Official Maplist: Discussion

[Rick]

or when the map is loading; have the server-wide announcement there.

Actually an alright idea.

Jitspoe, what are your thoughts on the current maps voted on? What would you vote for?

[jitspoe]

In a way, I was kind of hoping for a poorly constructed/incomplete map with good game play to rise to the top so we could revamp it.  The visual improvements that could be made to something like carpathian or pbcup_pforest are kind of minimal, without altering the map format.  Other changes to make the map more accessible might be a bit controversial.  For example, the back path in carpathian requires doing the "castle1 bd jump", but that only makes sense if you've played the game for a while and you're familiar with that jump.  If you step back and imagine seeing that path the first time you've ever played this game, it really makes no sense.  There's also the high middle area.  It wasn't really designed to be crossed (DT added clip brushes), but with certain trick jumps, it's possible to get around that.  Should it be "fixed" to make that impossible, or should the path be made more easily accessible to all players?  If it should be blocked off, there needs to be a better solution than invisible clip walls (fences or something?) so there's a visual, intuitive explanation for why you can't get across.

There are lots of things about DT maps in general that make them really inaccessible to new players, but experienced players might feel the map would be "ruined" if they were altered.

So... I have mixed feelings.  Not sure how best to approach some of these.

[BASEBALLDUDE]

How many maps will make the official maplist?

IMO if there is room for 25 or less, we should vary the styles of the maps so that we don't end up with 20 relatively similar maps. We don't really need 6 different DT maps.

[Clipz]

Well once someone can make better maps then DT we wont need 6 different dt maps. The problem is they have all been played by the better players for so long the new maps dont even have a chance really....

[omni]

It seems to be (PRO > NOOB) at the moment. If we could get people from pubs to come on the forums and give a vote, I think we would have a better range of data.

[Clipz]

The noobs dont stick around long enough to make it to the forums thats why its more PRO > NOOB

[omni]

That makes no sense certain people join the forums people who have played this game for a long time don't always go to the forums people who have played for like 3 weeks join the forums (Deathstar7 for example) the value of 'noobs' is underestimated because they are the ones who give most accurate feedback as to how the game needs to be changed, because they are new to the game.

The problem is they have all been played by the better players for so long the new maps don't even have a chance really....

As in my point above better players aren't the most important always, not with a community this small

[Clipz]

I guess, but they DON'T give feedback. Deathstar7 is ONE EXAMPLE, the majority of the players who post on the forums are NOT new. Yes the community is small which is why it is ran by the more "pro", "popular" players. I've tried to help a lot of new players. Most just don't understand or disappear to quick to help. It gets frustrating which is why a lot of "pros" don't bother helping anymore.

[LaZeRs]

(Deathstar7 for example)

Deathstar7 is ONE EXAMPLE

I wonder what Deathstar will think of this...

[omni]

Thats fair maybe the forum isn't the place for new players though, people don't always feel confident posting on here as a 'noob' I know I certainly didn't.

[prozajik]

My guess would be that the reason why 'noobs' arent respected here is because they cant provide enough reasoning behind their feedback. They might have some ideas, which in their minds would be cool, but they lack the experience to actually realise if it would work or not. While 'pros' can actually think if this would be good for 'noobs', 'noobs' cant do that. So there is obvious lack of angle of view.
Also maybe they dont know to post properly, they just throw down an idea and expect people to actually get caught in it and support them (i think this might work in other games, but here the community is too tight and is rly strict about which ideas likes ^^).
And here i thought of another problem, our mindset. 'Pros' are trying to keep game alive with suggestions/posts they make, while 'noobs' dont realise this so they are just going for the simple things, which they enjoy. And maybe we kinda dont like them for that, because they arent helping to keep this game alive, they arent doing the right thing -> we dont like them posting.

Just realised this is one hell of offtopic, well not gonna delete it ^^, leme just get back ontopic.

I think this maplist idea finally getting somewhere is rly good, i hope everything works out for it fine. And with the statistics working, that would be even better stuff for this game.
Although, i think its really important to set some number on how big the maplist will be, because either we want to just seperate good maps from the bad ones or our goal is to slowly get there as much maps as possible. Like if this is supposed to help maps in pb or just matching scene or both. I think there are quite some point of views on this and i think it would be better to make sure what is actual goal of this (maybe it was already said lol, if so i am sorry for bringing it back, but there were 4 pages and i was too lazy to read through all the comments, i just skipped through them briefly).
Also i have a technical (i guess?) idea, if you need to distinguish certified maps, you could just make another folder for them like you did with beta maps. I think it would be pretty decent solution so they dont get mixed up with non-certified maps, but there might be some downside i havent thought of, so think about it.

[BASEBALLDUDE]

One downside I can foresee with having an official maplist, especially if it's small, is that there will be whining and crying that so-and-so map isn't on the list and that so-and-so map doesn't deserve to be on the official maplist.

[jitspoe]

One downside I can foresee with having an official maplist, especially if it's small, is that there will be whining and crying that so-and-so map isn't on the list and that so-and-so map doesn't deserve to be on the official maplist.

The idea was to add a new map to the list every month or two, so if enough people think a map should be added, they can vote for it, and maybe it will get added next month.

[Clipz]

Its this actually in discussion? I hope this happens soon.

[BASEBALLDUDE]

The idea was to add a new map to the list every month or two, so if enough people think a map should be added, they can vote for it, and maybe it will get added next month.

OK that makes sense.

[Ace]

The idea was to add a new map to the list every month or two, so if enough people think a map should be added, they can vote for it, and maybe it will get added next month.

Could run it like a euro soccer league. Running ranking of a large list of maps. The top 25 or so make into the maplist for the next month, the bottom 25 or so stay in the lower rank, but are still in the large pool. After every month the lowest 2 or 3 from the top 25 move down, and the top 2 or 3 of the pool move up into the top 25. Just an idea.

[BASEBALLDUDE]

When will the official maplist be implemented? jitspoe should focus on this when the new bot AI comes.

[BASEBALLDUDE]

The other important thing is that there are a lot of really old, good maps out there of which nobody's ever heard because the people from that time period have gone inactive and those maps have been replaced by newer maps that may or may not be just as good. A solution to this problem is that jitspoe has always been active since this game was founded, so he could start an old school server with only old maps that were popular back in the day but have faded. Then, these maps will be rediscovered by the new population and are more likely to be considered when the official maplist is implemented.

[LaZeRs]

The other important thing is that there are a lot of really old, good maps out there of which nobody's ever heard because the people from that time period have gone inactive and those maps have been replaced by newer maps that may or may not be just as good. A solution to this problem is that jitspoe has always been active since this game was founded, so he could start an old school server with only old maps that were popular back in the day but have faded. Then, these maps will be rediscovered by the new population and are more likely to be considered when the official maplist is implemented.

... Or he could just change the rotation to his EV1-Alt Pub server a little by adding in the older maps you want in and run the same server.

[Clipz]

Baseball dude I could do this I've been around just as long, Prozak old school inc.