Author Topic: New Model Format (Read 14430 times)

jitspoe · « **on:** April 20, 2005, 09:44:04 PM »

I'm planning on implementing a new model format for Paintball2. I've convinced myself that SKM is the way to go for now. It's a skeletal model format which will allow us to do some nice skeletal animation on the players, meaning:
- no wobbly verts.
- blended animations (top half could be firing, bottom running).
- Tagged bones will allow us to place different weapons in players hands and other similar things.
- Higher polygon counts without having a lot of memory use for the animations (of course we'll use LOD's so low end systems won't crap themselves).
- Potential to do silly things like ragdoll physics.

For more information about SKM, you can view the sourceforge.net projects page for qfusion: http://sourceforge.net/projects/l33t

Also, a few threads on quakesrc.org have some information about it:
http://www.quakesrc.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4731&highlight=skm
http://www.quakesrc.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4916&highlight=skm

Eiii · « **Reply #1 on:** April 21, 2005, 02:50:32 AM »

Perhaps you should have the models separated into parts that can be animated separatly. For example, the lower body for moving/crouching, and an upper body with multiple positions for different guns. However, since many of the guns are the same, you might need one for a group of similar guns.

jitspoe · « **Reply #2 on:** April 21, 2005, 10:48:11 AM »

The whole point of skeletal animation is that you DON'T have to have segmented models (what Quake3 has).

Eiii · « **Reply #3 on:** April 21, 2005, 04:40:40 PM »

Does that mean you can animate different bones separatly at the same time? I though it was just a way to displace many verticies at a time.

loial21 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 21, 2005, 04:54:01 PM »

Leaning and prone positions

Most players that i have got to play DP voiced you their displeasure about not being able to lean or go prone.

Again I dont know much about what you doing just what would be needed to take this game to new levels of fun

Dirty_Taco · « **Reply #5 on:** April 21, 2005, 07:49:54 PM »

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loial21 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 21, 2005, 11:04:02 PM »

So what do u want?

A q2 instagig hyperblaster game with nothing but the faster jumping/reflex team to win all maps?

My apology for the above comment first, but tis true.

You (tacosmell)and others have complained in the past about spray/pray warfare and your disdain about such strategy and maps .

Now as one of the top rank(ing) complainers (about spray and pray) your offering a complaint and not a solution. I expect more from you than that.

I am offering an alternative by introducing a not so new and needed concept to jitspoe's beautiful game, its called teamwork.

My second apology for the previous comment.

Lastly I don't profess to know everything, but I know what fun is and what other people have voiced besides some "leet cheats" thats u er33t bob/smoke/princess

( j/k ).

Eiii · « **Reply #7 on:** April 22, 2005, 12:43:21 AM »

We don't need leaning at all. It, if ANYTHING, allows for more spray. Except, you're almost invunerable to other shots. Strategy? Not any more than camping in a spot and spraying.
Prone... no. Too slow. LIke DT said, this is a fast paced game, and prone is too slow a movement method. Anyway, it gives you NO advantage. You're lower. People have a little harder time seeing you. What could that be used for? SPRAYING! Again.

jitspoe · « **Reply #8 on:** April 22, 2005, 02:25:40 PM »

While it would be possible to implement leaning with the new model format, the hit boxes are the real issue. They can only be axis-aligned rectangles. If somebody leans out, I could expand the hit box, but... what's the point of leaning then? You might as well step fully out from behind a bunker.

Prone would be difficult to pull off well, because of things like jumping on top of narrow bunkers -- could you imagine somebody going prone on one of those? Heh, that would look really weird.

loial21 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 22, 2005, 06:03:06 PM »

just a suggestion

prone makes your criticasl harder to hit eeeei, but since this is one shot ur out ...

"what's the point of leaning then? You might as well step fully out from behind a bunker."

assuming someone is shooting at you at that point. Unitil that happens its a great camper tool

S8NSSON · « **Reply #10 on:** April 24, 2005, 12:16:03 AM »

Ok a lean would basically equal stepping out becasue of the whole hitbox issue, but what lean would offer is a momentary action (lean out while button held, snap back on release). So instead of stepping out and back really fast to imitate a "snap shoot" meneuver to could press lean, fire, release to do a "snap shooting" meneuver (much easier i think). Maybe a "strafe_spring" setting that would do this action with your strafe keys when toggled. Maybe a default snap distance with a min and max so people could adjust it to thier desired feel.

If the above was implimented I wouldn't even bother with a lean position or animation on the character.

IronFist · « **Reply #11 on:** April 24, 2005, 08:58:57 AM »

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loial21 · « **Reply #12 on:** April 25, 2005, 04:36:43 PM »

Thank you s8n for making my point for me I am terribly inarticulate. Btw were your suggestion....

Quote

If the above was implemented I wouldn't even bother with a lean position or animation on the character

Which above suggestion were you referring to?

Like a lean left / lean right binds, the first lean key you strike would lean you in the desired direction then release the lean key to toggle back to strait.

Btw what is the difference between crouching and what s8n suggested jitspoe? Other than one is crouching and one is leaning.

Ironfist knows a good idea when he sees it.

*edit dang I forgot to ask does crouching involve animation?

jitspoe · « **Reply #13 on:** April 25, 2005, 05:02:50 PM »

Er, what do you mean? One is leaning and one is crouching... should something else be different?

And yes, crouching involves animation. How else would you make the player appear crouched?

loial21 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 25, 2005, 05:26:59 PM »

Sorry my fault.

What I mean is there should be no reason why lean can not be implimented

The crouch is allowed so why not lean?

Quote

How else would you make the player appear crouched?

I asked this because of s8n statement. My fear is if there is no animation involved how the would you see the Model lean or crouch?

Thanks Bud

S8NSSON · « **Reply #15 on:** April 25, 2005, 06:30:02 PM »

you wouldn't need a "lean" animation...to the other player he/she would see the whole player shift the predetermined units in the direction they pressed. Upon releasing the "lean" key the character would "shift" back the predetermined units.

It would be such a small shift that it would not look to wierd i don't think.

Yes, there would be a LEFT & RIGHT momentary lean key

IronFist · « **Reply #16 on:** April 25, 2005, 07:44:32 PM »

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jitspoe · « **Reply #17 on:** April 25, 2005, 07:58:18 PM »

That wouldn't waste bandwidth as all the wait commands are done client side. Only problem is, I don't think you can fire while it's waiting.

loial21 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 25, 2005, 09:24:55 PM »

Thanks for the attention in this matter.

It would and does enhance game plame.

S8NSSON · « **Reply #19 on:** April 26, 2005, 06:49:52 AM »

yeah...I also think it would be a nice feature. Easily implimented too...err....maybe.

I'm thinking that normal movement existing in unison with this feature could be a little tricky (I don't know the code so I can only imagine. Leaning would have to be independant of all normal movement or else you could develope some pretty interesting bugs.