Visual Update: Blitz

[MyeRs]

I have heard a few complaints that the map Blitz has been "messed up" for almost a decade now (cap points set to 30, forced ammo pickup, red spawns facing wrong way) - Not sure what caused that, but then we fixed those and people started playing it - next complaint was too hard to see the windows.

Comparing default to "blitz_b2" we noticed differences that impacted gameplay, and therefore made it not played. So, I tried to find a middle ground before the two. I am not a great mapper, I am sure someone can do a better job - but this "visual update" provides no changes to any gameplay, mirroring the original version.

I have not included the BSP file as I have requested permission to do a visual update on the map - since it is not yet clear if they are allowed or not. Will update if given approval or informed approval does not matter.

Pictures include:
1) Original Blitz
2) Visual Update
3) Low res visual update
4) Original Blitz
5) Visual Update

[JeongWa]

Solid. Last time we played this map i was complaining about not seeing windows.
Where is the bsp file ?

[MyeRs]

Approved to visually update - attached is the version.

[jitspoe]

Guess I never posted this on the forums.  We should collaborate instead of having 10 (more) blitz variations floating around.  Here's the visual overhaul I have in progress: http://dplogin.com/files/maps/beta/blitz_b2.bsp

Also attached the .map file.  I wanted to make some sort of net texture to help with the visibility a bit, though what you've done with the windows could work well.  Also wasn't sure if I should keep the bunkers open or seal them to be closer to the original.  I think the ones by the barrels should be closed, as it's easy to get hung up on them, but not sure about the others.

[ic3y]

I like jitspoe's design of blitz, but I would close all bunkers. And you modified the size of the windows.
MyeRs design is closer to the original one.

I would like to see a merged version of both.

[MyeRs]

We played tested Original Blitz, My blitz, and Jitspoes blitz.

General Comments:

Original: People who play this are mainly because they actually just enjoy the map a lot - so they see no negative.
- General Negatives: Windows too hard to see

2020Blitz: People generally liked the visual changes (all sizes were identical to default)
- Negative Comment: Shk said "too hard to see people" because of the trim.   ---> This is something I think could be changed by modifying the vertical trim to be 2 "pillars" on each side of the glass, rather than 1 across piece - creates a "window" view between the pillars.

JitspoeBlitz_b2: Aesthetically people liked it - but gameplay had more issues.
Issues:
- Going inside the bunkers felt awkward,
- Bullet drop made lines weird (where a line might have landed on the window "ledge" now goes to the ground)
- Window sizes are bigger than default
- Can not crouch under window - you are visible to be hit
- Fence-Post can interrupt speed jump
- Barrel instead of floating box --> The box serves a purpose. The person "camping" cannot shoot under, but the person "pushing" can line under. Gives advantage to rushing.

Overall - I am a fan of the aesthetics of yours. I choose metals when I update a map because for the level of mapping I am at, it is easier to look good. (Wood requires aligning grain, scaling, etc.. whereas metal is more forgiving - and I like the look). But, you obviously have more mapping ability, and made it look good. But it would require some minor tweaks (window sizing, bunkers, post on side).

I feel as though Visual Updates should stay completely true to default - and yours would be nicer than mine for sure if you made a few adjustments to be true to the default map. Don't think much of a collab is needed - if you're able to make the changes outlined above I will gladly delete mine.

@ic3y: I just decompiled, added borders. It's exact dimensions to original

PS: jitspoe whys your sky so low-res?

[Rick]

Both maps are definitely an improvement over the original, I do hate your boxes though Myers. Apart from that, your version seems to still be the good old blitz game play, and is probably a good candidate to simply replace the original blitz, whereas jitspoe's seems to introduce some new tactics and would probably be better suited to be a new map (paintfield is a good name!).

[jitspoe]

I don't think my changes are significant enough to warrant a different map.  I just wanted to replace blitz.bsp with something that looked better.  I don't recall making the windows a different size.  Pretty sure I also just decompiled the map to ensure dimensions were the same.  That may be a side effect of making the inside of the bunker open.  I can close them up and see how it plays.

I don't really like the idea of floating bunkers (in this context -- maybe for a scifi map).  Perhaps the barrels could be propped up on a couple bricks or boards or something so there's still a gap but they're not just floating?  I wasn't aware people were so competitive about blitz -- I thought it was a super casual pub map.

[JeongWa]

Both of your remake are good looking. While jistpoe's remake has a more natural touch, myers's is exactly the same as original.

that being said gameplaywise:

- myers's has exactly same gameplay as original

- jitspoe's has those annoying wooden window supports on which you get stuck same as for the wooden fence supports.

I would prefer jitspoe's remake for the natural look of his remake but gameplay-wise right now those wooden supports inside windows & the wooden fence supports are annoying.

[Rick]

I don't think my changes are significant enough to warrant a different map.  I just wanted to replace blitz.bsp with something that looked better.

I do agree your version is still very much the map blitz but at the same time it's not, it's more of a remake (which is not a bad thing, don't get me wrong). Map naming is such a grey area... When are changes considered enough to warrant a new map name, or the map to replace the original? Is this like pbcup and sdcup? Or is it like wobluda, wobluda_fix, wobluda_jits, wobluda_whoa? Or is this the new blitz.bsp? This would be a great discussion to have in another topic.

I don't recall making the windows a different size.  Pretty sure I also just decompiled the map to ensure dimensions were the same.  That may be a side effect of making the inside of the bunker open.  I can close them up and see how it plays.

Yeah, Myers was showing Primo and I last night around the different blitz versions to get our opinions - definitely could still hit the player when crouched behind the bunker.

[Toolwut]

Nice to see these overhauls, both are big improvements compared to the original. Would be cool to have the old blitz overwritten by such an updated version at some point.

[ic3y]

Closed bunkers and some small changes. Based on jitspoes .map.

[MyeRs]

Closed bunkers and some small changes. Based on jitspoes .map.

FYI The fence post in mid also needs adjusting, as it can block the speedjump.

Will test later though, looks good!

[jitspoe]

Oof, you managed to break all the wood texture alignment.

I think I've fixed everything discussed.  I somehow offset some stuff from the original, resulting in the low windows.  I also tried using colors in the windows like Myers did to help improve clarity.

I do find it amusing how many times the middle fence support was complained about when it's clipped and the original blitz just stopped you dead.   I just moved the posts to be flush.  Let me know if there's anything else.

http://dplogin.com/files/maps/beta/blitz_b3.bsp

[ic3y]

Oof, you managed to break all the wood texture alignment.

A thing I would do in one of the latest beta builds as long the layout isn't set at all.

Your mid windows are a bit too high now.

[jitspoe]

A thing I would do in one of the latest beta builds as long the layout isn't set at all.

It's a lot easier to align as you go, though.  You can just duplicate/move brushes and they're already aligned.  It's like 20x more work to align after the fact (and easy to miss stuff).

Your mid windows are a bit too high now.

I can lower them.  I was trying to match the original.

[jitspoe]

I saw one misaligned brush that I need to fix.  Did anybody have any feedback on this version?  Should I lower the mid windows?  I tried to make everything match the original pretty closely so if you watch demos on the old blitz.bsp this will work as a drop-in replacement, but some minor adjustments might not be a bad idea.

Edit: Also made the entities on this one like the .ent file that most servers use.  I assume we don't want the 30pt cap and a boatload of autocockers lying around in the spawn area.  Not sure if co2 should be loaded or not, though.

[MyeRs]

I saw one misaligned brush that I need to fix.  Did anybody have any feedback on this version?  Should I lower the mid windows?  I tried to make everything match the original pretty closely so if you watch demos on the old blitz.bsp this will work as a drop-in replacement, but some minor adjustments might not be a bad idea.

Edit: Also made the entities on this one like the .ent file that most servers use.  I assume we don't want the 30pt cap and a boatload of autocockers lying around in the spawn area.  Not sure if co2 should be loaded or not, though.

Will play-test tonight if I get a chance with some of the pickier-blitz-lovers and give you feedback.

Regarding C02 --> Consensus I got back was "loaded"

[UnRateD]

I didnt read the words but I looked at the pictures, I guess its subjective but I like the smoother textures Myers uses more than I like the realistic ones. I think the realistic ones just look like theyre made with older animation quality, a little inaccurate.

[redguy]

Nice to see these overhauls, both are big improvements compared to the original. Would be cool to have the old blitz overwritten by such an updated version at some point.

This is something that really bothers me a lot. Stop overwriting maps, mapping is one of the reasons that makes dp:p2 so special. Everyone can make a map, get feedback from others and play on his "creation" (and maybe play on it after years to get some nostalgic feelings) . Overwriting maps on the other side..is absolutely disgusting. Had a match where we wanted to play on the older napalm, but couldn't play, because it was overwritten (and yes, even if the difference between both maps are eventually minimal).
I had to revive this post because i was forced to match on this and found out that there are newer versions of it (are people still working on it?). Like said, it would be sad to see that maps would be get overwritten -- especially maps that has creation story's like blitz.bsp has. Not overwriting on the other side is the easiest method for new maps. Just think about it, DP:P2 is not known for having active serveradmins (example superman - its really likely that his server will be used when there are no other NA admins). If a map is not used, no one will use its name. However, if it will be used people shouldn't have problems with using the names of the better maps, right? (and by the way, this is the same method that dplogin works with, you save YOUR name that no-other player can use and a mapper saves HIS mapname so NO ONE can use/change it and his map will be something special, we really should respect this).
Mistakes were made in the past (e.g. wobluda_fix), but looks like the best and easiest method currently (because some server admins are already overwriting maps which leads to me always re-downloading those maps ) is to rename those newer maps or put something.on its name so it will be a new map (what it really is).
Something that I also see many times is that mapper often not put their names on the mapinfo, which is kinda sad because those mappers invest time in it and no-one knows them (e.g. selda for his awesome wobluda_fix that probably every active player is playing every day). There should be at least an official instance that should be putted in the mapinfo, like „Re-textured by the Map Committee“, because why would you give credit to a mapper, when he didn't changed it visually (which is pretty much one of the most important aspects of EVERY map)?