Cargo

[Ace]

A lot of times, stuff like that gets fixed by either moving the brush a few times, or deleting and remaking the same brush.

I remade them multiple times, and it happens on all 4 corners of the map. Not really sure what else it could be except an odd angle.

Edit: Ended up fixing the issue areas by changing the angles, it was the only I could get it back to normal.

Edit2: List of things I'm working on at the front of the thread.

[jitspoe]

Judging: http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=26586.msg243262#msg243262

I like the big jump from mid-ish to flag.  Only problem is that it's the only 1, and it's so narrow that it's pretty easy to defend.  Not really a fan of the fact that much of the layout is copied from COD4 (though, admittedly, it plays better in Paintball2).  I think the non-jump paths to the flag could be streamlined a little bit.  I like the map overall.  Fun to jump around in.

As for the compiler error, it looks like some epsilon values probably need to be tweaked.  If you can reproduce the issue with just 2 brushes, that would be easiest to work with, otherwise, if you want to send me the whole .map, I can try reproducing it with that.  I saw it in a couple places on the kingdom map as well, so it's not just you.  Just a lack of testing the tweaks to the compiler.

[Ace]

If you can reproduce the issue with just 2 brushes, that would be easiest to work with, otherwise, if you want to send me the whole .map, I can try reproducing it with that.

I'd be happy to send the map file over if you want to try to figure out what is causing it. My fix was offsetting each angle by a couple units until it didn't glitch anymore. I'll send it over if you'd like to mess with it.

I like the big jump from mid-ish to flag.  Only problem is that it's the only 1, and it's so narrow that it's pretty easy to defend.

I think the non-jump paths to the flag could be streamlined a little bit.

I am working on a fix for the narrowness, but it is difficult to keep the ship appearance while widening up the map. The non-jump paths were taken mostly from wetworks because of the time crunch I had to finish up the mid. I was planning to change it up more once it was played on a few times, and people noticed what was used, and what was a waste of space.

Thanks for the feedback, I'll try to tweak things out for beta 3.

[jitspoe]

Sounds good.  I think you have room to make the ship plenty wide: http://www.infocomrade.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/cargo-ship.jpg, http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/02/22/article-1359378-0D4E2A6F000005DC-24_964x521.jpg.  One minor thing, but you might want to make one end of the boat look like a bow and the other a stern, rather than being perfectly mirrored.  Some custom textures with rivets and such could make the map look a lot nicer, too (ex: http://4photos.net/photosv2/425969_ship_rivets.jpg).

[Ace]

Sounds good.  I think you have room to make the ship plenty wide: http://www.infocomrade.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/cargo-ship.jpg, http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/02/22/article-1359378-0D4E2A6F000005DC-24_964x521.jpg.  One minor thing, but you might want to make one end of the boat look like a bow and the other a stern, rather than being perfectly mirrored.  Some custom textures with rivets and such could make the map look a lot nicer, too (ex: http://4photos.net/photosv2/425969_ship_rivets.jpg).

I'll throw the stern/bow thing into the to do list. I'd love to make the boat wider, but it would have to be a major overhaul, and probably not in b3, but I think I will widen it some before it goes to the final. I actually just started to work on a rivet texture last night. Any more texture ideas from people would be great.

[jitspoe]

A minor thing, but try to use "metal" in the file texture name, so it will have metal impact sounds and fit the theme.  I think the best thing to do is just look at pictures of ships and get reference/inspiration.

[Rick]

My Judging:
This is MY opinion. I'm sorry if everyone does not agree with me. If you feel I have marked wrong or anything, please PM me with DETAILS.

Detail - 88/100
Brushes in the map that are primarly there to make it look nice.
  Relevance - How does the detail compare to the rest of the map? Is it relevant to the theme and style? Or is it random? (25/25)
Detail seems very relevant, though I doubt anyone that has a cargo ship would put glass to hold up metal steps

   Appearance - Is it visually appealing? Does it make you want to play the map? (23/25)
This is my favourite looking map at the moment.. it's very cool. I just checked what the "Wet Works" map looks like on cod and I think you've done a pretty good job, especially considering this game has a lot more constraints.

   Suitability to Gameplay - How does the detail collaborate with gameplay? (20/25)
Most the detail lets you make up your own jumps (railings, cargo, etc). Though it's somewhat hard to navigate without hitting anything.

   Quantity - Is there too little? Is there too much? Or is there enough? (20/25)
You could maybe finish off the "control" rooms in each base, as it's very plain. I don't think you could go much further without increasing the r_speeds a lot.

Jumps - 97/100
Judge based on the jumps of the map
  Quanity - Are they too rare? Are they too common? (22/25)
There is a nice quantity and well, you can kind of 'make them up as you go', it's really fun.

   Suitablity - Are the jumps randomly placed? Are they needed? Do they work well? (25/25)
I'm not too sure what to say, I love these jumps and they seem to be perfect, with a lot of room for discovery.

   Relevance - Are the jumps relevantly placed? Are they Leading to places of importance? (25/25)
The jumps are perfectly placed to grab the flag, capture, switch from low to high etc. They are all very relevant and help gameplay so much.

  Range - Are there jumps for people of all skill level? Some easy jumps and some hard? (25/25)
A good range of jumps.

Gameplay - 61/100
Judge based on how fun the map is to play
  Flow - Do you get stuck anywhere? Can you get from place to place without any fuss? (10/15)
It's very hard to navigate low without getting stuck on anything (except if you do the speed jump ofcourse ). Some of the gaps were very narrow.

  Items (placed) - Are the items placed in convienient locations? Will they affect gameplay negatively? Are they present at all? (8/10)
None at base, seems like a fair amount mid though.

  Spawns - Will you get spawn killed? Are the spawns varied enough? Are they fair? (8/10)
A lot of variations with spawns, so spawn killing shouldn't be too much of a trouble. Though, some do appear to spawn a lot further back than others.

  Lines - Do the lines look interesting? Are they used for the sake of being used or do they serve a purpose? Is the Visibility of the map good? Can players see  other players at certain points only? And does this help or hinder gameplay?(10/15)
Line of sight is a bit eh, as you can see every path from where the enemy could come from base. Though, there is a lot of different ways you can go, so that may not be much of an issue. If I were playing, I'd line the speed jump from the get go. It's kind of hard to line on the map other than that, I think.

  Capping + Grabbing - Is it too easy/ hard to grab? Is it too easy/ hard to cap? Are the flags worth too much or too little? (25/30)
I actually like the capping and grabbing on this map. Hard, but not too hard to camp, and it'd be hard to capture with someone protecting flag. It's a huge advantage to the older players, though, as you could just speed over the newbies to cap and go grab again before they could grab.

  Layout - Are all the paths equal in terms of speed? Is the scale of the map good? (10/20)
It's a bit too clustered, I feel. Doing the speed jump will save you a lot of time over someone just going across low. It's pretty good though!

Technical Skill - 40/50
The quality of the mapping techniques used.

  R_Speeds - Are the r_speeds low enough for play? Has the mapper done a good job at keeping them low? Will it be laggy for some players? (15/25)
3.5k+  r_speeds in some areas, not bad considering the map.

  Alignments - Are the textures aligned correctly? (10/10)
Didn't see any.

  Brush + Grid work - Is there technique good? Is the grid size appropriate? Have they used clipping planes (if they are relevant)? etc. (15/15)
The brush work seems to be fine.

Innovation - 28/50
Is this map NEW and EXCITING or have we seen it before?
  Innovation/ Unique - Have we seen this all before? Or were you impressed by the fresh look of the map? (28/50)  
It's a shame you took the design from another game, though it is very unique in this game. I love it.

Overall - 314/400

[ViciouZ]

Once again, thanks to Rick for the template.

Detail - 80/100
Brushes in the map that are primarly there to make it look nice.
   Relevance - How does the detail compare to the rest of the map? Is it relevant to the theme and style? Or is it random? (20/25)
Nice relevant railings and archways.

   Appearance - Is it visually appealing? Does it make you want to play the map? (25/25)
Yes, looks very nice, very cohesive.

   Suitability to Gameplay - How does the detail collaborate with gameplay? (15/25)
Seems all well scaled for doublejumps and such.

   Quantity - Is there too little? Is there too much? Or is there enough? (20/25)
About right.

Jumps - 80/100
Judge based on the jumps of the map
   Quantity - Are they too rare? Are they too common? (20/25)
Quite a lot, as jitspoe mentioned.

   Suitability - Are the jumps randomly placed? Are they needed? Do they work well? (20/25)
They seem fairly randomly placed, in the container section at least, but it works. The stair ramps are well placed.

   Relevance - Are the jumps relevantly placed? Are they Leading to places of importance? (20/25)
Not in particular, although it doesn't seem that bad as there are few pickups anyway. Most lead to high ground, so that works.

   Range - Are there jumps for people of all skill level? Some easy jumps and some hard? (20/25)
Yes, at least there are chains of jumps for higher skilled players.

Gameplay - 48/100
Judge based on how fun the map is to play
   Flow - Do you get stuck anywhere? Can you get from place to place without any fuss? (10/15)
It's alright, but there are two loads of containers that generally slow down the pace a lot for bad jumpers.

   Items (placed) - Are the items placed in convienient locations? Will they affect gameplay negatively? Are they present at all? (3/10)
Only items I found were the autococker set in the middle. That's fair enough, but where are ammo pickups for the rest of the map?

   Spawns - Will you get spawn killed? Are the spawns varied enough? Are they fair? (5/10)
Quite varied, although there is one questionable one where you spawn facing your own base.

   Lines - Do the lines look interesting? Are they used for the sake of being used or do they serve a purpose? Is the Visibility of the map good? Can players see other players at certain points only? And does this help or hinder gameplay?(5/15)
Some incredibly long lines of sight in this map, and anyone going for either base will be visible at some point - there are no map separations.

   Capping + Grabbing - Is it too easy/ hard to grab? Is it too easy/ hard to cap? Are the flags worth too much or too little? (15/30)
Grabbing and capping both mandate travelling the whole way down the one big path and all the way back. Doable, but I wouldn't anticipate it happening too much in 10+ player pub games.

   Layout - Are all the paths equal in terms of speed? Is the scale of the map good? (10/20)
It is pretty much one big path, so the speed is equal, and the map isn't too small, but would probably get cramped relatively quickly as the player count adds up.

Technical Skill - 27/50
The quality of the mapping techniques used.

   R_Speeds - Are the r_speeds low enough for play? Has the mapper done a good job at keeping them low? Will it be laggy for some players? (5/25)
With an average wpoly on spawn of 1.5k, and a view looking down the whole map of ~3k, this map is not particularly well optimised; this is understandable given the design. However, some more attempts could have been made, such as playing with the -chop values and perhaps simplifying some of the circular geometry. Gotta mark you down here, sorry.

   Alignments - Are the textures aligned correctly? (10/10)
Yes, as far as I could see, apart from the one that was quickly mentioned and fixed.

   Brush + Grid work - Is their technique good? Is the grid size appropriate? Have they used clipping planes (if they are relevant)? etc. (12/15)
Everything seems nicely aligned and squarely on the grid. As mentioned, the curved geometry has a lot of sides which is bringing the wpoly up.

Innovation - 30/50
Is this map NEW and EXCITING or have we seen it before?
   Innovation/ Unique - Have we seen this all before? Or were you impressed by the fresh look of the map? (30/50) 
Nice idea for a map, not unique in FPS but unique to paintball. Nice use of uni's textures too.

Overall - 265/400

Also, if you did manage to the wpoly down a bit, you could copy CoD a bit more and use rscripts to make a huge wavy water surface outside the boat

[Ace]

In Progress
-Changing the textures to have a proper naming system
-Changing blue containers to have a proper lid.
-Fixing compiling error on the bow/stern railing.
-Add clipping on little edges etc. where people are getting stuck.
-Change edge clipping to allow players to get on the railing, except for on stern/bow
-Redo the bases to get rid of the ugly shadowing that is going on
-Slow down the top route
-Looking into alternatives to glass that would still allow for decent vision. Probably changing to that metal cable/grid texture.
-Create a few new textures
-Widen the map/paths
-Add sound to the map. (The one terror mentioned)

Been busy with school work, updated the list of things I'm working on Beta 3 by the end of the week.

[prozajik]

Played it in match today, altho just few minutes, because our opponents complained they dont have textures, so we decided to switch to other map. Maybe you can take sth from it.

http://banterous.co.uk/demo/1025

PS:This texture thingy should be fixed somehow. Maybe OTB servers dont have the correct textures?

[Squeeze]

I can proof that, I have allowed downloading, checked all boxes in my PCDP menu, and still not downloaded textures of this map. IDK where problem is.
I tried delete this map right now and put newmap on OTB 2 beta/cargo_b2, still not downloaded textures.

[Ace]

The texture problem is because the container textures were in a different folder than the one on otb, it's already fixed for b3. Thanks for the demo proz.

[jitspoe]

I'd be happy to send the map file over if you want to try to figure out what is causing it. My fix was offsetting each angle by a couple units until it didn't glitch anymore. I'll send it over if you'd like to mess with it.

Do you still have the map file from the version that had problems?  Could you email that to me? (jitspoeAyahooDcom)

[Ace]

Do you still have the map file from the version that had problems?  Could you email that to me? (jitspoeAyahooDcom)

I have b1 and b2, i'll send both.

[Ace]

Little update, my HD with the map files for this crashed, recovered most of the data, but the beta I've been working on for a few months got corrupted. Putting this on hold unless i find motivation to redo 3 months of updates.

[jitspoe]

Any of it recoverable?

* jitspoe makes a note to run backups when he gets back home.

[rockitude]

I think your map doesn't include models like a plant. It should be possible to recompile it with the .bsp version or not?

[Ace]

Both bsp and map versions got corrupted, otherwise I would just take it from one or the other. I found an a later version that I sent to jits to look at. So hopefully I can get it back to where it was now that school is over with.

[jitspoe]

Hm, unfortunately, I think you send me one of the earlier betas since I was trying to investigate a compiler bug.  I'll try to remember to check when I get home, though.  Do you remember how you sent it?

[Ace]

It's pretty early on, but it's better than the beta2 that I uploaded here. Lots of fixes that 2 didn't have. I sent it through email. I was gonna scrap through a few accounts tonight.