Official Maplist: Discussion

[jitspoe]

luckmore: I just matched on that map a few weeks ago.  It's really popular with Brazilian players, I think... for some reason...

Foxhound: I agree that we should be focusing on getting new players to stay, and I think a solid list of high-quality official maps will help with that.

Nye: No offense taken.  I'm glad you're providing feedback.  It doesn't really take a long time to make a forum post, and I want to get this started sooner rather than later because it's going to be a gradual process that will take a while.

Superman: I think that explains it pretty well.  Any features related to stats and ranking would not work very well with the hodegpodge mess of maps we have now.  Like I said, if both clans agree, you're welcome to continue matching as you have been.  It doesn't really change that for unofficial, untracked maps.

[MrPeach]

noone from euros wanted to have this maplist.

I would appreciate if you speak for yourself.
I think it's great idea. It should be done if we want ranking system to be implemented.
I don't understand people who complain about it. I'm sure most of the clans would agree for playing decent map which isn't in official maplist.

[Foxhound]

If that is how it's going to be used, its not for "matching" its for "matchmaking" its where newbies can be put into a 5v5 match with other people based on their rank. Not used as a tool for us old school players so we don't have to worry about map choice.

I just recently played a game Super Monday Night Combat. Very small community is on it just like DP. Matchmaking takes 7 minutes and that's if you include euro servers. This is frustrating when you just want to play.

[Chalk]

O_o

Chill...he's giving you the option to host whatever type of match you want to. You just won't be able to boost your stats by playing some new, terrible map that no other clans know. And on the rare occasion that you DO actually find/make a good map , it's not like you won't be able to vote it to the official map list for new builds.

Why would you not want a stat system that accurately represents skill level, rather than your ability to pick an unknown map for an easy win?

I honestly don't see how it could hurt at all....as long as it leads to a ranking system and a more organized matching experience.

[Foxhound]

Who needs to chill?

[prozajik]

I think its pretty good idea. Although, people still need to have oppurtunity to play non-oficial maps. I would say, this would give new form of real/fun matches.
Real matches would be tracked with statistics etc. and fun matches would be just maplist-free matches.

Also, i think people wont accept this unless its presented along "league" system. Basically what would this do is reduce maps that would be played in matches for NO reason -> fewer players wanna play.

Honestly, I really like this idea of real/fun match, but it needs some improvements. IMO, with league system it would be great way to get (hopefully) players to play this game again.

[luckmore]

I think its pretty good idea. Although, people still need to have oppurtunity to play non-oficial maps. I would say, this would give new form of real/fun matches.
Real matches would be tracked with statistics etc. and fun matches would be just maplist-free matches.

Also, i think people wont accept this unless its presented along "league" system. Basically what would this do is reduce maps that would be played in matches for NO reason -> fewer players wanna play.

Honestly, I really like this idea of real/fun match, but it needs some improvements. IMO, with league system it would be great way to get (hopefully) players to play this game again.

That would be cool.

[RoBiNandL!nk]

Basically what would this do is reduce maps that would be played in matches for NO reason -> fewer players wanna play.

Obviously it is for a reason. The maplist is a great idea. Better quality map = better quality game/playing. It can only improve the game.

[HaRmonY]

I really like the idea, this would be a first step to improve the matchingscene.
The next step is to make consistent rules for matching.

[RoBiNandL!nk]

I really like the idea, this would be a first step to improve the matchingscene.
The next step is to make consistent rules for matching.

We've needed this for a long long time....

[cusoman]

If I wanted my maps to be included in the approved maplist, would they need to be out of beta? The requirements state they will need to be GPL'd for the community (i assume .map sharing on the downloads page)

Additionally, how will new maps be made and tested? Is the mapping committee going to be given the power to "approve" maps, or will there be a community vote to add new maps ever few months? Will match servers actually restrict map choices, or will games played with unofficial maps be labeled as "scrims"?

- Cusoman

[jitspoe]

Cuso: The general idea I had was this:

Every month or two, we would have a vote for map to become an official map.  This map could be a beta map or a map with a lot of issues but good gameplay potential.  During the next month or so (while the next map vote is going on), we would take the top map and work on fixing every issue and make it as good as possible.  This will likely be a full community effort.  Ideally, we will have clans doing trial matches on each iteration of the map and providing feedback for improvements.  We might see about having some source control option for the map editing so more than one person can work on it.  The GPL requirement is there for a couple reasons:
a) I'm trying to make all of the content GPL compatible.
b) If a bug is discovered in the map later, or something needs to be changed for some reason, the map source would be necessary to fix it well.

Match servers probably won't restrict the maps, but potential future features, such as ranking, will probably only work on official maps.  I'm not sure what the extent will be, but I wanted to get this started soon since it's probably going to take a year or two to build up a decent list of maps.

[MyeRs]

Better looking maps = new players playing the game rather than quitting off looks

Smaller amounts of maps played (hopefully, assuming ranking comes out making people wanting to play maps that affect ranking more often) = new players learn new maps easier, don't get lost each time they open a server. (I only played Syncmasters cable when I started, cause ub_cliff was the only map I knew, getting lost isn't fun).

Teams using the official maplist to match = teams focusing on improving on specific maps, rather than moving to new maps. Hopefully in the long run makes teams actually need teamwork to win, since there will be no map advantage.

I don't see any downside. I argued for this before, most people were against it. Most games don't have as many maps as DP has. That's why DP matching requires no real communicating other than recon. It'll increase competitiveness, it'll lead to better things like stats/rankings, it'll help new players learn the game if it's on pub servers, it'll make the game have nicer quality maps that most mappers are to lazy to do themselves.

[Rockyar_96]

very nice idea, will help this game a lot. And maybe there should be some special dir for the official maps and the "custom" maps. Also it would give the mapping community some boost as every mapper will want his map to be approved they will work harder. I think this really should have high priority as it also gives new mappers some idea how good maps look like.

But i think some old maps could also be somehow "approved". Maps like ub_rooftop or bankrob with real mapping quality could also be played on "classic" servers or similarly.

[HaRmonY]

Why would it take so much time? We only have to make a vote on the existing maps and pick the best. This is never going to take 1 or 2 years.

[omni]

I think this is a great idea a good step in the right direction not going mention all the points above because they have been mentioned but I agree this will help keep new players around. I for one am glad that there will be map shots, map info and other nesisarry files available with the official maps a step in the right direction.

I have a question though.

Will the map list(s) contain maps of other game modes other than ctf like KOTH and DM for example? I think it would be cool to see more game types; we already have potential in this area IE. there is no need to code in to make new game modes happen but they are not utilised enough In my opinion.

Also if a map is disliked by speed and pub players for example - like they keep leaving every time the map is on will it be removed for newer maps? Will there be a rotation to keep the game fresh?
 
Obviously not very often that would defeat the purpose.

[jitspoe]

Why would it take so much time? We only have to make a vote on the existing maps and pick the best. This is never going to take 1 or 2 years.

Take a look at some of the maps played regularly that are potential candidates for the official map list.

Now look at some maps from some other shooters that are popular right now.

Does that answer your question?  It's more than just selecting maps.  We need to really raise the bar on map quality as well.  Sure, we won't be able to make it look as nice as BF3, but it's still possible to do a lot better with the tech we have, and at least make it so new players aren't immediately turned off.

Also, it will be a while before there's anything that really needs an official map list, so there's no sense in rushing it.

Speaking of voting, only 2 people have voted so far.  Here's the thread for that (also linked in the first post):
http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=25978

omni: Once we get a large enough list of maps, we will probably cycle through and replace maps that get included with the game release, but I imagine once a map is officially accepted for ranking/stats/etc., it will still be available for official stat-tracked play, unless we just find the map too problematic for some reason and decide to completely remove it.

[Beppo]

totaly dont understand this idea, if u want to win a match u must win at least 2 maps- so u can simply ff the enemies map if u don´t like it. and as u all know the tie map must be accepted by both teams, so why do u want to stop the "map making progress"?
why should anyone of this community work on a map if he knows it wont be played bcuz of this maplist thread...
sorry but in my oppinion thats totaly nonsense.

[RoBiNandL!nk]

totaly dont understand this idea, if u want to win a match u must win at least 2 maps- so u can simply ff the enemies map if u don´t like it. and as u all know the tie map must be accepted by both teams, so why do u want to stop the "map making progress"?
why should anyone of this community work on a map if he knows it wont be played bcuz of this maplist thread...
sorry but in my oppinion thats totaly nonsense.

It forces people to make better quality maps... which is what we need in this game. Not SHAZAM55

[Beppo]

who decides which maps is good and which one not? its simple, about a year ago some clan called kaguya or sth always picked lockout vs us, at first we just ff´d it, but as soon as we started playing it vs them we got better and better on that map, nowadays i beat em on this map and to be honest sometimes i like it to play lockout, so why dont u wanna give such maps a chance? im sure much ppl dont like lockout and dont want to play on this map, but for other players its fun though.