Special op: Back in buisness

[JMR]

Right. My bad.
...But you still haven't answered this question.

You help by participating in events and practicing.

[LaZeRs]

Alright. I'd be willing to help you with anything you need that's non-map or non-IRC related.

[BASEBALLDUDE]

Who else besides JMR will be designing maps?

[LaZeRs]

He seems to want to do everything technical (map design, tournament organizing, etc.), and just let us participate in events and practicing. Not much for us to do here, but okay then.

[Mission]

What happened to this?

[BASEBALLDUDE]

What happened to this?

We gotta wait for JMR to finish his maps.

JMR, why don't you let other people participate in map-making for this operation? Cuso and Rick both have the talent to create good tourney maps. And by the way, on which map are you currently working?

[Clipz]

We gotta wait for JMR to finish his maps.

JMR, why don't you let other people participate in map-making for this operation? Cuso and Rick both have the talent to create good tourney maps.

When is the last time Rick actually "Finished" a map? He can do it but just never finishes. Cuso probably doesn't map enough anymore. He could do it to. I have 0 motivation to ever map again. Everyone else cant map at a high level. No reason to have other waste time making more maps that wont get played...

[Rick]

When is the last time Rick actually "Finished" a map? He can do it but just never finishes. Cuso probably doesn't map enough anymore. He could do it to. I have 0 motivation to ever map again. Everyone else cant map at a high level. No reason to have other waste time making more maps that wont get played...

That's very true, I'm kind of a perfectionist. It's mostly because I don't want to release a map that is just another random, blocky, misaligned, piece of crap that most maps on the pub scene are right now.

That being said, I don't actually agree with you about there being no other good mappers.

JMR - Although he has trouble with gameplay, he is very eager to learn. He takes in all feedback, good or bad, and is usually willing to reconstruct his whole map if someone says it's bad.
Ace - Definitely not a very technical mapper (going from what I have seen), but has a very good eye for what looks good.
BASEBALLDUDE - Even though he is a bit arrogant and I haven't really liked any of his maps yet, he has learnt a lot of techniques and has been very eager to try new things (like making his own textures).
The sPec squad (I count Matze here) - Omni/Stomper/Mission/etc.. are a great bunch of kids, who are learning together how to map. I love it. They have each released a few maps, and have been willing to take in feedback.
sbi - Has potential to map some good match maps if he sticks with mapping and learns a bit more.
obigl - Great gameplay mapper. He seems to be always floating around.
proza - Released a pretty good map.
Viciouz - He's always around. Great technical mapper.
open_war - Seems very eager to learn, very unique mapper.

(Probably missed a bunch, sorry Euro's)

They aren't perfect mappers, I don't think anyone but Cusoman is/were even close to being a perfect mapper. They just need to keep trying and we need to be willing to give proper feedback, without flaming/abusing them.

[Ace]

No reason to have other waste time making more maps that wont get played...

This is the biggest issue. All the new maps rarely get played. Partially because people don't know them, and partially because people don't want to learn them.

Second biggest is the learning curve in BSP. It's massive.

[Mission]

Okay, so me and JMR were discussing the spcup league. He is thinking of having one in the summer and one of the aims was to get new maps played. This is what the spcup maps are being made for. The idea at the moment is that the maplist for the league would be mostly spcup maps/ new maps but there would be some classic map choices- about 80%-20% split. We don't want to force these new maps otherwise no one would play the league, but if you don't learn the new maps inside out- then you will be at a disadvantage. Things you guys should do:
-come up with map ideas, it is going to be hard to be original with just one person deciding what theme a map is. Some of you should make a bsp file and then send it to jmr to see what you two could do
-learn the new maps. There will be a league with them in.
-take the new maps on the chin- fresh new stuff to play, at a better quality than most new maps so don't be too hasty in complaining because you don't like change.
JMR wants to make this the best league yet- I won't say too much because he might want to explain it at a date closer to the league, but livestreaming the matches and creating a great system for the league is just the start, the bare minimum.

[Rick]

This is the biggest issue. All the new maps rarely get played. Partially because people don't know them, and partially because people don't want to learn them.

I'd also add that the more experienced mappers don't seem to want to help the newer mappers. They say the map is excrement and to start over, but rarely seem to tell them how to do it properly or even how to fix the problem. They also seem to mock some of the new mappers and even harass them inside and outside of the game.

[BASEBALLDUDE]

I'd also add that the more experienced mappers don't seem to want to help the newer mappers. They say the map is excrement and to start over, but rarely seem to tell them how to do it properly or even how to fix the problem. They also seem to mock some of the new mappers and even harass them inside and outside of the game.

MyeRs is not an "experienced mapper."

[JMR]

Next spcup map progress:

[Ace]

I'd also add that the more experienced mappers don't seem to want to help the newer mappers. They say the map is excrement and to start over, but rarely seem to tell them how to do it properly or even how to fix the problem. They also seem to mock some of the new mappers and even harass them inside and outside of the game.

One of the best things to come out of the contest was more feedback than any map by a "non-mapper" has gotten in a very long time.

Invite clans back to the game and invite newbs to the match scene, tell them about the league.

It would be encouraging to some of the newer people if they didn't get matched against some the best people in the first round. Go ahead and play them later, but why not let people play someone close to their skill level in early rounds. In the old q2 jump tournaments there was two tiers, which played separate until later on, where a larger chunk was taken from T1, and a smaller portion from T2. This let some of the people that weren't as good at least have a chance at playing for more than 10 minutes. And in the end, the results are usually the same, but with more play time for everyone involved, which is never a bad thing.

[MyeRs]

MyeRs is not an "experienced mapper."

Grow up and stop trying to start an argument when you PM me crying sincerely asking me to leave you be like a little 12 year old insecure girl. He never mentioned myself in there, yet I am a better mapper than you, and I know 100x more than you. Shut the intercourse up and move along kid.

ON TOPIC:

If your league works out, it's adds competitiveness to the game. Which this game is lacking. Although that doesn't attract new players, it brings back a few players who left due to lack of competitiveness. So the league being ready attracts a few players back.

Attracting new players is just hard, it doesn't seem like any current-"ok"-players care to get good. So there's not much point in helping them get better if they don't care. Why waste the time? It's hard to find people who want to get better. It seems like every generation of people care less and less about getting better and being good, and play more for playing with friends. Which is completely fine, but it's hard to run leagues/tournaments or maintain competitiveness when the majority rather just play for fun with friends. I'm willing to help people improve if it means there will be another few teams to match, but it's impossible to find people. I can hardly find english-speaking people.

To the current spcup map: Looks like your mapping style is similar to Robinhoods from the screenshots. At least, that's who it reminded me of while looking at it. The way the base is formatted at the moment (purely from screenshots and may be completely wrong) - looks similar to Greenhill (but larger). Make sure the right side of base isn't the only easy path to grab, otherwise sitting on flag is too easy to camp. 1 Flag maps are great, but maps like PP1 are the best concepts for 1 flag, even Airtime in a sense, cause you can set up flags in 3v1 situations. But it all comes down to how it flows overall, right now it certainly looks nice and less crazy terrain is nice as well.

[SaWiX]

Grow up and stop trying to start an argument when you PM me crying sincerely asking me to leave you be like a little 12 year old insecure girl. He never mentioned myself in there, yet I am a better mapper than you, and I know 100x more than you. Shut the intercourse up and move along kid.

ON TOPIC:

If your league works out, it's adds competitiveness to the game. Which this game is lacking. Although that doesn't attract new players, it brings back a few players who left due to lack of competitiveness. So the league being ready attracts a few players back.

Attracting new players is just hard, it doesn't seem like any current-"ok"-players care to get good. So there's not much point in helping them get better if they don't care. Why waste the time? It's hard to find people who want to get better. It seems like every generation of people care less and less about getting better and being good, and play more for playing with friends. Which is completely fine, but it's hard to run leagues/tournaments or maintain competitiveness when the majority rather just play for fun with friends. I'm willing to help people improve if it means there will be another few teams to match, but it's impossible to find people. I can hardly find english-speaking people.

To the current spcup map: Looks like your mapping style is similar to Robinhoods from the screenshots. At least, that's who it reminded me of while looking at it. The way the base is formatted at the moment (purely from screenshots and may be completely wrong) - looks similar to Greenhill (but larger). Make sure the right side of base isn't the only easy path to grab, otherwise sitting on flag is too easy to camp. 1 Flag maps are great, but maps like PP1 are the best concepts for 1 flag, even Airtime in a sense, cause you can set up flags in 3v1 situations. But it all comes down to how it flows overall, right now it certainly looks nice and less crazy terrain is nice as well.

yes

[Mission]

It would be encouraging to some of the newer people if they didn't get matched against some the best people in the first round. Go ahead and play them later, but why not let people play someone close to their skill level in early rounds. In the old q2 jump tournaments there was two tiers, which played separate until later on, where a larger chunk was taken from T1, and a smaller portion from T2. This let some of the people that weren't as good at least have a chance at playing for more than 10 minutes. And in the end, the results are usually the same, but with more play time for everyone involved, which is never a bad thing.

The league would be a double round robin with points not rounds. Everyone would get 14 matches if there were 8 teams, then the 3 teams with the most points after the double round robin go to a final.

[Ace]

Next spcup map progress:

Nothing against the grass/rock/wood platform maps, but there a LOT of them. Might want to vary up some of the future sp maps.

The league would be a double round robin with points not rounds. Everyone would get 14 matches if there were 8 teams, then the 3 teams with the most points after the double round robin go to a final.

Alright, didn't read his post all the way, assumed it was the same as before. This makes a lot more sense. I still think the issue is going to be finding 'new' teams that will actually play their matches.

[Clipz]

The league should be like the old PB Cups. Not these one day tourneys. Too bad the old league formats wouldn't work today like they once did.

Not to sure about the rest of you but I get quite bored of dp after one or two matches.

[Mission]

Nothing against the grass/rock/wood platform maps, but there a LOT of them. Might want to vary up some of the future sp maps.

An industrial map is next

The league should be like the old PB Cups. Not these one day tourneys. Too bad the old league formats wouldn't work today like they once did.

JMR wants the league to be bigger and better than pbcup and he has tryed contacting the guy who ran pbcup for advice but he apparently ignored him. It all comes down to how many teams actually participate- as many as possible.

Not to sure about the rest of you but I get quite bored of dp after one or two matches.

Maybe learning the 5 new maps will add a freshness to the game