Exploiting. Loial to lower standards in Paintball.

[loial21]

In the eight or so years I have played this Mod. My standards have never lead me to adjust any settings that have to be done in the console.

My hopes of having a matching community with set (and known to all) standards are limiting my ability to compete at the highest level, in a DP CTF clan match.

Because of this communities disregard for fairness to newer players its time to lower my standards and compete at your level.

Its been said If every single person is 'cheating' its not cheating. I refuse to believe ever person uses or has access the same knowledge base. I could not rationalize the console binding as not cheating. FYI when its not made available in a download of the game or official releases, its considered an exploit. 

(New players are not all FPS newbs. Dont treat them like one)
Besides  Jitspoe, there are those who could have helped make the matching community some what fairer to the newer players of the game. Dont get me wrong I thank all for what this game is and has become "A unique experience like no other FPS can claim."

Too often this community has its head up its own ass (my self included) smelling how wonder our excrement is and how well this game smells. We forget about others outside the game and their right to have fun and enjoy this game. My apology if I ever chased anyone away. I am Zealous of others.

(*A huge Inhale is heard followed by a single thunderous echoing laugh) Yes its just a game, but so is life.

[Eiii]

Any player who looks could very easily find out how to bind, use aliases, simple stuff like that. Just because players won't put in the effort to find these things out for themselves doesn't mean we shouldn't be using them.

If that's what you're saying, of course. It's kind of hard to follow.

PS- what sort of binds and such do you consider cheating? I can't think of any. >_>

[XtremeBain]

Not to sure where you're going with this... but most competitive LANs/tournaments enforce a GUI-config rule which means that players can only use settings which are available in the GUI settings for the game.  In most cases "promods" are created with this in mind for elite players to compete at the highest level.  This has been seen in ET, BF2, Q3, Q4, Painkiller and the list goes on and on.

I can speak on behalf of [20ID] when I say that none of us use anything out of the ordinary.  We don't use zoom scripts, hand scripts, double-jump scripts, bright skins, spiked models, white textures, modified smoke, excessive gamma levels or anything to give us any sort of advantage.

I went through my config and found a few minor non-GUI "enhancements".

• cl_locknetfps 1 -- I think this is the default though... I know a lot of people have it disabled
• A small alias which switches to hand 2 when I am shooting and hand 3 when I am not (so I know what gun I'm carrying)
• A small alias so I can toggle netgraph with a single key
• A small alias to drop a large ammo box before dropping my hopper (so the paint doesn't get lost in the hopped when I drop it)
• Misc. recon and funname binds (no LOC stuff though)
• flagstatus, nextspawn and topspeed binds

Some [20ID] members may be using r_oldmodels 1 out of preference, but I don't think many are.  DirtyTaco and BoB probably have keys bound to "say lmfao", but that's a different story.  Even if you added up all of these "advantages" together, it still wouldn't amount to the advantage that the 3D sound system provides.  Too bad I cannot benefit from this in Linux.

Edit: Everyone [20ID] member except me uses a different fov setting.  I'm pretty sure I'm the only one that uses 90.  (But I use 110 or so in every other game).

[SkateR]

The only thing I use is..

Manual hand switching, I use my side mouse buttons
cl_locknetfps 0
cl_sleep 0
cl_maxfps 0

other than that, nothing

[iEATnoobs]

lmao

I can speak on behalf of [20ID] when I say that none of us use anything out of the ordinary.  We don't use zoom scripts, hand scripts, double-jump scripts, bright skins, spiked models, white textures, modified smoke, excessive gamma levels or anything to give us any sort of advantage.

Why say something like that? Do you really think they would tell you the truth?
But yea... i totally dont get what that loial is trying to say.

[XtremeBain]

lmao
Why say something like that? Do you really think they would tell you the truth?

It might come from gaming in the same clan with the same great players for over 6 years.  There's a certain level of trust established that no other team in this game comes close to.  It could also be that as a leader I have a zero-tolerance policy on cheating.  No member has ever been caught cheating, not even one time years ago.  We've gone through plenty anti-cheat measures (NoCheat, NoCheatServer, DP:PB2's built-in cheat protection and overnight detection of new cheats) and never have any of us made it to the wall of shame.

That sort of thing speaks for itself.

[Fyre]

What in God's name are you talking about Loial.

[JOE]

It might come from gaming in the same clan with the same great players for over 6 years.  There's a certain level of trust established that no other team in this game comes close to.  It could also be that as a leader I have a zero-tolerance policy on cheating.  No member has ever been caught cheating, not even one time years ago. 

link?

[loial21]

1.

Just because players won't put in the effort to find these things out for themselves doesn't mean we shouldn't be using them.

Thats why I said this my friend...

when its not made available in a download of the game or official releases, its considered an exploit.

Excellent summation Jesse. That is where I was going.
1.

but most competitive LANs/tournaments enforce a GUI-config rule which means that players can only use settings which are available in the GUI settings for the game

The rest of you seem you be lost on fairness. (I hope that is not the case. My points are well articulated. In fact it took the smartest person reading to correctly assume my point...oh snap!)

Jesse can you not influence others or is it within your skill set to shore up a competitive release for matching? I dont know so pardon the ignorant question.

[SkateR]

Why do you think changing fps settings for better results is cheating...?

[Spook]

some of us need to change fps to do certain things, it shouldn't be banned because some people don't know how to.

[Eiii]

when its not made available in a download of the game or official releases, its considered an exploit.

Excellent summation Jesse. That is where I was going.

Okay, now I'm confused. You're against us using binds and such, but for whatever's included in the game? The binding system is included in the game. It's not like we're using some crazy third-party thing that's making us all win. I still don't know what binds you feel really give an advantage to those using them, though.

[S8NSSON]

omg, seriously.
This goes right along with the "Let's not make a public stats system because the people at the bottom might feel bad."
Scripts are not exploits. The config file, and the bindings available, are part of the distributed game.
New players finding themselves overwhelmed? *tears* for them. It's a game, and it's competitive. YOU go roll out the welcome wagon and hold the hands of the new players. Alot of people take the competitive side of this fairly seriously. Win is their only goal, beyond fun even.

It's like anything on earth. If you're new you have three options; figure it out, have someone help you figure it out, or don't play.
God forbid we make anyone "feel bad".

[Eiii]

omg, seriously.
This goes right along with the "Let's not make a public stats system because the people at the bottom might feel bad."
Scripts are not exploits. The config file, and the bindings available, are part of the distributed game.
New players finding themselves overwhelmed? *tears* for them. It's a game, and it's competitive. YOU go roll out the welcome wagon and hold the hands of the new players. Alot of people take the competitive side of this fairly seriously. Win is their only goal, beyond fun even.

It's like anything on earth. If you're new you have three options; figure it out, have someone help you figure it out, or don't play.
God forbid we make anyone "feel bad".

<3 <3 <3
Also +.

[blaa]

We should stop using strafe jumping aswell. When I first started playing this game I did not see "helpful tips" section or something, and as this was my first shooter game ever, I thought those jumping guys are cheating.

There is'nt any information about binds, fovs, zoom scripts anywhere aswell, well maybe, if you search the forums you find plenty of stuff. But then again, if you are a forum user you must know anything anyway, total beginners wont find their way to here.  Can't really create a huge wiki or "helpful tips" page, because when I download a game I want to play it, not to read boring stuff.

There are few things which I think give too big advantage when modified via console. Sky changing is one thing. The only argument for sky changing is that you want to see your enemy hiding in dark places and where without sky changing you wouldnt see him, but when changing to lighter sky you will see the player thanks to lighter background (moonlit2r1, perfugio, airtime). Yeah, I use it, but everytime I "sky pbsky2" one little kitten dies.

[jitspoe]

Thanks for a legitimate example, blaa.  There are a limited selection of maps where changing the sky can increase player visibility.  I have already addressed this with a server side setting (sv_forcesky) that will disable sky changing for clients.

[loial21]

Eii you are reading too much into something.

Its about fairness and gaming standards. Nothing more, nothing less.

Keith good anal gee. What about wall hacks then. Is that ok? I mean, I could learn it or have someone show me. Or worse (which is my concern) new players quit. Hmmmm.

[blaa]

Another thing I just realized. Lekky posted new news in our website - www.clan-qehs.co.uk - he told that he has changed some textures so they make the game look better, my opinion is: every little wannabe cant and shouldnt change those things. Not only they may be unfair and considered cheating, but textures and making the game look better should be a task for game developpers. I understand that new textures made by different guys (y00tz i think and others) may be allowed by jitspoe, but I think he should add them in the next build and when the update comes then the textures are already there, you shouldnt make your own textures for yourself. Make something, give it to jitspoe and he will add it to the game.

[Playah]

There is'nt any information about binds, fovs, zoom scripts anywhere aswell, well maybe, if you search the forums you find plenty of stuff. But then again, if you are a forum user you must know anything anyway, total beginners wont find their way to here.  Can't really create a huge wiki or "helpful tips" page, because when I download a game I want to play it, not to read boring stuff.

I've always been saying to add those console-changes to the normal ingame Setup-menu. That would be the best solution to this problem imo.

[Eiii]

Keith good anal gee. What about wall hacks then. Is that ok?

when its not made available in a download of the game or official releases, its considered an exploit.

No.