Author Topic: [BUG?] Walking diagonally = running  (Read 4704 times)

prozajik

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[BUG?] Walking diagonally = running
« on: December 29, 2013, 07:15:36 PM »
So i recently started using 'walk' and i found out a little problem, probably bug.
When you use walk and go straight or to the side, you will still move at the same slow speed, but if you go in both directions at once (diagonally) you start running. I guess its because walk isnt treated the same way crouch is, because crouching and moving diagonally doesnt affect speed at all.
I wonder if there is any workaround maybe through some console settings which affect movement speed?
No idea if it actually works in live servers tho, i was just bored once and went through all the commands in console to see what they do and found out there are quite some for movement or even "bouncing" while moving.

promarijan

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Re: [BUG?] Walking diagonally = running
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2013, 02:44:15 AM »
Thats not a bug!

Thats one of the basics of the quake 2 engine!

If this isnt existing... You wouldnt be able to strafejump, to make icejumps and other really needed jumps!

This is how quake works and it was earlier expected as a bug in quake 1 or so but now this is a main part of the game!

And im sure that this wont be fixed at all!
I dont want to know what will happen to the jumping if this will be changed... (I dont like to say that this will fix something because it would destroy more than repair...)

prozajik

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Re: [BUG?] Walking diagonally = running
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2013, 04:31:08 AM »
Wait what, how is this basic of quake engine if everybody uses [X] Always run? Well at least i think so, why would you even wanted to use walk for jumping in the first place. And how would this affect jumping when nobody uses walk for jumping anyway? o.O
I use walk only for accurate aiming, and this kinda ruins it, because you start moving so freaking fast suddenly.

Rick

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Re: [BUG?] Walking diagonally = running
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2013, 04:49:57 AM »
Thats not a bug!

Thats one of the basics of the quake 2 engine!

If this isnt existing... You wouldnt be able to strafejump, to make icejumps and other really needed jumps!

This is how quake works and it was earlier expected as a bug in quake 1 or so but now this is a main part of the game!

And im sure that this wont be fixed at all!
I dont want to know what will happen to the jumping if this will be changed... (I dont like to say that this will fix something because it would destroy more than repair...)
Proza is talking about when you hold the shift key or whatever "walk" is bound to. He isn't talking about the generic running that only requires you to press wasd or the arrow keys. :) Hope this helped.

promarijan

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Re: [BUG?] Walking diagonally = running
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2013, 04:53:43 AM »
@Rick
I know what you mean!
But everything works hand in hand...
If you would change the one thing it would affect the other one too... Thats why i talked about destroying the jumpingmovements! Its just kind of addition from the two directions...
I like it because imagine your in a flat room where you cant jump but you still want to walk faster... Do it by strafing!
Why do you see this as a bug and maybe as a feature?!

Rick

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Re: [BUG?] Walking diagonally = running
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2013, 05:06:40 AM »
@Rick
I know what you mean!
But everything works hand in hand...
If you would change the one thing it would affect the other one too... Thats why i talked about destroying the jumpingmovements! Its just kind of addition from the two directions...
I like it because imagine your in a flat room where you cant jump but you still want to walk faster... Do it by strafing!
Why do you see this as a bug and maybe as a feature?!
My bad! :)
Would it effect normal movement though? As you would need to be pressing a certain key for it to activate anyway(So leaving the movement normal until the key is pressed)? I do get what you mean though, I guess Jitspoe will be the only one to actually know how much impact it would make and if it were worth fixing. :)

prozajik

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Re: [BUG?] Walking diagonally = running
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2013, 06:47:27 AM »
Why do you see this as a bug and maybe as a feature?!
Well, if i want to walk then i want to be walking all the time and not having to be careful about accidentally pressing W+A and start running.

not_payl_obviously

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Re: [BUG?] Walking diagonally = running
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2013, 09:45:15 AM »
It probably is a bug, not sure if paintball2 specific, someone would have to check Q2. However, I don't think it's worth fixing. Those options are just leftovers that are deprecated and not used anymore. Probably it would be better off just removing them instead of allowing usage (it mostly results in intercoursed up configs that players complain about for lag and/or various reasons).

promarijan

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Re: [BUG?] Walking diagonally = running
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2013, 10:56:54 AM »
I can tell you that this is still in every quake game!
quake3, jake(quake1,2) and the newest one quake live!

Its wanted and not a bug at all!

I promise you, if you take it out, it may cause heavy bugs in the engine! I wouldnt touch the movement at all! Because doublejumps and strafejumping is a very sensitive behavior that would be just gone if you touch it!

Everything of those things are main part of the engine and shouldnt be changed at all!

If just this little thing would be changed it could be possible that it ruins everything!


Aaand on the other side... Who cares if you walk 5 mph faster while strafing forward or not?!?
Really does it affect your skill?

And just have in mind... Does Jitspoe have access to the main physics of the quake2 engine? Or complete knowledge? I just mean, would it be possible without rewriting tons of code?



If i was you guys... I would ignore it and just play and have fun with such a nice engine!
You just cant believe what a nice movement we are allowed to use!

not_payl_obviously

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Re: [BUG?] Walking diagonally = running
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2013, 11:52:42 AM »
I can tell you that this is still in every quake game!
quake3, jake(quake1,2) and the newest one quake live!
Its wanted and not a bug at all!
I promise you, if you take it out, it may cause heavy bugs in the engine! I wouldnt touch the movement at all! Because doublejumps and strafejumping is a very sensitive behavior that would be just gone if you touch it!
Everything of those things are main part of the engine and shouldnt be changed at all!
If just this little thing would be changed it could be possible that it ruins everything!
Aaand on the other side... Who cares if you walk 5 mph faster while strafing forward or not?!?
Really does it affect your skill?
And just have in mind... Does Jitspoe have access to the main physics of the quake2 engine? Or complete knowledge? I just mean, would it be possible without rewriting tons of code?
If i was you guys... I would ignore it and just play and have fun with such a nice engine!
You just cant believe what a nice movement we are allowed to use!
Are you John Carmack? If not then please back up your information with something. Most of your post is just bunch of nonsense.

promarijan

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Re: [BUG?] Walking diagonally = running
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2013, 12:06:46 PM »
I am Open_War...

And yes sometimes i write what comes into my mind^^
But thats just what i think...

not_payl_obviously

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Re: [BUG?] Walking diagonally = running
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2013, 12:12:01 PM »
And yes sometimes i write what comes into my mind^^
But thats just what i think...
We are not looking on predictions, we are looking for valid information. And honestly you don't know anything about Q2 engine. This resembles me talking with community about PAC, when many players that didn't know anything commented a lot of nonsense which thwarted any conversation between people that knew something. Don't repeat their mistakes and don't post unless you can contribute something that is backed up.

EDIT: Fixed stupid grammar error I found.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 03:15:44 PM by not_payl_obviously »

ViciouZ

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Re: [BUG?] Walking diagonally = running
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2013, 04:45:13 PM »
There are two different, but related issues being discussed here:

  • Moving diagonally adds forward+side speed resulting in 1.44x faster movement (but is capped just above normal run speed)

This is a Q2 issue and the origin of strafe jumping. It's also present in some older games.


  • When using the walk speed modifier, the above feature causes your speed to count as running (thus making footstep noises)

I think this is what proza is referring to as a bug. The speed increase from diagonal movement pushes the walk speed above the threshold at which the player emits footstep noises.

I guess this request is to fix the second while leaving the first untouched.

Payl, hush.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 05:25:29 PM by ViciouZ »

not_payl_obviously

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Re: [BUG?] Walking diagonally = running
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2013, 05:18:32 PM »
  • When using the walk speed modifier, the above feature causes your speed to count as running (thus making footstep noises)
Thing I found weird is that when I move diagonal it seems I'm running, not because of footsteps, but because of "feel". Am I wrong or is game in fact using running speed when moving diagonal? Because I haven't noticed any change in speed while moving diagonal. Could be that I'm not able to notice difference. Yet, better to confirm this.

Quote
Payl, hush.
I'm not_payl_obviously now thanks to jitspoe. Sorry to disappoint you.

EDIT:
Quote
I guess this request is to fix the second while leaving the first untouched.
There is cvar to disable that I believe. If in doubt, there is 'tripping' cvar which is best to set on all non-jump servers to annoy everyone.

ViciouZ

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Re: [BUG?] Walking diagonally = running
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2013, 05:27:01 PM »
I think I missed that the movement speed of the player while walking touching the ground is capped, slightly above normal run speed, which is why you get minimal speed boost from running diagonally, but a larger one when walking diagonally :) Also walk diagonally speed is slightly slower than run diagonally speed due to this.

You can check this all messing around with the "speedometer" command :)

not_payl_obviously

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Re: [BUG?] Walking diagonally = running
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2013, 06:31:59 PM »
I think I missed that the movement speed of the player while walking touching the ground is capped, slightly above normal run speed, which is why you get minimal speed boost from running diagonally, but a larger one when walking diagonally :) Also walk diagonally speed is slightly slower than run diagonally speed due to this.
Yeah, you are right, thanks for explanation.

Still, it's a bit weird I run at 21mph (is speedometer in mph?) diagonally, and I walk diagonally at 20mph... Just 1 mph, which explains why I wasn't able to notice this. I think this is why prozajik complains on that, this is weird and probably "fixing" it won't affect other things because normally you run anyway. (Still I'm doubtful if we need option to walk).

prozajik

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Re: [BUG?] Walking diagonally = running
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2013, 06:43:31 PM »
How did you manage to confuse me in my own post lol...
Anyway i checked it with PB and speedometer and now i get what you talking about. The only thing i am concerned about is the speed increase when walking diagonally. I would prefer to walk diagonally at 14 speed not 20, because i said i would like to use it for clutch lines.
But from your posts i understand that its like this in all quake engines and is common. So i guess it shouldnt be fixed. Well i will keep using crouch instead of walk if it cant be helped, thanks for clearing things up tho.

@not_payl
walk option is better than crouching in my opinion, because it doesnt "ruin" your line, if you crouch you start to line lower so if you want just to peek behind corner you have to do it while crouching because its more precise and it makes you line lower so enemies can jump over. With walking tho you dont have to care about jumping over line (altho ducking under is still option ^^).

not_payl_obviously

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Re: [BUG?] Walking diagonally = running
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2013, 07:08:34 PM »
How did you manage to confuse me in my own post lol...
Anyway i checked it with PB and speedometer and now i get what you talking about. The only thing i am concerned about is the speed increase when walking diagonally. I would prefer to walk diagonally at 14 speed not 20, because i said i would like to use it for clutch lines.
But from your posts i understand that its like this in all quake engines and is common. So i guess it shouldnt be fixed. Well i will keep using crouch instead of walk if it cant be helped, thanks for clearing things up tho.

@not_payl
walk option is better than crouching in my opinion, because it doesnt "ruin" your line, if you crouch you start to line lower so if you want just to peek behind corner you have to do it while crouching because its more precise and it makes you line lower so enemies can jump over. With walking tho you dont have to care about jumping over line (altho ducking under is still option ^^).
Well, not that useful for me, but I can see why you want to use it. I'm running out of keys to bind anyway.
I think while it's in Q2 engine this can be easily patched, but there are few possibilities:
-Reduce speed when moving diagonally in walk mode
-Remove footstep sound when walking, without carrying about speed. (not sure if protocol include information if player is walking or running tho).

So if jitspoe finds time for this: I'm for patching this, because it doesn't change too much in gameplay, and makes sense to use walking in certain situations (not just making it slower running with footsteps).

jitspoe

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Re: [BUG?] Walking diagonally = running
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2014, 01:28:04 AM »
You might be able to work around this with some fancy aliases to adjust cl_forwardspeed and cl_sidespeed.  ex: when pressing strafe keys, set cl_forwardspeed to 141, then set it back to 200 on release (and adjust cl_sidespeed when pressing forward/back keys).

prozajik

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Re: [BUG?] Walking diagonally = running
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2014, 07:20:15 AM »
You might be able to work around this with some fancy aliases to adjust cl_forwardspeed and cl_sidespeed.  ex: when pressing strafe keys, set cl_forwardspeed to 141, then set it back to 200 on release (and adjust cl_sidespeed when pressing forward/back keys).
141 is default running speed altho default value is 200. Speed for walking is 101. I tried using both cl_speeds to 101 and it was executed same way walk is. I guess i would need some functions which handles pressing W and pressing W+A differently.