Sprayfests vs. Strategy

[JpKool]

as for sprayfest vs. stragety there both the same hen when u use skill lol.
there need to be more maps like real life forests where have trees to hide behid and stumps.
and make some training maps so clans can train there clan members on, i dono if any are out there but if there is could someone plz tell me and send them to me.
and a military looking map would also be great, kinda something new.

[loial21]

xile i could not agree with you more...thankyou for translating some loialaneese 

 i am playing devil's advocate however gimme a break

..i undestand that the old schoolers like ourselves  love nothing more than to have a well played and thought out match on a large scale with mutipul routes its fun . For the few of us (seven j/k), the higher complexity of the win is savored most than a generic sprayfest .  point conceded

(ivplayed since quakeworld/ mostly q2 wod mod (talk about finger huritng action since sping of '98 /..call me a nuub and ull get yourslef a size 12e red wing boot in your crack and flying 180 degree head rail shot  along withmost of the dp community laughing at you for being ignorant)

couple more rambles

"make a poll get everyone to survey the poll and see what you come up with."     .......wish more people thought like you  .....you know the results sadly if most players joined the forum today.

This next one made freaking cry laughing ...

"but they were a minority and seniority in the game made sure they were kept in the minority."

rofl god how unfair is/was that  ....
what is this the 1950's?  j/k
nowonder only a small percetage of dp post here because of an elite few deciding what you like best and to say otherwise would be well just stupid  ..
facist ideals ...that is how communities die...that I dont want to see happen ...this game rocks

now that the minority is the seniority ?? ...so what now???   any anwsers ...smart asses excepted

"4 people on a team on a map like castle1. How they find that kind of dp fun just makes absolutly no sense to me"
taco smell the anwser is easy the larger the force your playing against the more enhanced your skils/strategy would need to overcome the opfor and prevent them from capping and for your to cap as well.....i thought was obvious to yall .....remember the game is evolving in to a skills fest instead of teamwork and stay alive a 3v3 or 7v7.....that is why i have ask jits to include some additional score methods for public and match servers ..to give a larger incentive for team work ..rather than change the game its self ...ie gun freeze , cap limit one per round,

good ideas..but if those are so important now , what took so long to get them added , why ever have 300 hoppers...games is changing from what it used to be .....fun

its hard understand that at one point we all agree that the old times are better....folks we are changing what used to be ...into somethign else ..and only the currect active players decide which direction it goes , with out them ...you will have servers full of 0 vs 0

last point
 most of the points made here would best be made in reference to matches ....but the fact is no one really matches any more ....lets try to change that by offering a match set system accessable via the web and irc ...can do?
 
 

[loial21]

ruiner mad some good a forrest map forget the name though ...that stupid (NIN)CUM - P O O P 

[JpKool]

loial would u happen to have that map or anyone as a matter of fact??

[loial21]

at home a have all q2 maps and mods 15 gigs worth ...what do you want , i will find the name of that ruiner map <<< name changing panzy 

[JpKool]

lol
nice can u send me ur paintball 2 folder
rofl
dought it possible but its worth a try lol

[jitspoe]

Try http://sad.dhs.org/files/maps/?

[loial21]

what he said

[Greatzky]

I used to play pball about 2 years ago before it became a Standalone.
I agree that the game had changed a great deal. when i used to play i was part of Clan Pro which i'm sure doesn't even exist anymore. 
coming back to Pball i just figured taht the way everyone was playing was just a pure Evolution.  More people playing and more need to get better. In my eyes coming back to the game the Super fast jumping seems Ridiculously effective and these players also seem quite good at shooting... Able to kill with single shots.
Although I had never thought to play this way when i first played it seems to make sense. If you can get to the other person's base or middle area faster than your opponent that puts you in a "Strategic" advantage.
I agree with the jumping but i don't agree with the "Spraying".
Unfortunatley if there are no rules in the game then we just have to, as map makers, come out with maps that are going to be popular, but cut down on the "spraying" by providing either more entry points for a base or just a new Original Concept altogether. 
I also have to make a comment about Blitz.. I like that map. I am not the greatest player and I'm sure since me leaving the game and coming back with no skills that almost everyone is above me, but that map has a little bit of strategy involved and a lot of great Shooting skills.  If this game isn't about good shooting skills then why would you be trying to Shoot your opponent to win?
Although strategy does play a big part int heg ame and i agree that we need to find a way for more teamplay(which from all different games and mods seems impossible) I believe that on the public server level this will never be accomplished fully so we need to map/play around this.

Although wider-open maps bog down computer performance i believe that they make for much better game play.  You can't just throw a gren into a key area and take out a few people. It allows for more precisely timed grentosses and more basis on shooting skills.

Although(again) people don't seem to like xbmap i find it to be a well made map(from a map making perspective). it actually offers 3 ways into the base theoretically and offers a pretty decent amount of strategy for such an aggressive map.  The spraying while getting out of your base could even be resolved by another modification of the placement of the glass obstacles.

"In conclusion, Ladies and Jellyspoons" - Eddie Izzard,  There is an overall Evolution in the game and that is how it works with everything in life.  More people means more people with better ideas and better skills.  If the Jumping and speed players are winning then the game was unfortunately designed for them.
It's like Poker. With more people playing means that different strategies are winning.
2 years back, before Moneymaker won and helped start the online craze,  There were not as many loose players and more players that played by the book.  If you had it your bet.. if you didn't you could bluff and hope to get lucky.  With 80Million people in the US alone playing you see the total opposite and it's winning.
Players call with nothing and luck out.  Bet with anyting and luck out.  The evolution of poker is AGgression and Unfortunately the Evolution of Pball seems to be this speed game with ridiculous Jumps(many maps are made for these types of jumps and if we didn't want them included we shouldn't have based the standalone off the quake2 engine).

I Have in no way meant to offend anyone or insult anyone. I consier Jitspoe To be a genius as well as an awesome and talented person and everyone else that has helped this Game i give much respect to.
this was just a rant that i had to elaborate on after Watching my video card die and just spent $130 on a Powercolor Radeon 9800Se(will be softmodding to a 9800Pro) and i just had to vent.

If i sound like an idiot it's probably becuase i'm still new to the game since my return and dont know a few of the basic concepts/ethical values/ terms/ etc.

Good night everyone and have fun playing Pball. I think that's what it was intended for

-Greatzky
aim- oOGreatzkyOo
 

[loial21]

"If the Jumping and speed players are winning then the game was unfortunately designed for them."
Hoooooraaaaaaay!!!!! 
I salute you sir .
With all the smart people that post here why was that never even mentioned .....

he served us 
dont deny it

 

 

[Eiii]

Yay, someone who agrees with me. The maps aren't the only problem, but the GAME is a huge issue too.

And just a random idea i had-- capturable bases? Not flag cap places, but stragitic spawn groups.

[Greatzky]

as i stated before i agree that we need new concepts for maps, but also if you don't want jumping and speed to be an issue then making maps that have double jumps in them and flat groudn would need to be eliminated... The speed jumping will always be a part of the game, but the double jumping around maps who's purpose Probably wasn't for that Can be cut down.  Pbcup i'm guessing wasn't meant to have any double jumping or speed jumping parts to it, but you can jump the whole map. 
A solution to this woudl be to make maps that have no Obstacles " jump linked" meaning any obstacles that are close enough to leap from one to the other while picking up speed.

As i also stated the jumping around in maps and speed jumping are Part of the game and cna't be taken out. That's just how the quake2 engine was made.  It was the most unrealistic engine becuase of the jump tricks.
I love the quake2 engine and also have no problem with the jumpers in the game. My only problem is witht he sprayers, but unfortunately if you are dumb enough to walk into a spray then you are asking for it.. Although "spraying isn't strategic" that's what is done in real paintball becuase it proves highly effective.

AT work i had an idea for maybe an "Anti-spraying" addition to maps.  Since most maps put walls in front of bases(thus the spraying points) what about having very high windows int he walls of which shooting through them would serve no effect.  On the otehr hand a gren toss would prove highly effective becuase the gren would land right in the area of the sprayers givng you a chance to go in for a rush.  This idea is just a theory and sicne i don't have a computer right now(Vid card died) i can only think it would work.

It seems that the jumping is merely an evolution of the game.  the game has been played out to it's full potential right now and this jumping is the best way to play the game. LIke with Marvel vs Capcom2.  there is a glitch with Cable in the fact that youc an use his hyper Viper while jumping to create an Instant Hyper Move which Gets the highest priority over all other movies.  This is a glitch in the game(like quake2's jumping feature) and has been exploited tot he fullest.

Maybe you could mess with the Co2 or the paintballs or something.. Surely if you jumped a lot in real paintball(of which i've never played) something woudl happen to your gun.  I don't like the idea of having X amount of jumps start effecting your aim/paintball jam or whatever, but it's an option.

speed jumping has become an essential skill to learn. I am no good at it, but i still do it becuase it gets me to where i'm going quicker.  I also take advantaged of any features in a map that help with covering more distance at one time(double jumps and linked jumps etc).  Maps were designed to utilize many of these jumps and Sadly if you want to compete then you need to acquire these skills.

darn I talk to much.. hate not having a computer... I can't get out and pball.

-Greatzky

P.s. Like i've said.. i'm not a supporter of sprayers or jumpers, but i agree that jumping is the way that the game Seems to have been meant to be played right now.

[jitspoe]

I think I'd be lynched if I did anything to the jumping.

[loial21]

that is a topic of protest ..please start new one

jumping like a pro

there is alot of explaining regarding  jumps ....if you have not explained further this is a new topic on its own.....castle siege and so on (jumping out of fort_...jumping up in castle1 to the second flag area  (ejm not etc...exlplained further) and countless other maps that allow this art of "rocket jumps"  for exploit  and a lack of a better q2 phrase

.  I think your gonna get lynched anyway (j/k) if you don’t explain the art of jumping in your mod and or someone writes a faq on jumping in your game (which in all honesty is better left to  an expert in that ..blitz ....ejm (extreme jumping machines)  but u get my JIST no pun .....if not  most people who use/know this knowledge dont share and are not caring in your game..period no arguments

needs LGM edu opon thy masses

[Eiii]

Personally, I think jumping is fine. It just lets the player move faster, and be slightly more hard to hit, which is important in a one-shot kill game.

[loial21]

tell me how to jump out of fort

fair is fair

[jitspoe]

spacebar?  I dunno, what do you have bound to +moveup?

[Xile]

The problem is.. any substantial gameplay changes jit makes, he gets r-a-p-e-d for it. So why bother?

[Eiii]

because it may make the game better.

[loial21]

for who ?