Wobluda Remake

[Rick]

Congrats on getting on the Map Committee JMR!

I like what you're doing with the map. The original was very plain to look at and didn't really make much sense with the current terrain, which you seem to be doing a great job fixing. Just, when making the different humps in the map, make sure you don't ruin the jumps

[BASEBALLDUDE]

It's popular to who? Newbs? How about the older community that hates it. Make it more appealing maybe they like it?

Sorry Clipz, but newbs make up most of the paintball community. Nobody has any right to treat noobs with disrespect unless they're camping. (Which unfortunately means that most newbs should be treated with disrespect.)

[Clipz]

Yes they are a majority, but the older community dictates a lot in the small community.

[LaZeRs]

Sorry Clipz, but newbs make up most of the paintball community. Nobody has any right to treat noobs with disrespect unless they're camping. (Which unfortunately means that most newbs should be treated with disrespect.)

Good point.

Nice getting on the map committee JMR!
I hope this map will be good, better than the rest [at least texture wise].

[jitspoe]

Like 90% of all pb maps.

And that's one of the reasons so many people complain about the graphics.  Even if it has the best textures in the world, it doesn't matter if the maps are bland and boxy.

[ic3y]

It's popular to who? Newbs? How about the older community that hates it. Make it more appealing maybe they like it?

I hate wobluda too, but the "newbs" like it.

And that's one of the reasons so many people complain about the graphics.  Even if it has the best textures in the world, it doesn't matter if the maps are bland and boxy.

And you cant win with just one map.
Wobluda remake? Yes, but its 2early in my opinion. There are other maps to remake.

But because JMR did it already, just release it.
And then maybe maps from < 2010.

[JMR]

Congrats on getting on the Map Committee JMR!

I like what you're doing with the map. The original was very plain to look at and didn't really make much sense with the current terrain, which you seem to be doing a great job fixing. Just, when making the different humps in the map, make sure you don't ruin the jumps

Good point.

Nice getting on the map committee JMR!

Thanks all for your kind words It's been an honor.

Anyway, Now I am going to do a bit of quoting.

Well, i think DT remade maps like pforest/sassault basically because these maps had potential, but their gameplay wasnt to the fullest. Wobluda on the other hand has great gameplay and looks fine too. IMHO, it would be better idea to remake macabre, because its gameplay isnt as good as it could be. Or if you want remake suggestion, pls twiling remake, make it happen! That map has so much potential.

Also on the point of remaking something, remaking a map should be more like "you take the way map is played and make new map based on the gameplay", what you are doing there (at least from screens so far) is just copying wobluda and slightly adjusting its terrain. Have a look at pforest for example, its gameplay is same but the map looks totally diferent, you can recognize it just thanks to the paths. While in your "remake" i dont need to even look at the whole map and clearly say its wobluda. BTW, the reason you can only adjust terrain is a prove that wobluda is fine and doesnt scream "remake me" unlike other maps.

And if you wanna argue that you are only making visual remake, then i am sorry to say that i think you are only wasting time, which you could spend on something more useful (like remaking macabre/twiling/daylight_b1). I think it wont get played much, because it will alter the gameplay too much and people will refuse to play it.

Of course it could work out, but you would have to be rly smart about it and think about many new possible jumps there and if these jumps are good idea or not. Take for example skygliding, simple think but it shifted prolandr gameplay like crazy and made tons of new jumps available, some for the better, some for the worse. So, if you still wanna go for it, be my guest but be prepared that it all might be just waste of time, becuase people wont accept it. I personally dont think its a good idea, but if you do, then good luck there!

I appreciate your long opinion, but on the topic of "what you are doing there (at least from screens so far) is just copying wobluda and slightly adjusting its terrain.". I highly disagree with, I am majorly improving the appearance of wobluda. I chose wobluda, because I get sick of it being picked in matches so much, due to it's terrible appearance (I even pick it myself, I just wished it looked better).
The reason I chose wob as my first remake is that I know the gameplay is to it's fullest there, I could get hated by the community by making a remake that is different gameplay from the original (worse). So that was the point of me remaking wobluda. I am making everything from scratch too.

I hate wobluda too, but the "newbs" like it.
And you cant win with just one map.
Wobluda remake? Yes, but its 2early in my opinion. There are other maps to remake.

But because JMR did it already, just release it.
And then maybe maps from < 2010.

Wobluda gets picked more than daylight_b1 Etc, it's one of the most popular maps out there as far as matching goes at the moment. This is the whole purpose of me choosing it, I'm not looking to get wobluda played more (it's already played to it's full extend), I am simply trying to improve the visuals as so many people play it. DT's remakes was a terrible example on my part, I think me mentioning DT caused confusion. I am simply (for wobluda) giving it a new, made from scratch "skin", that will give wobluda a new feel - without altering gameplay. This is a different type of remake, I am not remaking the layout.

Maybe this could be the first of a series? If I came up with a catchy tag, I was thinking I could do something like "pbcup_", just because it's an easy way to relate to maps of a similar detail.
A few I had at the top of my head,
"adv_wobluda" (Advanced wobluda)
"imp_wobluda" (Improved wobluda)
"jmr_wobluda" (Okay, this sounds very self-centered, but at least it's semantic, "JMR's remake of Wobluda"
"pro_wobluda" (Professional maps, remade")
then when I have picked a tag... could be
"pro_daylight" Etc

Okay, maybe these are not the best examples, but I think my remakes will 'click' with people if I did this. Also, I wouldn't then be stealing the name "_remake" after everything, I understand that many other mappers in the future may also want to remake the same maps I have remaked - maybe even with a different layout, so I think it would be best if I made a "map" tag.

[prozajik]

Wobluda doesn't look that great.  The walls are rock, but they're all flat with 90 degree angles.  The terrain is wedge shaped.  It just doesn't look natural.  The point of this type of remake is to keep the gameplay that is already proven and liked by a lot of players and enhance the visuals.  It should effectively be a drop-in replacement for the old wobluda.  This is the idea of the official maplist.  The remakes DT has done have completely changed the maps with new routes and whatnot.

Yes, true, but wobluda has decent flow and decent gameplay, unlike other maps. Dont get me wrong, i am not saying JMR should stop, because its totally wrong, no. I am just giving out my opinions so for the next time he decides to remake something so maybe he might choose his next map based on them. It would obviously make no sense to stop now.

I like what skyro said, that it wouldnt be waste of time, because JMR enjoys making maps, heh true. Lets see how this turns out, i am surprised so many people are up for it honestly.

As for the gameplay point, i totally agree with clipz, the part of map with worst gameplay is mid. The gameplay there consists more of no-brain rushing, because its hard to counter main-ice to enemies main-icehigh rushes. If you dont go Icehigh and they rush there, you are pretty much screwed, because now they control your part of a map.
On another point, rushing is basically only option there, because if you dont rush fast enough to see mid and oponents, you totally lose control of the map, because there is so many options where they could have gone, you cant basically guess it. And with that, another problem comes out, there basically 2 options to rush. 1) You go small hump - mid, 2)You go your icehigh, rushing sewers doesnt work, because its too risky, you have to guess where oponents will be and it works only once or twice, because they line it anyway after that. And basehigh is like 1 second slower comparing to jump over small-hump to mid.

EDIT:

I appreciate your long opinion, but on the topic of "what you are doing there (at least from screens so far) is just copying wobluda and slightly adjusting its terrain.". I highly disagree with, I am majorly improving the appearance of wobluda. I chose wobluda, because I get sick of it being picked in matches so much, due to it's terrible appearance (I even pick it myself, I just wished it looked better).
...

Yea uhm, that was my bad, i kinda didnt read your first post saying that you are only remaking visuals, whch then makes sense to just "copy" and do what i said there. I assumed when i read "remake" that you mean full remake like DT did (and also because you mentioned him :p).


EDIT2:

Wobluda gets picked more than daylight_b1 Etc, it's one of the most popular maps out there as far as matching goes at the moment.

Well that just proves my point, doesnt it? If wobluda is played enough why remake it and not daylight_b1 which would get it more played? In other words, if you remade daylight_b1 instead of wobluda, we would have 2 maps that get picked often . I liked how your argument could have backfired, i just had to comment on this :p. On the other hand as a (nub)mapper i understand that some maps are more appealing to remake than others, so yea i get why you choosed wobluda.

[JMR]

Yes, true, but wobluda has decent flow and decent gameplay, unlike other maps. Dont get me wrong, i am not saying JMR should stop, because its totally wrong, no. I am just giving out my opinions so for the next time he decides to remake something so maybe he might choose his next map based on them. It would obviously make no sense to stop now.

I like what skyro said, that it wouldnt be waste of time, because JMR enjoys making maps, heh true. Lets see how this turns out, i am surprised so many people are up for it honestly.

As for the gameplay point, i totally agree with clipz, the part of map with worst gameplay is mid. The gameplay there consists more of no-brain rushing, because its hard to counter main-ice to enemies main-icehigh rushes. If you dont go Icehigh and they rush there, you are pretty much screwed, because now they control your part of a map.
On another point, rushing is basically only option there, because if you dont rush fast enough to see mid and oponents, you totally lose control of the map, because there is so many options where they could have gone, you cant basically guess it. And with that, another problem comes out, there basically 2 options to rush. 1) You go small hump - mid, 2)You go your icehigh, rushing sewers doesnt work, because its too risky, you have to guess where oponents will be and it works only once or twice, because they line it anyway after that. And basehigh is like 1 second slower comparing to jump over small-hump to mid.

Well, I personally like the gameplay at mid - it's unique and very up-paced. The fact that you have to rush to mid as fast as you can always keeps us on our toes to come up with positions quickly. On wobluda, if you are on your own, it's very hard, but if you use teamwork (as you already know) it's much easier.

You may find others agree with me, or I may find that I am wrong? From my experience in the past, people seem to like the whole of wobluda's gameplay.

[JMR]

EDIT2:Well that just proves my point, doesnt it? If wobluda is played enough why remake it and not daylight_b1 which would get it more played? In other words, if you remade daylight_b1 instead of wobluda, we would have 2 maps that get picked often . I liked how your argument could have backfired, i just had to comment on this :p. On the other hand as a (nub)mapper i understand that some maps are more appealing to remake than others, so yea i get why you choosed wobluda.

That didn't backfire, it hardly was in context. Didn't you listen to me when I say the whole point of me making wobluda (which is infact on the next line... ), is because it gets picked often "This is the whole purpose of me choosing it, I'm not looking to get wobluda played more (it's already played to it's full extend), I am simply trying to improve the visuals as so many people play it."

I find it quite rude as how you say that wobluda Wobluda is actually not 'more appealing to remake than others' at all either. Highly Improving the visuals on a map where the gameplay is very much known, is pretty hard. With daylight, I'd have more freedom to do what I wanted, much more appealing. With wobluda, I have to keep the same jumps available Etc, which can be a hard task.

[prozajik]

Well, I personally like the gameplay at mid - it's unique and very up-paced. The fact that you have to rush to mid as fast as you can always keeps us on our toes to come up with positions quickly. On wobluda, if you are on your own, it's very hard, but if you use teamwork (as you already know) it's much easier.

You may find others agree with me, or I may find that I am wrong? From my experience in the past, people seem to like the whole of wobluda's gameplay.

I am not saying i dont like it, of course i play wobluda a lot, because its picked so often and i kinda like it. Ye the rushing tacts to have a vision on your oponents is pretty good. But what i rly dont like is this dumb rushin. I think you havent played against any players who do this, because most players who remain in community try to play at least tactical a little, but back in day, there were quite few players who just rushed all the time and sprayed and guess what, it worked, because wobluda's design helped this "strategy" to work.

EDIT:

That didn't backfire, it hardly was in context. Didn't you listen to me when I say the whole point of me making wobluda (which is infact on the next line... ), is because it gets picked often "This is the whole purpose of me choosing it, I'm not looking to get wobluda played more (it's already played to it's full extend), I am simply trying to improve the visuals as so many people play it."

I find it quite rude as how you say that wobluda Wobluda is actually not 'more appealing to remake than others' at all either. Highly Improving the visuals on a map where the gameplay is very much known, is pretty hard. With daylight, I'd have more freedom to do what I wanted, much more appealing. With wobluda, I have to keep the same jumps available Etc, which can be a hard task.

Well you are saying that you wanna make wobluda better looking so newbies and players in general dont get scared of by it right? And its one of the most picked maps right? Ok. Now lets have a look at daylight_b1. Is it one of the most picked maps? No. So there are basically 2 map (lets say 2 for the simplicity), one that gets played a lot, the other which not, visual wise they are both on the same level (both need improvement). So wouldnt it be better to improve the one which doesnt get played? This was my whole point of posting here btw, i guess i didnt say it right.


Well and still! You have picked wobluda over daylight_b1, despite all the reasoning you just put here. Maybe appealing wasnt used right, i should have "more appealing for YOU", because you obviously prefer to remake wobluda over daylight. So my point stands

[JMR]

I am not saying i dont like it, of course i play wobluda a lot, because its picked so often and i kinda like it. Ye the rushing tacts to have a vision on your oponents is pretty good. But what i rly dont like is this dumb rushin. I think you havent played against any players who do this, because most players who remain in community try to play at least tactical a little, but back in day, there were quite few players who just rushed all the time and sprayed and guess what, it worked, because wobluda's design helped this "strategy" to work.

Was this before the ball speed was changed? Maybe that has some reference, I have no idea, I have only been around for 1 year.
EDIT:
I could try to improve this, maybe by adding more cover on main and autococker? I will take gameplay advice, but it's hard to know what "everyone" wants. I remember reading an old thread on wobluda remakes and myers said that the gameplay is fine and useless extra paths will only ruien the gameplay. But I can make minor gameplay changes (adding cover shouldn't hinder it that much)

Also, I read on an old thread that clipz was interested in wobluda being covered in snow. I think this is a great idea as it would make the fit in a lot more!

[JMR]

I am not saying i dont like it, of course i play wobluda a lot, because its picked so often and i kinda like it. Ye the rushing tacts to have a vision on your oponents is pretty good. But what i rly dont like is this dumb rushin. I think you havent played against any players who do this, because most players who remain in community try to play at least tactical a little, but back in day, there were quite few players who just rushed all the time and sprayed and guess what, it worked, because wobluda's design helped this "strategy" to work.

EDIT:Well you are saying that you wanna make wobluda better looking so newbies and players in general dont get scared of by it right? And its one of the most picked maps right? Ok. Now lets have a look at daylight_b1. Is it one of the most picked maps? No. So there are basically 2 map (lets say 2 for the simplicity), one that gets played a lot, the other which not, visual wise they are both on the same level (both need improvement). So wouldnt it be better to improve the one which doesnt get played? This was my whole point of posting here btw, i guess i didnt say it right.


Well and still! You have picked wobluda over daylight_b1, despite all the reasoning you just put here. Maybe appealing wasnt used right, i should have "more appealing for YOU", because you obviously prefer to remake wobluda over daylight. So my point stands

My point is that, I am not looking to get daylight picked more yet... it's pointless. Instead pick a map which is VERY popular first, then once that is looking nice, then  work on other "Less important" maps.

It's like the official maplist - it wouldn't be there to make maps played more, it would be there to set the standard of the game high for popular maps - which is why I am remaking wobluda, to set the standard high for a very popular map. After wobluda, I will consider you opinion I think I could remake daylight next, but IMO wobluda is more important.

[Clipz]

Daylight would be a horrible map to choose to remake. Its a cheap rip off of pp1.

Im heading off to work now, Ill talk with you later on JMR should be home in about 5 hours.

[Mission]

Daylight would be a horrible map to choose to remake. Its a cheap rip off of pp1.

Maybe but it doesn't play like pp1 at all does it?

[JMR]

Progress with water/sewer


(The lights are temporary)

[BASEBALLDUDE]

This is gonna be epic. If the community had more people like you, we could remake so many popular maps that don't look good and paintball2 would benefit tremendously.

[MaTzeMR]

I wanna fu-ck with this water cuz its so hot.

[SaWiX]

I wanna fu-ck with this water cuz its so hot.

LMFAO

[LaZeRs]

I wanna fu-ck with this water cuz its so hot.

You're a little too ... Matze to do this.

Man, with the screenshots from your remake JMR, this map's gonna be sick.