Author Topic: Newmap: Inspiration  (Read 18598 times)

deadfroggy

  • Autococker
  • Posts: 562
Re: Newmap: Inspiration
« Reply #60 on: April 09, 2013, 05:45:23 AM »
got enough time to watch it then thanks for the feedback. i forgot about the ammo entitys and stuff.
only thing i didnt undertsand was you said use hint brushes where you had the high r_speeds. would you explain please. Sorry

omni

  • 68 Carbine
  • Posts: 319
Re: Newmap: Inspiration
« Reply #61 on: April 09, 2013, 07:27:59 AM »
No problem.

When your map loads, the game loads the entire map, even the parts you are not looking at or the parts you are in, you don't want it to do that, so use hint brushes and divide your map into sections (I'm sure there is a tutorial on it have a play about with hint brushes it took me a while to get used to then) that way you tell the game that the bridge is different to the water for example.

There may be a tutorial on it somewhere, I don't know.

Edit: You can use any brush just make sure you  select hint in the surface properties window, it might help with being able to actually see your map, hint brushes get in the way (or I did it wrong)
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 08:06:56 AM by omni »

deadfroggy

  • Autococker
  • Posts: 562
Re: Newmap: Inspiration
« Reply #62 on: April 09, 2013, 07:49:32 PM »
There was:
http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=11297.0
mind making a tutorial omni since i dont think knack or someone is around anymore..

and by the ideas in the demo did you mean like this?

omni

  • 68 Carbine
  • Posts: 319
Re: Newmap: Inspiration
« Reply #63 on: April 10, 2013, 12:34:00 AM »
Yeah, glad I made myself easy to understand.

There was:
http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=11297.0
mind making a tutorial omni since i dont think knack or someone is around anymore..

No I don't mind but ill need more practise, I'm no expert. In the meantime I would suggest dowoadig the newest version of corruo ( http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=25710.0) in the zip there is a map file take a lot at that and see how I did it, I don't know other maps that use them so.

Edit: ok after some quick searching around I found this I hope it helps it explains what a brush does to help optimise the map. http://panjoo.tastyspleen.net/rust/tutorials/hint/hint.htm

deadfroggy

  • Autococker
  • Posts: 562
Re: Newmap: Inspiration
« Reply #64 on: April 11, 2013, 01:14:42 AM »
I had a look at curruo and tastyspleen. is this how you do it?

MyeRs

  • Autococker
  • Posts: 1635
Re: Newmap: Inspiration
« Reply #65 on: April 11, 2013, 12:38:15 PM »
All trolling aside, I think the gameplay on this would be awful, but the map itself isn't that bad. Visually it's alright, but it's still better than a lot of people who have been mapping for years and think they're very good at mapping. So surprisingly not bad. Certainly an upgrade over most of the maps you've made.

If making good gameplay was easy, every cusoman map would be played. There's a lot of mappers who can make things visually appealing, but not many can do that while incorporating gameplay. Keep working at it though.

deadfroggy

  • Autococker
  • Posts: 562
Re: Newmap: Inspiration
« Reply #66 on: April 11, 2013, 04:55:18 PM »
All trolling aside, I think the gameplay on this would be awful, but the map itself isn't that bad. Visually it's alright, but it's still better than a lot of people who have been mapping for years and think they're very good at mapping. So surprisingly not bad. Certainly an upgrade over most of the maps you've made.

If making good gameplay was easy, every cusoman map would be played. There's a lot of mappers who can make things visually appealing, but not many can do that while incorporating gameplay. Keep working at it though.

thankyou! i'll be able to make maps with both at some point. its just practice , practice makes perfect as they say.

BASEBALLDUDE

  • Autococker
  • Posts: 703
Re: Newmap: Inspiration
« Reply #67 on: April 11, 2013, 09:12:29 PM »

There's a lot of mappers who can make things visually appealing, but not many can do that while incorporating gameplay. Keep working at it though.
That's funny cuz I personally find gameplay to be a lot easier than appearance.

omni

  • 68 Carbine
  • Posts: 319
Re: Newmap: Inspiration
« Reply #68 on: April 12, 2013, 02:50:27 AM »
That's funny cuz I personally find gameplay to be a lot easier than appearance.

I guess different people find different things easier, I find it ridiculously hard to make a map that has good gameplay, but they look ok.

MyeRs

  • Autococker
  • Posts: 1635
Re: Newmap: Inspiration
« Reply #69 on: April 12, 2013, 12:50:09 PM »
That's funny cuz I personally find gameplay to be a lot easier than appearance.

This could come across as rude, but there's a reason nobody who plays or has played this game competitively doesn't know any maps by you. Pub maps don't require gameplay, they are quick respawn. Match maps with 60 second respawn do, for the most part. The maps that stick around through the years are typically due to gameplay. Everyone always overrates their own maps, thinking it looks nice / plays nice, cause a few of their friends say that.

RoBiNandL!nk

  • Autococker
  • Posts: 571
Re: Newmap: Inspiration
« Reply #70 on: April 12, 2013, 01:13:23 PM »
tbh i don't think you can really make a map completely based on gameplay. I think it's all luck. The only way to do so is say, you make your map. You test it with 5 other people for hours upon hours to see if it finally works correctly. I don't think anyone in the mapping community or matching community has ever done that... ever.

EDIT-- This is based on personal experience. My map Inner_Sanctum imo is one of the best looking maps but one of the paths is just insanely fast and it kinda forces you to go mid, no one goes low (the best looking part of my map) With the new map I'm making right now I would actually like to test gameplay if anyone is interested.

deadfroggy

  • Autococker
  • Posts: 562
Re: Newmap: Inspiration
« Reply #71 on: April 12, 2013, 02:10:51 PM »
id be happy to test it.

RoBiNandL!nk

  • Autococker
  • Posts: 571
Re: Newmap: Inspiration
« Reply #72 on: April 12, 2013, 03:31:36 PM »
I'll be on irc in around 30minute-1hour it is nowhere near completion but I would like some more ideas and such. connect the the #paintball channel on IRC and I'll shoot you a P.M.

EDIT -- Or #pbmappers I'm always in there.

BASEBALLDUDE

  • Autococker
  • Posts: 703
Re: Newmap: Inspiration
« Reply #73 on: April 12, 2013, 06:11:24 PM »
This could come across as rude, but there's a reason nobody who plays or has played this game competitively doesn't know any maps by you. Pub maps don't require gameplay, they are quick respawn. Match maps with 60 second respawn do, for the most part. The maps that stick around through the years are typically due to gameplay. Everyone always overrates their own maps, thinking it looks nice / plays nice, cause a few of their friends say that.
Well of course no one knows any maps by me because I just got started. nad plus nobody knows any maps by you so I wouldn't be talking. And if I wasn't clear, the reason I said gameplay is easier than appearance is because appearance can be tedious and annoying. Sometimes I hate designing something beautiful and then thinking, "this isn't going to affect the gameplay at all." But (almost) every good map has both appearance and gameplay. Deadfroggy's map has a decent amount of both.

RoBiNandL!nk

  • Autococker
  • Posts: 571
Re: Newmap: Inspiration
« Reply #74 on: April 12, 2013, 07:13:53 PM »
Only good maps with good gameplay = propanit1 80% of dt maps... and thats about it. Maybe wobluda, but too easy to camp.

deadfroggy

  • Autococker
  • Posts: 562
Re: Newmap: Inspiration
« Reply #75 on: April 16, 2013, 08:42:30 AM »
Beta 6 uploaded to first post.
if no bugs or problems are found by next week ill probably release as final.

BASEBALLDUDE

  • Autococker
  • Posts: 703
Re: Newmap: Inspiration
« Reply #76 on: April 17, 2013, 06:20:21 PM »
Can't wait for final version! Gonna be awesome.

jitspoe

  • Administrator
  • Autococker
  • Posts: 18802
Re: Newmap: Inspiration
« Reply #77 on: April 19, 2013, 11:23:20 PM »
The visuals are looking better.  Unfortunately, all the details you have, combined with the fact that almost everybody is visible, means it's choppy even on a high end system.  The r_speeds are insanely high.  You need to work on ways to block visibility so you can't see from one base all the way to the other, and everything in between.

The low path is still cumbersome and awkward to get out of.  The low spawns are really bad, too.  You spawn right in front of the enemy team, and it's basically a matter of who fires first.

I've attached a demo of some beta testing on it, so you can get an idea of how it plays and what some of the issues are.

MyeRs

  • Autococker
  • Posts: 1635
Re: Newmap: Inspiration
« Reply #78 on: April 20, 2013, 09:42:34 AM »
Well of course no one knows any maps by me because I just got started. nad plus nobody knows any maps by you so I wouldn't be talking. And if I wasn't clear, the reason I said gameplay is easier than appearance is because appearance can be tedious and annoying. Sometimes I hate designing something beautiful and then thinking, "this isn't going to affect the gameplay at all." But (almost) every good map has both appearance and gameplay. Deadfroggy's map has a decent amount of both.

No, it doesn't have a decent amount of both. Appearance is tedious and annoying, but gameplay is something that for the most part can't be planned, and is much more trial and error. It takes much more time to get a good map that will be balanced and played. An example is your map, Neon, it's just random clusters of paths that are different speeds. I would argue it has average appearance, as any relatively okay mapper can have decent appearance, but 0 gameplay, as you've never broken into the competitive scene to understand what is needed. Gameplay is a different knowledge about the game, therefore making it harder. It's not BSP knowledge. PS: Everyone knows Applejuice.bsp

In regards to this map: Played it lastnight on beta server:
- The "brick" side-paths are very narrow, to much like a hallway, make that path more interesting, less boring.
- The map itself is very square. High square brick outer walls.
- The water/high is such a big drop for such a small map. Makes it feel oversized
- The flag placement is not very good, doesn't need to have 2 flags. It's not like you can really set up grabs.
- The obvious FPS problems in base

The map just felt oversized for such a small map while playing it. There weren't any real jumps. Getting out of water was annoying. The concept of the map was pretty cool though, and it looked alright.

deadfroggy

  • Autococker
  • Posts: 562
Re: Newmap: Inspiration
« Reply #79 on: April 21, 2013, 02:11:03 AM »
The only thing i can really change without changing alot is the first one. I was actually planning on putting windows and stuff around the outside with like porches and stuff hanging off but i would think that would make the r-speeds so much higher. Making the last point more to point a bigger point.

Thank you for your feedback. Cant work atm away for about 4 days.