This game is dying... What can we do to help?

[MaTzeMR]

- different language tutorial, because some of the newer players are quite young and dont understand some things they get told in the tutorial ( if nobody else would do it, i could translate it in german)

[Toxiic]

There are several issues with the games popularity, I think.

#1 - There are just so many games in general, now.  Players are spread thin.  We may actually have more players than ever, but the actual amount of time that people spend playing paintball2 is at an all time low.  I know I, personally, have a good 5-10 games I'm actively playing at any given time, which means I can only spend a little time with each.
#2 - "Oldschool"/arena type shooters just seem to struggle to keep active players in general.  I don't know why, because I find them to be the most fun.  The UT and Quake style of gameplay just doesn't seem to be popular anymore.  Rise of the Triad 2013 just came out, and they're already down to having organized deathmatch nights, just to have enough people to play.
#3 - It takes a lot of time and dedication to become good enough for Paintball2 to really be fun.  Most people aren't going to see the potential.  They'll probably hop on a speed server for a bit, run around aimlessly getting killed, then uninstall, without seeing the true potential of the game.
#4 - It seems popular games these days are less about having fun core gameplay, and more about tapping into the compulsive human psyche.  As much as I hate it, some players just won't keep playing a game without leveling and player progression.

There are a lot of things we can try, but I'm not really certain what, if anything, would make the game really popular.  These are just speculation on my part.


Things I don't think will make much of a difference:

- Revamping the website.  How many gamers really look at a game's website?  What % of players do you think visit, say, the Call of Duty website?  I haven't.

- Voice chat.  I think most players tend to not want to talk to strangers online.  If they have friends in game, they will probably use vent/teamspeak/mumble/skype/etc. with their friends.

- Purging unused accounts.  Is your ability to play with the name <insert popular character name> going to make or break it for people?  Would that name really be freed up if inactive accounts were removed, or would it just be immediately taken by somebody else?

- Standardizing server names (players are most likely just going to jump on whatever server has the most players).


Things that might help:

- "Quick match" (with bots, if no players are available).  If players can just press 1 button and get into a game with players/bots (ideally, at their skill level), they might not be turned off by passworded servers, empty servers, high ping servers, etc.

- Stats/ranking/levels - some carrots to dangle in front of players that won't stick around without them.

- Competitive mode with lobby and built in IRC.  Something more organized and connected to the community than generic pub servers, but more accessible than match server rentals.

- Improved first run/tutorial experience.

- Friends list.

its scary how you are, most of the times, post almost a second later after I post. I feel like your stalking me, as if you when I am about to post. ;P #ConspiracyTheory?

Anyways I strongly agree with most of your points, and most of them are extremely vaild, but some are not. You are right about how the oldschool games, true fps gaming, are strugling to survive. I also agree about the how players not sticking long enough so they can exprience this games greate potiental. However, I don't agree with how you mentioned about COD and website. COD became extremely famous on consoles then they did on PC, and naturely people on PC started to play COD on PC because of the influence made by the gaming consoles. Also, COD had done a lot of advertisement, far beyond what dpb2 community can do, and since COD never really needed a website, only for forums so players can give feedback and etc., they really did not need to make it look new gen, but recently they had to make the website more effiencent and better, because of COD elite. As for games that started and are exlusive for PC(which are the biggest games in the world), they are extremely depended on there website. Anyways, digital paintball 2, dp is dependent on this website, because of the updates; if this website was looking more new gen, new players would appreicate this game more. (Presentation=representation)

[not_payl_obviously]

"Oldschool"/arena type shooters just seem to struggle to keep active players in general. [...] It takes a lot of time and dedication to become good enough for Paintball2 to really be fun.  Most people aren't going to see the potential.

There are people that will still play it, and I believe we should focus on them, not complaining about "games like this are dying". And this isn't actually to jitspoe, but to most people crying about "not enough players".

There are a lot of things we can try, but I'm not really certain what, if anything, would make the game really popular.  These are just speculation on my part.

I believe we don't aim to make it really popular, but certainly we don't want to unique game to disappear and people want more players (I believe still we are doing kinda good right now).

- Revamping the website.  How many gamers really look at a game's website?  What % of players do you think visit, say, the Call of Duty website?  I haven't.

If you would put a some video on front page, it would be a great way to promote this game, not only to viewers of this page, but probably some other services will use this video to introduce to this game. Still it would be mostly task to others, only including video player for you, so why don't you ask people to do it?
This would also help to show how this game looks from good players POV, that game is highly aimed at skill etc., and certainly it's better way than writing nice text.

- Voice chat.  I think most players tend to not want to talk to strangers online.  If they have friends in game, they will probably use vent/teamspeak/mumble/skype/etc. with their friends.
- Purging unused accounts.  Is your ability to play with the name <insert popular character name> going to make or break it for people?  Would that name really be freed up if inactive accounts were removed, or would it just be immediately taken by somebody else?
- Standardizing server names (players are most likely just going to jump on whatever server has the most players).

True.

- "Quick match" (with bots, if no players are available).  If players can just press 1 button and get into a game with players/bots (ideally, at their skill level), they might not be turned off by passworded servers, empty servers, high ping servers, etc.

I'm not sure about this, I think that finding server with players shouldn't be hard, especially with better serverbrowser.

- Stats/ranking/levels - some carrots to dangle in front of players that won't stick around without them.

I don't really super like it, but possibly good step forward would be option in menu to show stats from already made commands.

- Competitive mode with lobby and built in IRC.  Something more organized and connected to the community than generic pub servers, but more accessible than match server rentals.

This wouldn't help game grow IMO (matching is very small percentage), but possibly it could entertain older players.

- Improved first run/tutorial experience.

Yes. This is needed, especially after you added tutorial that is not finished.

- Friends list.

Maybe it would be okay to include it into better serverbrowser? I have something like this in my serverbrowser (it saves player name and looks for it to display). This is easy yet effective way to do it.

[jitspoe]

However, I don't agree with how you mentioned about COD and website. COD became extremely famous on consoles then they did on PC, and naturely people on PC started to play COD on PC because of the influence made by the gaming consoles. Also, COD had done a lot of advertisement, far beyond what dpb2 community can do, and since COD never really needed a website, only for forums so players can give feedback and etc., they really did not need to make it look new gen, but recently they had to make the website more effiencent and better, because of COD elite. As for games that started and are exlusive for PC(which are the biggest games in the world), they are extremely depended on there website. Anyways, digital paintball 2, dp is dependent on this website, because of the updates; if this website was looking more new gen, new players would appreicate this game more. (Presentation=representation)

I think you may have your history a little mixed up:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Call_of_Duty_media - COD started out as a PC title (Exclusive for some time).

You make a valid point about Elite, though, and a lot of games (Battlefield 3 & 4, QuakeLive, etc.) force you to go through their website.  I'm not sure that really benefits the community, though.

In any case, I was just throwing out an example.  I don't think most players regularly visit a game's website unless they're required to.


Payl: I'm just pointing out the potential that, even if this game was "perfect", with next-gen graphics, no bugs, great tutorial, all (good) feature requests implemented, etc., it may still be difficult to make it popular simply because of the style of the gameplay.

A video could certainly help.  I think Shk was trying to gather a bunch of demos for a community video.

I know how you feel about using the server browser over quick match, but after using that feature a lot in Tribes Ascend, I kinda like it.  You just start the game, click on "CTF" or whatever other game mode you want to play, and you're on a server playing it.

The competitive mode is actually more for newer players than older ones.  Older players can already organize matches and pickup games through IRC and the forums.  This is for people who play pubs for a bit, think it's just a simple instagib game, and that they're better than everybody... then they can try playing an organized game and see how challenging it actually is, and hopefully give them something to strive for.

As for the tutorial map, seeking feedback here: http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=24135.msg241432#msg241432

[LaZeRs]

I know how you feel about using the server browser over quick match, but after using that feature a lot in Tribes Ascend, I kinda like it.  You just start the game, click on "CTF" or whatever other game mode you want to play, and you're on a server playing it.

I like that idea, but what if a person runs a multi-gamemoded server?

[BASEBALLDUDE]

Human nature!!! Come on Jits you know you gotta implement some unlockables, experience ranking, achievements, etc. because unfortunately those are the kinds of things that make people want to play rather than just for the fun of it. I'm probably gonna post some kind of rant that will go into more detail in the off topic section.

EDIT: Also Jitspoe should get more people on this site to help him out because right now there are a lot of things he needs to do, so other people could help lighten the load by doing some of the less technical stuff like designing an official new menu.

[LaZeRs]

I'll be glad to help you with the site.
I probably won't code, I'll just give ideas and tell you where to put all the stuff.

[Rick]

- Revamping the website.  How many gamers really look at a game's website?  What % of players do you think visit, say, the Call of Duty website?  I haven't.

The difference is that you don't need to visit COD's website to create a player account, though.

[MosEz]

Jitspoe slept away the change to advertise the game.

[not_payl_obviously]

Payl: I'm just pointing out the potential that, even if this game was "perfect", with next-gen graphics, no bugs, great tutorial, all (good) feature requests implemented, etc., it may still be difficult to make it popular simply because of the style of the gameplay.

Yeah, it's true.

I know how you feel about using the server browser over quick match, but after using that feature a lot in Tribes Ascend, I kinda like it.  You just start the game, click on "CTF" or whatever other game mode you want to play, and you're on a server playing it.

I played Tribes Ascend before, but I hated how it was P2W. I'm still not sure if such feature would be really useful, I believe I would use serverbrowser still just to see if good people are on that server, if there is good map on PGP-only, if there is good map on pub or jump, and so on. I like using my serverbrowser a lot...

The competitive mode is actually more for newer players than older ones.  Older players can already organize matches and pickup games through IRC and the forums.  This is for people who play pubs for a bit, think it's just a simple instagib game, and that they're better than everybody... then they can try playing an organized game and see how challenging it actually is, and hopefully give them something to strive for.

Well, they believe they are better than everybody and if by accident they run into someone who can actually play they ragequit after they get owned... I'm not sure if matches will help this.
What I would like to see are open matches, so you get informed when people want to play some fun match with other good players (informed also when your game is not running, so you can always get into it). This could work but I have no idea how to make it exactly as it creates problems with it.

I like that idea, but what if a person runs a multi-gamemoded server?

It's actually quite easy to detect what type of server is:
-If it has password it's Match server.
-If it has map starting with "jump/" it's Jump server.
-If respawn time is less than 15, it's Speed server.
-If hostname constains "PGP" it's PGP server.
-Otherwise it's Pub server.
It should be able to detect most things, only problem is detecting PGP-only server (make servers list their "expert" settings?).

[rockitude]

It's actually quite easy to detect what type of server is:
-If it has password it's Match server.
-If it has map starting with "jump/" it's Jump server.
-If respawn time is less than 15, it's Speed server.
-If hostname constains "PGP" it's PGP server.
-Otherwise it's Pub server.
It should be able to detect most things, only problem is detecting PGP-only server (make servers list their "expert" settings?).

Code: [Select]

public String getType() {
if(getInfo("needpass").equals("1")) {
return "Match";
}
if(getInfo("mapname").contains("jump/")) {
return "Jump";
}
if(getInfo("hostname").toLowerCase().contains("soccer") || getInfo("mapname").contains("soccer")) {
return "Soccer";
}
if(getInfo("hostname").toLowerCase().contains("pgp") || getInfo("mapname").contains("pgp/")) {
return "PGP";
}
if(getInfo("hostname").toLowerCase().contains("siege")) {
return "Siege";
}
if(getInfo("hostname").toLowerCase().contains("deathmatch") || getInfo("hostname").contains("DM")) {
return "Deathmatch";
}
if(Integer.parseInt(getInfo("elim")) < 15) {
return "Speed";
}
return "Public";
}
My browser is using this method and it works fine at the moment. But of course people could fake the type and it's hard to get DM, TDM and KOT. jitspoe should add the gamemode info to the UDP answer.

[not_payl_obviously]

Mine method isn't that nice:

Code: [Select]

bol:=FindLocalVar('needpass')='0';
s:=upcase(servlist[id].hostname);
        if bol and (copy(servlist[id].map,1,5)='jump/') then servlist[id].serv_type:=4{jump} else
          if bol and (Pos('SPEED',s)<>0) then servlist[id].serv_type:=1{speed} else
          if bol and (Pos('PGP',s)<>0) then servlist[id].serv_type:=3{pgp} else
          if bol then servlist[id].serv_type:=2{match} else
          if (not bol) then servlist[id].serv_type:=5{pub} else
          servlist[id].serv_type:=0{unknown};


My browser is using this method and it works fine at the moment. But of course people could fake the type and it's hard to get DM, TDM and KOT. jitspoe should add the gamemode info to the UDP answer.

And expert cvar also so we know if it's PGP-only.

[jitspoe]

What I would like to see are open matches, so you get informed when people want to play some fun match with other good players (informed also when your game is not running, so you can always get into it). This could work but I have no idea how to make it exactly as it creates problems with it.

I'm picturing something similar to CS:GO.  The multiplayer would have 2 sections in it: "casual" and "competitive".  If you click on casual, you get standard pub servers.  If you click competitive, you get put into a lobby and wait for X other players to join.  (Perhaps we could have competitive 2v2 through 5v5).  While you're waiting in the lobby, it would connect you to an IRC channel, so you can chat with other people, inside or outside of the game.  This is how you could be informed of a match outside of the game.

[Smacker]

#1 -   We may actually have more players than ever, but the actual amount of time that people spend playing paintball2 is at an all time low.

what does this mean?

[Toxiic]

what does this mean?

what's jitspoe is saying is that we have a lot of people downloading this game, but they are not sticking around long enough.

Example: 100 new accounts in one day, but out of that 100 new players only 2 decide to play the next day or week.

[T3RR0R15T]

We have 100.000 players, but each one plays only 5 minutes / month.

[Aveiro]

If there were some normal servers, people would maybe play more. People arent intrested in 247italy, pgptrain only or 247village. Just make 1 real public server with cool maplist instead of tons unplayable servers with bad maps.

[MrPeach]

I don't agree. Many people (mostly newbs) enjoy playing in such servers so you can't deny that they are interested in playing there.

[Aveiro]

Yep but for old players, its hard to play for fun nowadays. I dont like owning newbies on Speed/Italy. I would rather play on some Public server with other cool guys in this game. But there arent any servers like this. Only Crack PGPonly is playable, and rotation on this server is same for like 1/2year so it became rly boring.

[BASEBALLDUDE]

But they get bored on the 24/7 servers. My brother was obsessed with Italy for about a month and then he got bored of it and started playing more mobile apps on iPad that have a lot of unlockables and rankings and stuff like that.