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IronFist

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« on: May 02, 2005, 05:01:28 PM »
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Eiii

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Re: omfg I need to make a map already
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2005, 05:42:34 PM »
That looks like a crowded map. I suggest you make it bigger, and go around some curves.
Like this.

____________
|              |      |
|        |     |      |
|        |     |      |
|____|______|

Beautiful.

IronFist

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« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2005, 09:04:46 PM »
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S8NSSON

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Re: omfg I need to make a map already
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2005, 10:29:11 AM »
That's ALOT of r_speeds for such a small area...not good man :(

Have a read:
http://www.logictechnologies.com/keith/tutorial/brushx.html

especially check out the link at the end.

Dirty_Taco

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« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2005, 05:48:23 PM »
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IronFist

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« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2005, 06:22:10 PM »
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Donk

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DirtyTaco is like the most active NAMBLA member, ever. Even more than fornal.

S8NSSON

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The map looks nifty.
Coming from one direction the r_speeds are not that bad, but turn around and they are very high as you cross the bridge.

Although the map is pretty I think it's a little chaotic. What apears to be a good ammount of space to move around in is drastically reduced by impassable obstacles (boxes and what not). I'm thinking the flag is almost immpossible to siege with any descent team guarding it.

I noclipped around and inspected the structure closely. I found alot of areas that are assisting in your r_speeds being amplified dramatically. Some of these areas are artistic and deserve a bit of lieniency, but some really should be fixed.

Lemme post some sshots (well how about 10 :)):

While you wait for these 10 sshots to load lemme say that I find your post title insulting ("DANGER: HIGH-POLY MAP FOR THE LEET"). Are you saying that because some people strive to keep r_speeds down, or prefer to play maps that have been built with r_speeds in mind, that they are deLEET (or void of LEETness)?

You'll have to forgive me. I have been bombarded with average map designs lately that are built using very poor mapping techniques. What bothers me about this map is that it is very nice looking, but still, again, there are those little technical issues that, if fixed, could make this map uberleet.

I know I ramble on for not, and will probably face a slew of nasty posts for this post, but I would just like to see mappers strive for total perfection. Maybe I have no room to talk, but you can bet your ass that I try my darnedest (is that a word?) to make whatever crappy design i've come up with as structurely perfect as I can.

Ok...at least a few of the screenshots should be loaded by now.
Have a look at some of the issues I found in this map. These areas, and there are many more, assist in elevating the r_speeds of this map. Again, some are artistic in nature, and could be left alone, but others should be fixed. The question is: Is the mapper willing to go that extra mile?

Jitspoe would be a good person to critique this map. He is always brutally honest with my maps (as much as I hate it).

later:
S8N











Dirty_Taco

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« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2005, 10:31:31 AM »
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Dirty_Taco

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« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2005, 11:18:13 AM »
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« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 01:18:23 AM by Dirty_Taco »

IronFist

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« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2005, 08:09:06 PM »
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Dirty_Taco

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« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2005, 10:49:11 PM »
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« Last Edit: July 26, 2010, 01:18:20 AM by Dirty_Taco »

jitspoe

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Ouch.  No offense but as has previously been pointed out, the brushwork is a mess.

Some other things:
- The train is so slow, by the time you wait for it and ride to the base, the timelimit is up.
- Even with the train and the bridge, there's really only one path in -- it's all the same open area.  That may work for 1v1 or 2v2, but once you get more people in there to put up a solid wall of spray, it's going to suck.
- Instead of having hoards of the same weapon piled up in one area, save the polygons/bandwidth and just spawn people with weapons.
- Instead of using lava for things like the electric fence, use trigger_hurt.  Keep in mind that the nodraw flag does not work in vanilla Quake2 (which sadly some people still use).  Also, the caustics still appear, and that just looks weird.
- Instead of modelling things like the lightning bolt out of brushes, create a texture.  And in the event that you need to do brushwork like that, actually embed the brushes into the face so you won't have all those edge polygons adding to your wpoly count.
- Keep a consistent theme.  Just because there's 200+ textures doesn't mean you have to use them all. :)  The different rock and grass textures all together don't look right.  Use one rock texture and one grass texture.
- Don't use textures for things they shouldn't be used on... the barrel texture for water just looks... very wrong.
- Blue can't capture the flag.  Do you have a teamnumber set on the base?
- There are lots of spots you can get cornered in.  For example, to the right of the garage, you can jump over the boxes, but once you're back there, you can't get back out.  Also, if you jump out of the base near the flag while defending, you can't get back into the base without killing yourself.

As for detail brushes.  Don't used them unless you have to.  If your map is taking a long time to vis, then it's probably due to the design and it should be reworked.  And those screenshots you posted are both exactly the same.  To display the triangle outlines, use: deathmatch 0; map yourmap; gl_showtris 1.  You might also have to set gl_ext_multitexture 0 and vid_restart, but I think I fixed it so you didn't have to do that anymore.

Edit: Oh, and one more thing.  Those custom textures you're using.  Can they be freely released under the GPL?  Also, the fence texture: you should make one side of it nodraw so you're not getting double.  I'm also trying to figure out a way to get lightmaps on transparent surfaces.  Might want to wait until I get that figured out before releasing.  Glow-in-the-dark fences look weird. :)

Edit2:
- Use clip brushes!  You have lots of things sticking out 1 or 2 units that you can get "stuck" on, especially on the fences.  Clip that stuff! :)
- This is kind of a small one, but the light in the garage is slightly misaligned... looks like the brush is too small, actually.  I always wonder how people end up with stuff like that.  Just use a 32unit grid, make the light, and you're golden.  Most you'll have to do is rotate 90 degrees.  Also, the jail bars texture for the side of the light is rather odd.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2005, 11:25:19 PM by jitspoe »

IronFist

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« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2005, 05:39:15 PM »
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« Last Edit: July 25, 2010, 11:36:06 PM by IronFist »

jitspoe

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Hmm, not too sure about the grass on the top of the walls.  Also, I'd go with more dusk-like lighting as was in the first screenshots.  Just out of curiosity, what is the building with the custom texture supposed to be made out of?  Doesn't look like anything I've ever seen. :)  I might also suggest the use of a different grass texture -- one that doesn't look so lush and healthy -- kind of looks funny with the desert-like canyon rocks.  Also, grass doesn't grow too well underwater. ;)

IronFist

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« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2005, 07:31:53 PM »
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Dirty_Taco

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« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2005, 11:15:07 AM »
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IronFist

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« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2005, 04:04:02 PM »
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IronFist

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« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2005, 03:33:33 PM »
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jitspoe

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Looks cool, but what's with the blue glow?