Does a map need a theme?

[m7feettall]

This conversation has been going on in the cavern map thread, but figured I would actually make it into its own thread.

Do maps need a theme? What makes a good map?

By theme I mean an intentional attempt by the map creator to place the map in an historical or geographical setting, such as Victorian England, a middle age castle, a village in vietnam, a saloon in the old west, a modern day night club, a cave, a waterfall, etc.  In other words while many dp maps  are just barriers or fields or some obstacles, theme maps attempt to actually create an atmosphere of a different place or exotic setting.

[Eiii]

A theme isn't needed at all. I can't think of many maps that have themes as specific as the ones you list.

Consistent textures will do fine.

[nightryder]

it shouldnt be random. like part of the map is sand and some is ice and some is city and some is caves. try to keep map consistent so that it makes sense.

[m7feettall]

Personally I find that some (not all) theme maps tend to focus so much on the setting that game play is diminished.

And if you look at some of the more popular maps they have no discernable theme:

Theme-free maps
airtime 1,2,3
shaz 22, 33
propaint1
jump
pbcup_renoir
razzle
xbmap1
barrels
Blitz
back2back
midnight2


Themed maps:
castle1
ub_rooftop
rome
siegecastle
darkages
pball_shreds1
ub-cliff
grave
carpathian (?)


Among those without at theme are a few of the most played, most enjoyed maps. Yes they probably get overdone. But when they come up on a server people rush to play them.  They have good gameplay.

Meanwhile, some of the best looking maps are rarely played (zsiege and kung-fu come to mind, though kung-fu is new, so may catch on).

It is great if a map has solid game-play and a good looking theme. But it appears a good theme is not a requirement for a good, well liked map.

There also appears to be a disconnect between what mappers view as a good map and what actually gets played. Mappers naturally value creativity and themes. They give opportunity for detailed, nice looking final products. But in the server it is game play AND some simplicity (for the noobs) that bring people to the map.

I realize some don't want to play an "airtime clone" (used in another thread). But frankly I DO want to play an airtime clone, if it actually has fun game play. I don't care what it looks like or whether it has  a theme.

Has too much emphasis been put on themes?

[m7feettall]

it shouldnt be random. like part of the map is sand and some is ice and some is city and some is caves. try to keep map consistent so that it makes sense.

Agreed on this point.

[Eiii]

I wouldn't say ub_cliff has any more 'theme' than razzle.

I don't think any emphasis has been put on themes as you mean it. Mappers make maps with themes, but there aren't really people requesting them.

[Spook]

I prefer to make maps with themes so i have images and ideas in my head, i'm just not a good enough mapper to properly portray those themes yet. (although snowdemise was a themeless map )

[blaa]

 wtf, i though

Consistent textures will do fine.

is a theme? :S. LOl, and how to you say that carpathian is more themed than renoir remake.

[Apocalypse]

I prefer to make maps with themes so i have images and ideas in my head, i'm just not a good enough mapper to properly portray those themes yet. (although snowdemise was a themeless map )

Same.

wtf, i though  is a theme? :S. LOl, and how to you say that carpathian is more themed than renoir remake.

Carpathian is supposed to be in the old carpathian mountains (they used to call some mountain range that don't know which) unless DT somehow randomly ended up getting the exact same name as that.

[lekky]

This conversation has been going on in the cavern map thread, but figured I would actually make it into its own thread.

I think the point in that thread was that if a theme is to be used, it should be used well! Which at the time that maps theme was not

[m7feettall]

I think the point in that thread was that if a theme is to be used, it should be used well! Which at the time that maps theme was not

Now that I can agree with.  The original map idea did not have a theme. The theme came about partly due to some of the decisions while making the back door stones, etc.

Therefore in that particular case, while some were urging him to expand it into a full theme map, I guess I would just redo the textures, make it without a theme, and then do a theme map from the ground up if that is his desire.

As for me, though I designed the basic idea I don't mind either way which one Rept does. I just think it is way too much work to go back and add in thematic elements when they are not necessary to that particular map.

Of course, I don't care how the lights look either, but maybe I am not picky enough.

[jitspoe]

Airtime is themed.  As the name suggests, it's about getting air, and thus all the ramps.  It's not themed after a specific real-life setting, but it is oriented around a specific concept and has a fairly consistent texture scheme going on.  Blitz was modeled after a real life paintball field, if I recall correctly, so it is themed around a particular setting (though it was executed poorly and I hate the map with a passion, so it's not really supporting the theme cause).  Razzle has a bit of a castle theme going on.  Barrels was themed after the infamous "crates" map, though that might be a bit of a stretch - same for Midnight 2 being themed after inverting the original midnight (and also sporting a much more consistent texture theme than the first midnight).

Really, though, when you look at it - I don't see much correlation between popularity, quality and theme.  I think what's really important is execution.  Nothing stops a mapper from making a map that both looks good, has a theme, AND plays well.  They just may have to spend a little more time to work it all out.  That's why I've been pushing beta releases with public play testing.

[magalhaes]

same for Midnight 2 being themed after inverting the original midnight (and also sporting a much more consistent texture theme than the first midnight).

Forgot to mention that you killed the gameplay completely