse servers and potentially find ones that they like.  Obviously this only works with an increased player base though.

AI                                                       -  Need a better one.


I think this would be a good start to help increase the player base.
I could add tons of detail but I am at work and should probably get a bit of real work done.

« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 01:38:53 PM by SuperMAn »

b00nlander

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Re: League of Legends vs. Paintball 2
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2012, 04:50:50 PM »
First of all, I want to say a big

THANK YOU

Not for all the work that you have put into this game (we all know that this has been incredible effort from you), but for actually writing such a reflective post on the state of the game.

And now, back on topic: as mentioned by several users before me, it is quite difficult comparing DP to LoL. But on the other hand, some points are valid and should be analyzed further. Let me share my thoughts on some topics:

#1: updates/update frequency
-> can't and doesn't really have to be compared

#2: newbly-friendliness
-> it's good to have a tutorial, although I never felt that it was really important in this game, as the basics of DP are pretty much straight forward. Most things can be learned by simply interacting with other players and practicing. A strength of LoL surely is the PUG and Match Making capabilities - in a PUG, players of similar skill are (usually) brought together, in order to have an interesting game where not one newbie ruins the round.  And all of that happens in-game, so no IRC or other chat is required. Although, on a sidenote, nobody used IRC when I started playing, we all found our matches on public servers.

#3: finishing matches
In LoL, you are basically forced to finish a PUG or Match, as you are (or can be) punished if you leave prematurely. In addition, you won't get any of the perks you receive when finished ("Experience Points" and other achievement-relevant stats). In DP, if you leave a PUG (or just a map on a public server), you will not have to fear losing anything. For a non-organized PUG, that might not even be a problem, but it adds to the feeling of not having a "consistant rival".
And it gets a lot worse with matches: as there is no official record of matches or any info about those in general, people (and whole teams) can and do simply drop out of matches when they feel the urge to. That ruins matches here and there (not sure about the frequency of that happening nowadays, or even the frequency of matches happening...), without any consequence.
One problem surely is the issue of freely selected maps for matches (and, following, the decision of the tie map). If a simpler matching format could be found, and perks be introduced for playing and finishing matches in that specified or "official" manner, this behaviour would surely be reduced.

I'm surely and have been for years one of the biggest supporters of an official stats recording system. I think a visible stats system is the first step towards generating more interest in matches. I still hope that this might one day be introduced - and for DP, this seems to be the better way than to introduce some kind of XP/leveling mechanism (my personal opinion). Oh, and separate (and possibly different) stats systems for matching and PUGging would probably be useful, too.

#4: striving to beat the best
Myers wrote: "every single NA team wants to play TSM (who was the best NA team)".
There were times in DP, when eR33t was winning almost every game and other teams tried many things to be able to beat them (such as picking new maps, practicing new tactics for CTF), we even had a tournament for a whole summer. Ever since then, all "improvement" has been to focus on rushing on maps with lots of ice fields on them. I remember discussing strategies for maps with members of my and players from other teams (and we tied eR33t in DPCUP, if I remember correctly). None of that has been done (in my awareness) after 2006/2007.
I believe that if there were official match servers with official settings and a selected map list, this might return. Trying to beat the best by figuring out how to improve the own gameplay and not by choosing maps that other teams have no practice on is what teams should be striving for (my personal opinion).


That's all I can think of right now :)  




jitspoe

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Re: League of Legends vs. Paintball 2
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2012, 06:17:52 PM »
SuperMAn: Interesting comparison.  In all honesty, I pretty much quit playing Valve games when they added leveling, items, unlocks, and all that crap.  I just want to play a game to have fun.  Somebody killing me with a weapon that does more damage simply because they have more time to play is not fun.  Neither is half the server playing one class just trying to get achievements or whatever.  I guess I need to check out TF2 again.  I wasn't aware they added bots.

There are certainly other games that this can be compared to that are more directly comparable, but I figured LoL was worth analyzing since it has such a huge population and there appeared to be a lot of overlap between people that enjoy this game and people that enjoy LoL.

b00n: Thanks for the feedback.  Having a ranking system would certainly be easier than implementing incentives to level up with XP.

SuperMAn

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Re: League of Legends vs. Paintball 2
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2012, 06:33:54 PM »
Having a ranking system would certainly be easier than implementing incentives to level up with XP.

How would you do a ranking system without XP and levels?  Just on the number of kills / caps? Or are we talking about only for the competitive side?

Narga

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Re: League of Legends vs. Paintball 2
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2012, 09:20:04 PM »
I thought it would be cool to have a Team Fortress mode for Paintball 2 or something. I think Team Fortress with Paintball weapons would be interesting. I've been thinking about it for a while actually.

jitspoe

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Re: League of Legends vs. Paintball 2
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2012, 01:45:40 PM »
How would you do a ranking system without XP and levels?  Just on the number of kills / caps? Or are we talking about only for the competitive side?
You'd be ranked against other players based on your performance instead of just gaining xp / levels for playing repeatedly.  It sounds like the Elo rating system is pretty popular for competitive games, so something along those lines.