So, I can't login or post on the forums.

[Smokey]

Hi so unban y2j.

I used a control script in jigs mirc to get his authserv pass, which he is an effing retard and uses the same password for everything so i gave his password out and encouraged everyone to be naughty.


Ban me baby.

[coLa]

naughty boys deserve naughty things

[Smokey]

naughty boys deserve naughty things

thats what she said.

[Moe_Lester]

I guess ij didnt have to show any proof now did we.

[jitspoe]

Why is it unacceptable to to change the rule enforcement as situations demand it?  Do you really think I should just let things like this slide with no consequence?  Yes, users need to be responsible for their passwords, but if one does slip out, that doesn't give other people the right to go and use it.  If you were to use somebody's credit card or bank information, I'm fairly certain there are some pretty significant legal ramifications.  Read the last sentence of the agreement Bain posted.  I could expand on that, perhaps, but there are things that do far more damage than cheating, and I will ban for them.

Just to put things in perspective, I would have to ban hundreds of players just to break even with the amount of cash I've invested in this game -- money from my own pocket.  That doesn't even begin to cover time.  And that's assuming they'd all pay to get their bans lifted immediately, which they wouldn't.  In fact, nobody has paid to get a ban lifted.  The concept for this was introduced by Warhead (since he had an exceptionally long ban due to repeat offenses and evasions) and put forth to the community to debate.  Most people thought it was a good idea, but I have yet to have any banned players go through with it.  To suggest that I would use an underhanded tactic like banning players for trivial things in order to make some quick cash is, frankly, an insult.  I think you know this.

Contrary to popular belief, this is not a free game.  No software is free.  It's just a question of who pays for it.  I've had to pay for a huge portion of it, both from my wallet and with my time, so that you don't have to.  Yet somehow I've become too powerful?  I shouldn't be allowed to control who can and can't use the resources I've created and paid for?  I'm not opposed to the idea of a board, but what would be the criteria for its members?  It might be nice to have a group of people to help determine who else was involved in this and what appropriate punishments should be.

In reality, I don't have enough time to mess around with all this.  I've wasted far too much time on this issue already.  I'm banning Smokey as well, since he just admitted to being responsible for obtaining and distributing Jigsaw's password.

As for Y2J, he still stays banned.  Even if he didn't do anything to Jigsaw's account, it wasn't his, and he shouldn't have been nosing around in it (which he admitted to doing).  Even with a closer inspection of the logs, I can't come to any different conclusions:

2007-07-24 22:39:47 - Web login from Jigsaw's ip
...
Several game logins from jigsaw, no web logins.
...
2007-07-25 21:39:49 - Game login from Jigsaw's ip
2007-07-26 00:21:04 - Web login from 147.253.174.5 (Y2J's IP)
2007-07-26 00:39:01 - Jigsaw posts that he can't log in
2007-07-26 12:48:23 - Jigsaw's account gets accepted into aB.
2007-07-26 19:12:42 - I reset Jigsaw's password.
2007-07-26 19:23:37 - Web login from Jigsaw's ip
2007-07-26 20:24:58 - Web login form Jigsaw's ip

Not only was Y2J's ip the only one not matching Jigsaw's hostmask, but the last web login was on the 24th.  Also, Y2J's IP was the last to log into Jigsaw's forum account before it became inaccessible.

I don't know why I bother explaining myself.  I really shouldn't have to.  If you have a problem with my "totalitarian control", feel free to find another game to play.

[Dirty_Taco]

Post removed

[Cobo]

Hm, why dont you post that with your actual account, skater?

Also, I have yet failed to see jitspoe push Y2J into paying him.

[Blitz]

If you have a problem with my "totalitarian control", feel free to find another game to play.

It's because, ever since jitspoe decided to step up (which, by the way, I commend); and be the sole contributor to the continued development of this game (why?), he has established that this is now HIS game under his complete control, he will do whatever he feels necessary, and everyone now has the LUXUARY he gives us of letting us play it.

Thanks for this opportunity, jitspoe.

Regarding underhanded use of banlists for profit: I did not suggest that you are doing this, merely acknowledged the possibility and problem that rests therein.

[Spook]

Blitz, i am surprised you went with the more honorable way of handling this. It's nice to see.

If you have a problem with my "totalitarian control", feel free to find another game to play.

and that is the way it should be. it is, in fact, a free game with one person who actively improves it (not including y00tz and zorch and the like) I also feel jitspoe should start giving atleast 16 day global bans for people who continue to disrupt the games fun environment

[jitspoe]

So someone else admits to it, and Y2J is still banned. Jitspoe, you provide no proof Y2J changed anything, you just come to a conclusion, and who knows if anyone else really logged in other then Y2J, you wouldn't show it at this point, because it's already embarrassing enough for you that he didn't hack him like you thought. It also seems ridiculous that you tell him he deserves no explanation? I think anyone who is proven to be innocent of what you believe to be the case, at the most you have an assumption of what happened, no hard facts, deserves some type of explication why they are being banned.

This is the real issue DFDP should be evaluating. Jitspoe is the sole person in charge of these bans, he can ban whoever he wants, and make up anything he wants in reality. If someone who's close to him is caught hacking, he's not going to post it on here, but if someone proves him wrong, or irks him, look what happens. And the only way for Y2J to get off is to pay money now? When not one thing has been proven against him, and if anything, how is what he did equally as bad as wallhacking? There should be a system of checks and balances in place amongst the ban list, for specific occasions like this, where there is a clear challenge, and no real proof against the person.

And on top of that check out the server section and you'll see yet another complain against the GT Admins...

Power hungry individuals that run the banlist and run the servers are what are ruining this game the most. Jitspoe won't even explain himself to Y2J, despite someone coming forth about the hacking, and having no proof that anything was changed. It wasn't his account, so what, his password was out for 2 days, and jigsaw had ample time to change it. At that point you reach the point of stupidity in any case, and no attempt to mitigate his damages means he suffers the consequences. He knew for a day, if not 2, before hand that his pw was leaked to the public, and did nothing. Anything that happens as a result is his problem.

And jitspoe, it's not an insult for anyone to suggest you're attempting to make quick cash off a ban when you won't explain yourself, especially when the consequence doesn't fit the crime.

He told Y2J if he wanted to be unbanned to cough up the cash, when asked about the ban after Smokey admitted he hacked him. (Since jitspoe refused to give Y2J a good reason, proof, and any type of explination. All jitspoe can mange to say to Y2J is <jitspoe> but consider yourself lucky I didn't do a perm ban which I was tempted to do / AND <jitspoe> I don't owe you an explination.   What a real class act?)
And I'm not skater.

I've given my explanation.  You just refuse to accept what you did was wrong.  I never accused you of "hacking" him.  How you got the password is irrelevant.  You were the only one to log into his account during the time in question.  Therefore, anything that happened to the account during that period was your doing.  Plain and simple.  That's about as hard as facts can get.

For somebody all on his high horse about getting facts straight, you really need to work on yours.  Not once did I ever even suggest that you "cough up" cash.  Frankly, I wouldn't have accepted it in this case (not that I worried you would offer).  What you did was worse than some new player running around with a wallhack on a pub server and still failing to achieve a positive k/d ratio in my book, and really deserved a more severe punishment (or consequence to fit the crime).  I opted to be more lenient, though, and go with the standard ban time since this kind of thing hadn't really been dealt with before (and hopefully won't have to be dealt with again after this example).  Also, if you're going to quote me, quote what I actually said, not just your interpretation of it.  And nice 3rd person, Y2Zonday.

Just so we're all clear, I've updated the rules to account for this specific type of case: http://dplogin.com/index.php?action=createaccount .  Logging into another user's account is not allowed.  Don't do it.

[Cobo]

And nice 3rd person, Y2Zonday.

XD
I thought it was skater since he changed his name to that on IRC.

[Blitz]

What you did was worse than some new player running around with a wallhack...

I completely disagree with this, but I can see how wallhacking  would be less of an issue when you don't actually play the game.

[jitspoe]

I completely disagree with this, but I can see how wallhacking  would be less of an issue when you don't actually play the game.

Oh, come off it.  I was playing last night.  I've got almost a hundred hours logged on xfire, which, sure, isn't nearly as much as some of the kids who don't have to go to work or have lots of other responsibilities and can play all the time, but it's a lot more than most games I play.  Plus if I played all the time, I wouldn't get any development done.

I'm by no means condoning wallhacking, but merely pointing out the fact that probably half of the cheaters caught are just below average pub players who are still sub-average with cheats and were it not for the cheat detection, most players probably wouldn't even notice them.  Little to no harm is done in these cases, whereas Y2J's activities actually interfered with somebody's ability to use his account, not to mention wasted a bunch of my time, and who knows what kind of private information he may have read while he was poking around (since he logged into the forum account as well).

[Blitz]

So.. the better you are at the game, the worse it is for the community when you cheat...?

[magalhaes]

Drop it
When are the world series of paintball starting?

[lekky]

So.. the better you are at the game, the worse it is for the community when you cheat...?

Take my following example.

One player has been playing the game for 5 years, has been part of the recognisable community for a lengthy period of time, has been a member of a respected clan for 4 years and leader for 3. Now, there is another player, started playing the game 2 weeks ago has only ever graced public servers and has yet to make his mind up on whether he likes the game.

Now then, both of these players go and download some hack and use it whilst playing this game. The player that has been playing the game for 5 years has a much greater impact upon the community than the player who has played for only 2 weeks. This is a no-brainer.

However, your comment doesn't seem to have been thought through very well, and it also seems you haven't really read or perhaps understood Jitspoe's post. Try reading it through one more time then compose a reply showing that yes, you have read the thread you are replying to

[Blitz]

The player that has been playing the game for 5 years has a much greater impact upon the community than the player who has played for only 2 weeks.

Clearly this player has a much bigger impact on the community as a whole, whether or not they cheat. That _IS_ a no-brainer indeed. However, to quantify rule enforcement subjectively based on the violator is a ridiculous way to enforce rules.

Rules and laws are suppose to be set, clearly defined, and UNIFORMLY enforced.

If I go out and murder a homeless person who has no living family, this clearly effects less people than if I murder Al Gore. Does this mean I'll just spend a few nights in jail for the former? Wait a second, bad example.

[y00tz]

If I go out and murder a homeless person who has no living family, this clearly effects less people than if I murder Al Gore. Does this mean I'll just spend a few nights in jail for the former? Wait a second, bad example.

This is a good example.  Al Gore is widely known, he's in the spotlight a lot.  Secret service men will be guarding him for the next 4 years, as spelled out in the constitution.  There will be more witness and more investigating done in this theoretical crime because of his position and popularity.  A homeless person, much like a newbie, doesn't have a spotlight on them, probably won't be missed and as a result you probably won't be a blip on anyone's radar.  In the event you are caught, powerful senators and friends of the homeless man aren't going to come to his defense and seek justice on his behalf.

John Hinckley attempted to assassinate President Reagen.  He has spent the rest of his life in a psych ward under heavy surveillance with only 3 unsupervised releases.  (Privileges for the releases have since been revoked.)

A friend of my brother-in-laws was shot and KILLED in Chicago as part of a carjacking gone wrong.  The suspect plead the same as Hinckley, not guilty by reason of insanity.   He was ALSO found not guilty.  The unfortunate part is that unlike Hinckley, this guy who killed an unknown person is walking on the streets after only 7 years in a psych ward.

Even though DP isn't anything like real-life, your argument is still debunked.

[FlaMe]

sorry about your friend y00tz =/ and good reasoning...
 
...but did you just compare homeless people to noobs ? lmfao

[Blitz]

A friend of my brother-in-laws was shot and KILLED in Chicago as part of a carjacking gone wrong.  The suspect plead the same as Hinckley, not guilty by reason of insanity.   He was ALSO found not guilty.  The unfortunate part is that unlike Hinckley, this guy who killed an unknown person is walking on the streets after only 7 years in a psych ward.

But don't you think that is unfair and corrupt, and that people theoretically SHOULD be punished the same for doing the same thing?