Special op: Back in buisness

[MyeRs]

Baseballdude: The feedback likely would come from more experienced people to via play testing. It's the only way to get "real" feedback. And 2 of the top teams provides the best feedback, especially since they're used matching vs eachother.

Aveiro: JMR's visuals have improved, and overall mapping have improved - but for a "series" of tournaments to be played on Spec maps, it'll need to come near DT level mapping. In this community, I would say Rick and Cusoman are the ONLY ones who can come near to his visuals. Sure, Clipz can help him with some gameplay, same as any other player who's played this game competitively - but he isn't a good technical mapper. The map needs to flow, something that Rick/Cusoman have been able to do. Sadly, Rick doesn't have that big of a 'mapping' name cause he hasn't released much. But I feel like Rick is equally as good as Cusoman, and both are the 2nd best mappers to play this game. So I would certainly suggest Rick having a big impact on these maps. It'd help JMR improve his mapping at the same time by mapping with a better mapper.

Proza: PP3_b1/2 were good, whatever the versions on most servers suck. Too many catwalks. Too easy to cap. Jumps too easy.

[LaZeRs]

I think overhang is JMR's best map, and so far his only chance to come close to DT level mapping, unless he makes another map with as great of gameplay and visuals as overhang.
By the way, I wish you would finish overhang!

[BASEBALLDUDE]

Overhang is really good except for obstacles blocking your jumps. But otherwise, it's got the potential to be a top map.

Sorry JMR, we digressed a little. As far as the mapping part of this operation goes, I think JMR is worthy to make some of these maps. Cuso and Rick could also participate, and I could help out with general gameplay and aesthetics but not so much with the technical details.

[MyeRs]

@JMR: The above 2 posts are my reasoning for getting experienced players to help with this. Not going to write in detail as I think it's self explanatory. People who have been around for years matching competitively know what kind of maps work and which don't. Those who have been around mapping, know more about quality/BSP things. Take experienced opinions if you want best results.

[BASEBALLDUDE]

MyeRs, nobody's been experienced forever. This seems like a good way to get old players playing again AND to give new players a competitive opportunity to gain experience.

[blaa]

I'd say to proceed as you started, JMR. No hassle. "Special maplist" is a hassle.

[JMR]

spcup_kingdom, coming soon
spcup = special cup

[BASEBALLDUDE]

Looks nice from the screenshots!

[MyeRs]

I wouldn't recommend posting them all in here as it'll get pretty cluttered - but from the first screenshot (may be different in game) - it looks like there's too big of a slant on the ground near the right ramp. I feel like if you accidentally hit the side you could bounce the wrong way. It looks better than other stuff you've made thusfar.

[Mission]

People pass on many new maps before they are played to their full potential. I can give anyone a demo on me on overhang vs inte to see how that map can flow in the right hands, 21-8 vs a team much better than me but just because they don't know how to play it to its full potential. My point is every spcup map needs to be play tested alot more than usual to get a true feel for it.

[MyeRs]

People pass on many new maps before they are played to their full potential. I can give anyone a demo on me on overhang vs inte to see how that map can flow in the right hands, 21-8 vs a team much better than me but just because they don't know how to play it to its full potential. My point is every spcup map needs to be play tested alot more than usual to get a true feel for it.

Winning by knowing a map another team doesn't know isn't the map being good - it's the other team not playing it. Also, we (myself, shk, chalk, and some random) beat you guys 4on4 on overhang. It did not play well at all. None of us found it an interesting match. It was a predictable linefest mid, and since we didn't know the map we went the same path every round - and were able to win + cap on you guys. It just didn't play well. You're not experienced in matching. A bunch of maps enter the match scene, very few get picked up. It's hard to get real flow. JMR has improved drastically at technical mapping - the one comment we all thought about his most recent map was that it LOOKED good - but he still needs help getting to the level of flow and gameplay of better/currently used maps.

A problem with JMR's mapping in my eyes = 1) He tries too hard to make it detailed when sometimes simplicity works (example is wobluda, the most simple map) -- Then again, his detail does make his mapping look visually better. 2) He's inexperienced competitively (therefore, he doesn't have the skill that someone that DT did when he made maps or the experience, this is the same problem cusoman had). So, for this reason they (him, Cusomann, some other mappers) will never be able to make the difficult jumps that DT made in his maps. I know for Cusoman - if he could make the jumps on his map, then they were never hard as he wasn't a good jumper. I haven't seen JMR jump - so I can't commennt in regards to him on that, but it appears like he's becoming very similar to Cusoman in mapping. He has a bit of a way to go, but he's following that path.

[BASEBALLDUDE]

Are you planning to make spcup_wobluda?

[JMR]

Are you planning to make spcup_wobluda?

Maybe, but I would do a complete remake, new layout with wobluda ideas incorporated.

[LaZeRs]

**edited because this wasn't needed to be looked at anymore and was already answered**

[MyeRs]

@Gingerboy and lazers: please stop giving suggestions if you want this idea to work out.

[LaZeRs]

I read this thread over again, and there were parts saying only things you could do.
All we could do was join a team and just start from there. But can't we do anything to help you, JMR?

I'd be willing to help, but it doesn't seem like you want us to do as much work in this as you!

[jitspoe]

Pester me to make news posts for upcoming tournaments.  I'd like to more officially support some of these community driven tournaments and events.

Also, I mentioned this before, but I'm not a fan of the prefixes.  If people run 10 different tournament series, are we going to have 10 different sets of map prefexes (pbcup_, spcup_, ??cup_, ...)?  If an existing map is good enough to use in the tournaments, will it have to be remade or renamed to conform to the naming standard?  What about the official map list?  If maps are good enough to be officially part of the game, I don't really want a hodgepodge mix of naming conventions.  Plus it's just more to type when executing map-related console commands.

[LaZeRs]

Pester me to make news posts for upcoming tournaments.  I'd like to more officially support some of these community driven tournaments and events.

Speaking of tournaments, why don't you make a tournaments child board in the Clans, Matches, and Tournaments Section?
It would be a much more organized way to organize your tournaments, and you can make multiple posts (about details, times, servers, brackets, etc.) that don't spam the whole board, and so they don't overlap other people's posts about other things.

[JMR]

Pester me to make news posts for upcoming tournaments.  I'd like to more officially support some of these community driven tournaments and events.

Also, I mentioned this before, but I'm not a fan of the prefixes.  If people run 10 different tournament series, are we going to have 10 different sets of map prefexes (pbcup_, spcup_, ??cup_, ...)?  If an existing map is good enough to use in the tournaments, will it have to be remade or renamed to conform to the naming standard?  What about the official map list?  If maps are good enough to be officially part of the game, I don't really want a hodgepodge mix of naming conventions.  Plus it's just more to type when executing map-related console commands.

Great jitspoe!
However, I highly disagree with your opinion on name prefixes. Think of it as like a 'brand' of map. If I want to see a list of pbcup maps, they are all there in one place on the map admin panel. It groups a selection of maps together

If the official maplist were to come out, then I suppose changes could be made, to for example spcup_kingdom, to kingdom, but remakes wouldn't really work out, if pbcup_pforest had to be changed to pforest, for the official maplist, then it would have to overwrite the origional.

For the tournaments, spcup_ defines the official maplist for this.

spcup_ is a mix of full out remakes and brand new maps built to be fairly realistic, highly detailed and most importantly, competitive gameplay.

Btw LaZeRs, I don't think a remake of daylight is a good idea.


Jitspoe, an idea I had was, if there's a livestream or something going on, for say a tournament. Could there be a special area on the main page, advertising it?

I was talking to a group of random gamers yesterday on teamspeak3. They seemed pretty interested in joining paintball2. So I gave them a link to the livestream of the tournament and told them it had true esports potential , I think it would do the game good.

[LaZeRs]

Make a remake of daylight too. (spcup_daylight )

Right. My bad.

I read this thread over again, and there were parts saying only things you could do.
All we could do was join a team and just start from there. But can't we do anything to help you, JMR?

I'd be willing to help, but it doesn't seem like you want us to do as much work in this as you!

...But you still haven't answered this question.