The possibility of a new map?

[Clipz]

If I were to make a map what would you want to see?

Would you want me to make a new map?

Would you want me to remake mystique so it fits today's game play style?

Or should I just not even bother to make a map since no one likes to play new maps?

This isn't a flame thread I won't get butt hurt if you say don't bother because it won't get played.

[Cameron]

Maybe a TDM map?  These days I actively avoid playing CTF in other games as there are other more enjoyable game modes, but I can't avoid it here as pretty much every map is a CTF map.  Other options would include Seige/KOTH, but since the majority of play these days in pubs is speed, they wouldn't work too well.

[omni]

A new map is always cool. But yeah I feel like its a waste of time. Unless you actually have fun in making the maps.

[KURWAJAPIERDOLE]

Make DM/TDM map. I'm making one now. Html said he will run up new DM server in few days so some new DM maps would be great.

[MyeRs]

New maps get played when they outclass currently played maps. Every map was a new point at one point or another.

Some maps are never touched. Some maps are played everyday for a few months then disappear (ie zpar). Some maps are loved and continued to play ever since they were made (ie Wobluda).

The issue is there aren't enough quality maps being released that have a mix of aesthetics, jumps, teamwork, and just all round gameplay. I had hard times looking for beta maps when I made the tournament because there's so few maps that really work. A lot of people kept listing me maps, but running through them they just do not work.

If you enjoy mapping, and feel as though you can make a map that can become played in DP, and your mapping is at a level that you can be even or better than current maps than i would suggest you make a map. If not, I would suggest only do it if you truly enjoy the process of making it.  

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If you decide to do it - don't remake Mystique. The map plays fine - but it's just 2 narrow side paths, an awkwardish mid, no real jumps, bumping your head on stuff every second, and a base thats well made but all the paths that can be used for quality setups are useless as nobody can camp due to mid flag. Tip#1: Most people in DP make good bases and struggle at mids. Don't put a white flag. Make there be play in the base as that's where people seem to be stronger.

Secondly - Don't be lazy on your terrain. That's what ruins the majority of your maps. The terrain is sloppy and just boxy. It makes it look bad and play bad. You've admitted to me it is because you're lazy. But terrain goes a long way in making a map play well. Not many mappers can successfully make good terrain.

I'd recommend sticking outdoor-ish. It's just easier to succeed in an outdoor map. Or a mix indoor/outdoor map. But don't do purely indoor. There's a reason those maps don't get played. 1 hit kill game, you need space. You need good jumps. You need jumps that don't have a definite start/end point. You need ability to camp/rush/setup. Ideally, forcing trades is possible but not super easy.

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Don't make a DM/TDM. Waste of your time. DP has been around this long and rarely get's played in DM/TDM. I would assume you're looking more to get a map played, and DM/TDM immediately means it is only played at most on that 1 TDM server that might get 3 people on it one evening.  Make a CTF. Make it to be played by the majority.

[V a r a n u s]

New maps are nice but yeah like you said no one likes new maps. I think it would be a waste of time.

[Toxiic]

Id love to see a map that is completely unfair and whoever picks the color/side will always win. Make it based on LoL mechanics insta-lock ftw. This map has to be so bad that its good.

But yea, I woudnt MiND playing a map that has good game play.

[Cameron]

Don't make a DM/TDM. Waste of your time. DP has been around this long and rarely get's played in DM/TDM. I would assume you're looking more to get a map played, and DM/TDM immediately means it is only played at most on that 1 TDM server that might get 3 people on it one evening.  Make a CTF. Make it to be played by the majority.

There's a big difference to DM and TDM and I don't think you should be comparing them here.  Comparing TDM to CTF you really have two different variables.  One being that there are no flags, the aim is to eliminate people.  Second being that revive time has been thrown out the window.  Therefore it still fully supports the speedness of pubs these days, and all of the newbies hunger to shoot people, but you don't loose the support of a team.  Other thing is, being team based, you can still use it in matches...

[gonass]

I think a lot of the appeal of some of the newer maps is that they're harder to camp.  Nothing's more boring than everyone sitting in base.  Multiple flags and paths are a must, imo.

[Toxiic]

I think a lot of the appeal of some of the newer maps is that they're harder to camp.  Nothing's more boring than everyone sitting in base.  Multiple flags and paths are a must, imo.

Most players want like the new style maps alot more because like you stated, less camping. But there is also another factor. Some of the most played maps have speed and areas to make amazing 'pro','montage','luck' shots. That when people make those shots, you get a instant reaction of 'OHH' or 'luck' or 'walls' or 'demo1!1!1!' or the famous 'LOL!OL!OL!LOL!OL!OL!OL!OL'. Also keep the map simple not to big, not to small. Keep the paths so that it really doesnt create a opening to 'caps', [in other words people can sit at flg 1 and protect flg 1 completely-99% and atleast line flg 2 and keep an eye out for flg 2, but not have that 90% flg 2 protection]. Keep the DJ minium, dont make it so that people need to DJ to grab, but always a good to make it an option for faster grabs, but the difference shouldnt be that huge. For example: Player A grabs flg 2 without dj, and player B grabs flg 2 with dj, the only advantage player B that should have at most is that player can come half way across which gives map controll. That is what I think what people now want, and would play. All this literately applies to every map that is played nowadays, the common ones.

To define simple map lets use recon: The more recon areas the more complicated the map is. So theoretically, a map that has 1 recon, it the most simple map. So when designing a map, try to keep the recon low. 'Good map' has about 10-15 recon. For example: pp1 # of recons- is ideal.

Once again, all the common maps played in matches seem to have this in common.

As for euros: They want speed and more speed well thats only og

[Ace]

The only reason to make a map now is if you really enjoy doing it. You could make a god-tier map and it still only has a 20% chance of ever being played.

[FusSioN]

koth.

[Clipz]

I like the idea of TDM CTF and DM I could make a map and release them separately for each game mode with little tweaks to each one.

[MyeRs]

DM / TDM servers never get played. There's been servers. There was even that DM map tournament that I think Viciouz ran. Had a server up for it for a few weeks, it didn't get people.

If you make a "god tier" map. It WILL get played. Why do you think Pbcup maps got played? Or Propaint1? Or all the other maps that came out at different times yet still get played. Because good maps get played. The issue is a lack of good maps.

You need to make a map that is as good or better than current played maps if you expect yours to be played. A lot of new mappers make too many paths (you need to be able to recon, you don't need 6-7 paths.) They also make jumps so forced it's awkward (you need to be able to make jumps multiple ways, not a set start/end point). And finally, you need good gameplay.

If you're able to make a really good map - and you have a good idea - feel as though you can properly make it - then I recommend doing it. 

[Cameron]

DM / TDM servers never get played. There's been servers. There was even that DM map tournament that I think Viciouz ran. Had a server up for it for a few weeks, it didn't get people.

Servers aren't dependent on the game mode... they're dependent on the maps you put in the rotation.  Chuck the occasional DM/TDM map in with a CTF dominated rotation and it'll get played.  For DM a good example is dome, small map with autocockers.  Yeah you can't match on it, but I've never seen it kill a server (mind you since DM maps aren't in many rotations these days, it's been a while since I've seen it getting played).

[MyeRs]

Servers aren't dependent on the game mode... they're dependent on the maps you put in the rotation.  Chuck the occasional DM/TDM map in with a CTF dominated rotation and it'll get played.  For DM a good example is dome, small map with autocockers.  Yeah you can't match on it, but I've never seen it kill a server (mind you since DM maps aren't in many rotations these days, it's been a while since I've seen it getting played).

I've seen plenty of DM maps kill servers. Granted, it could be cause of no good DM maps made - but the point is CTF servers get more demand and get played, DM don't. Putting the higher demand into CTF. Not to mention CTF can benefit the matching scene and the public scene, whereas DM can only "potentially" help the public scene.

Clipz is an experienced player who has stated in almost every map released about how he doesn't care about texture alignments and focused on trying to make good gameplay.  A public server map should be aesthetically perfect as it's to show new players the game - but competitive map doesn't necessarily need to be. So based on Clipz's history and what the game could benefit the most from, I would suggest CTF map is the only way to go.

[Cameron]

Not to mention CTF can benefit the matching scene and the public scene, whereas DM can only "potentially" help the public scene.

What is to say that a TDM map couldn't benefit the matching scene?  You still work as a team, just that the tactics and objectives have changed.  There's no 'rule' that prevents you from playing the gamemode in matches, just that you'd probably annoy the other team for choosing a map and gamemode that they aren't used to playing.

[FusSioN]

why is everyone here not mentioning koth but me. u still work as a team in here

[lukip]

If I were to make a map what would you want to see?

Would you want me to make a new map?

Would you want me to remake mystique so it fits today's game play style?

Or should I just not even bother to make a map since no one likes to play new maps?

This isn't a flame thread I won't get butt hurt if you say don't bother because it won't get played.

if youre up to make a map, dont remake mystique. build a new one.

some points i would like to find in a map:
- CTF > this mode has proven itself for years, (almost) every map in a match is a CTF map. and it has the best chance to get played too.

- base > 2-3 ways in/out of the base, you shouldnt get forced to go one and the same way everytime because its the fastest one.     

- flags > give the opponents a chance of a grabkill in a 2v1/3v1 situation, or even a chance to cap when theyre doing it well.
             it should be possible to defend the base, but it shoulnt be to easy. airtime or shazam22 for example, you can gain pretty much points just by camping.
             but if you look at prolandr, you can see its pretty hard to defend and not to get grabbed/capped on. a map with 2 flags would be the best choice in my opinion.
             examples for flagpositioning: pbcup_pforest, g2_b2, prolandr.

- terrain > a terrain like on Dirty_Tacos maps would be cool, you arent forced to go a way and you got many possibilitys in a fight. its "more flexible" or w/e.

- size > no idea how to measure that, but again. pfo, g2, prol are well sized maps for 2v2/3v3.

so this is my opinion so far, i know i stole pretty much from myerz and co but thats because i agree with them on many points. i may add something in this post later, if i got anything more to say.

[MyeRs]

What is to say that a TDM map couldn't benefit the matching scene?  You still work as a team, just that the tactics and objectives have changed.  There's no 'rule' that prevents you from playing the gamemode in matches, just that you'd probably annoy the other team for choosing a map and gamemode that they aren't used to playing.

What's to say it couldn't benefit the match scene... oh you know... this games been around how long? and how many TDM matches have you seen? There has been TDM maps, yet they don't get played. Why? The game play is more static. You don't need to worry about your team. You run around aimlessly trying to find people to kill. CTF brings a degree of strategy, you need to cover paths on a map. You need to setup to get more points. You need to defend properly to deny points. You need to communicate to setup revive caps.

CTF brings a higher dimension which is why it has always been the only consistently used game mode in matches. If you play TDM you can find new hiding spots every time you're alive and hope someone walks in front of you to backshot them. Wow much strategy.

At best, a TDM map MIGHT get used occasionally on some public servers.

At best, a CTF map will get matched on and pubbed on.

If Clipz does a good job on the map he makes, a CTF map will see significantly more success.

Most games have a mix of CTF/ControlPoints/TDM/etc for some public servers, and control points/ctf etc.. for the competitive scene. Considering DP's pub scene is heavily based on the people who are also in the matching scene, or newbies who don't really care regardless as long as it's not crazy jumps everywhere - I'd say CTF is realistically the only thing that makes sense.