My new map, yet to be named,... Very beta stage

[Garrett]

By, Garrett / DevilDowg
First link is the Community Texture pack
Second link is the map.

I know there are a lot of lights missing in the top flood and the bottom floor.  I just wanted to show the very beta stage of the map.   I am going to add more lights, more obsticals and make it a more all round very map.  I will also use the hint brush to cut down the r_speeds so they are not so high. 
Leave some construtive crit. and let me know how you like it.  The next beta will be up hopeful with all the lights and hint brushes.

Garrett

[Garrett]

Darn attacments won't load.

[cusoman]

alright well i played thru your map. i think its ok for a first try but there are some major points i would like you to know.i say all of this constructively and am not trying to be mean
1. the entire underground needs to be lit.
2.blue should spawn at blue base, red at red base.
3.the map is way to wide open. that is why it took so long to compile. you need more objects in there. i suggest making the ceiling much lower and adding barrels and boxes in place to add some playability.
4.ladders dont work 
5.there are some upper hallways that you cant get to in game, pls make a way to get there.
if you fix these things i could see this map becoming good. keep on mapping and i cant wait to see your beta 2.

p.s. a good name for your map would be woodwork because its full of wood. make some more objects and you have yourself a map.
most first maps are not good in the first beta, but this one is ok and has the potential to be fun. good luck mapping.
-Cusoman

[jitspoe]

You need to do a bit more work before you release a beta:
- Give the map a name (both a filename and a message in the worldspawn).
- Ladders can't be climbed
- Use the grid!  Some of your lights and things are about 1 unit off.
- Avoid massive, open areas.
- Lots of entities need to be fixed.

[Garrett]

To DO List:
Finish lights
Fix spawn lights
Finish ladders
Hint brushes for r_speeds
Fix player spawns
Name (haha)

The next To DO List:
Obstacles
Jail working
If possible lower ceiling

The first To Do List should be done by tonight

[cusoman]

good. having a plan always helps maps get finished faster. good luck with those "to-dos"

[Garrett]

Beta two.
Fixed:
-Player spawns
-Spawn lights
-Finished the ladders
-Hint brushes (didn't seem to do much)
-Named it Nameless until I get a name
-Finished lighting the whole place

A few questions
How do I get the player to spawn with the 20oz co2 all ready engaged?
Why are the hint blushes not cutting the r_speeds done?

Beta 3 will make the rooms more cluttered with obsticals and the jail will work. 

PS i made the jail doors float like that so you guys knew the jail was there.

[cusoman]

well it looks better. cant wait to see it with smaller rooms/lower ceiling and with objects. In my pic one there is a hallway that is immpossible to get to. pls make it possible to get there. to have them start with c02 add the things:
"giveco2" "40oz"
"loadedco2" "20oz"
those keys and values are what i spawn all my maps with.
good luck on beta 3!!

[Garrett]

Once I get the objects in, you will be able to jump in there.  No worries, the new beta should be out but next week.  School is starting so I need to start concentrating on that too, sadly.

[Chef-Killer]

Why are the hint blushes not cutting the r_speeds done?

You have to place them correct. They must make sence. If there is a realy open part (and there are a lot in this map), hint brushes couldn't work if they placed through this open parts. They should help at the compile to partitien the map useful, so place them useful.

I know, i explained it very bad, but you can read this post of jitspoe.

Hint brushes won't magically reduce your polygon count, but they can help if you know how to use them.  The key things are:

- Avoid open areas.
- Don't make too much detail visible at once.

They both go together, to a degree.  If you have an open area with lots of detail, it's all going to be visible at once.  In addition to that, quake2 compilers break the map up at certain intervals, so even if you have a plain room with no detail, a small room will have fewer polygons than a large room, because the large room will be broken up into smaller polygons (this was necessary for the software renderer, I think).  If you need large areas, you can reduce the chopping by scaling the textures up.  If you have a big room 4x's the size of a smaller room and scale the textures up 4x's as big, the polygon breakup will be the same.

Reducing detail in a given area is a whole different beast.  It's really best to sketch out a design of your map and plan different areas.  You want to make each area of the map have as little possible visible to other areas.  One method for this is called "snaking", which you can see in brainstorm.bsp -- it looks like a large, outdoor area, but only small sections are visible at any given time.  Another method is the big 'ol "vis blockers" seen in the battle maps.  I don't care for these much, unless you can make them look natural.  Finally, there's the simple "rooms with doors" approach.  And of course, any mixing and matching of the methods.  Whatever you do, make sure you offer plenty of routes into and out of the bases to keep the gameplay interesting.

[Garrett]

Thanks chef and now I'm brainstorming some more ideas, thanks for the help and post.

[Garrett]

I am ready to lower the ceiling and need to figure out the amount I am going to lower it.  Could you possible give me and idea of how much you think would be good to lower the ceiling. 

Do you wanna be able to jump through the tunnel/ hallway or do you want to make it into the hallway or I could figure something else out.    Let me know.  I might have an idea that will only lower the hallway's ceiling a little bit but keep it able to strafe jump in and throu but lower the ceiling outside and GREAT DEAL.

This is what a beta is for I guess.  Testing ideas and finding out what looks and plays the best.

[cusoman]

I would say lower everything. make the ceiling about 1/2 - 3/4 as tall as it is now, and shrink everything proportionately. This will make the map seem more playable and less ominous. Also the compile will be much shorter!!! I think to get to the hallway/tunnel thing there needs to be an easy route there. I also noticed you have an attic of some sort. Make it quicker to get to the attic so that it can be used as an alternate route to get to enemies base. good luck making any of the above changes, but remember its your map so you could completely ignore everything i said. Its your vision your making.

[Apocalypse]

Here's what I suggest you do (yes I know some of this has been said but oh well)
1. Scale down the whole thing.
2.Put some lights down in the basement it awfully dark down there and I have to walk backwards to see what direction I'm going in.
3.Maybe crowd it up a little with some crates and or barrels.
4.Ladders don't work.
5.Might want to add some flags in there.
Hope that helped and good luck with beta 2.

[cusoman]

lolz Apoc beta 2 is out!!!! Look a few posts up to see the nameless_b2.zip file Alot of what you said he fixed in beta 2 as well.

[Apocalypse]

Woops I missed that post

[Garrett]

Scaling the WHOLE map down will take for ever.  Is there and quicker ways?

[Garrett]

*edit*
Holy carp, forget the last thing.  I restarted from scratch and its looking a lot nicer.  Making it a lot more to scale and its looking good.  I scraped the basement and am making the tunnel and hallways a lot nicer looking and making it all round easier to play and with a lower ceiling, I mapped all most the old map again, in about an hour.  New beta coming most likely tomorrow or Thursday.  Thanks for helping me open my eyes to how bad that old map looked.

[cusoman]

First maps usually look bad. Its great that u recognized your own maps flaws and completely remade it so that now its good quality sized. I cant wait to see the new, better looking version, with all the old problems fixed! Good Luck.
oh and If u ever need help mapping, or a section of something doesn't look right, just ask. I will help you out.

[Garrett]

Thanks man. 
I should get the next beta out hopefully tonight.