Author Topic: Clan Tags  (Read 7019 times)

JpKool

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Re: Admins
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2007, 08:54:48 PM »
Alrighty thanks but i wont be around then so yea could somoene ask him if they see him thanks.

y00tz

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Re: Admins
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2007, 08:56:49 PM »
It's on the forum, it's no going anywhere.. most likely.  He'll see it, plus I know you've PMed him and you've PMed me as well to PM him... he'll get the message :D

jitspoe

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Re: Clan Tags
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2007, 07:01:42 PM »
I'm discussing it with the committee.  I don't mind the idea of a trainee clan where the purpose is for an established clan to bring up a group of new players and teach them the ins and outs of matching, but it seems more and more it's becoming a tool for tryouts.  A bunch of clans are now wanting secondary clans to test people out, and they don't even have enough active members to keep the main clan going.

eradicator

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Re: Clan Tags
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2007, 07:23:26 PM »
JP submit this idea in the feature vote thread.
http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=5060.0

nopyo

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Re: Clan Tags
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2007, 10:18:36 PM »
Quote
I don't mind the idea of a trainee clan where the purpose is for an established clan to bring up a group of new players and teach them the ins and outs of matching

That's kinda what [InT] does except that there is no main/training clan split, in other words, you're most likely not going to see an [InT-t]. Although the [InT] clan type works really well, I think a well-established training clan run by [GT] would be nice also.

Zorchenhimer

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Re: Clan Tags
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2007, 11:53:34 PM »
But a clan run by another clan does not make any sense to me. In my opinion, any clan should not need another separate clan just for trainees. Instead, those clans need to setup a rank system (e.g. Rct, Cdt, Pvt, etc.).

Eiii

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Re: Clan Tags
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2007, 11:57:10 PM »
The idea behind the whole training clan thing is to let newer players integrate into the clan community without actually forcing the clans to take on the newer players. The training clans are also supposed to be actually trained into the main clan, but I don't see that happening too much. Then again, I don't exactly have an eye in each clan.

...or do I?

sk89q

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Re: Clan Tags
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2007, 01:08:34 AM »
I totally agree with Zorch. A rank system seems much more fit than making a lowly "training clan."

XtremeBain

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Re: Clan Tags
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2007, 07:33:13 AM »
I have a couple different views on the whole training clan thing.  There seems to be a two variants that are operating right now.

The first one is a farm team.  These farm teams seem to exist to allow mature clans to be more active since they're able to virtually double or triple their active player counts by adding a team of lesser skilled players.  This means that clans can churn out more matches since it's likely that they'll have at least 3-4 players ready to play during peak times.  It's also worth noting that these players usually seem to already be integrated into the clan scene, just not ready for a top-tier clan yet.

Of course, it really depends on how this farm team runs, but I don't really see any benefits to any of these players unless the clan running the team is actively leading, developing and practicing with the team.  The usual case however, is that the top bracket of skill in the farm team gets the most match time with the actual clan.  This isn't necessarily bad, but they don't get the recognition they deserve as a full fledged member of that clan.  This probably also discourages the lower skill players in the clan.  As well, there's no agreement that all members of the clan must be promoted through the farm team, so if the clan decides to take on 3 members from a recently disbanded team then you'll sit on that farm team until you're good enough for the real deal or leave to join another clan that's within your skill range.

The thing I do like about these farm teams is that with some commitment on the clan's behalf, a group of lesser skilled players get to play in a more stable team under good leadership that they probably wouldn't see in other non-affiliated clans of similar skill.  Under these conditions it's also likely for a player to be more marketable when looking for another team, since you'll have experience playing and practicing with one of the better teams in this game.

The next is a genuine training team which focuses on the getting players into IRC, the forums and matching alike.  I have a lot of respect for the work done by InT and teams that take the same approach.  I think that a lot of work needs to be done getting players from public servers to the matching community before we start worrying about narrowing the skill gap in teams of already established players.  Maybe it is essential to have both training teams and farm teams, but right now I would like to see more emphasis on getting players into matches and training teams than giving mid-skilled but already established players a known brand to play under.

It's quite obvious that different training clans and farm teams have different intentions.  My respect will always go out to those that are genuinely developing others, not those that are only doing it for their own benefit.

On a side note, new players shouldn't be scared of being a leader.  Leadership qualities (should) have nothing to do with skill.  Fortunately, I've never been the best player in a clan that I've led and good players will play for you if you can prove that you're a good leader.  Back when I started, I went after one of the best teams at the time and volunteered to redesign their website.  I didn't play a single match that season but I was allowed to take on administrative duties and get involved with players in other teams that would have never talked to me otherwise.  When that team moved on, it put me in a good position to lead other players that were way out of my skill bracket and now 8 years later I'm almost decent at PB2.

[/essay]

jitspoe

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Re: Clan Tags
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2007, 05:34:55 PM »
Committee voted no to the GT recruiting clan.  There doesn't seem to be any reason to create a whole new clan solely for recruiting members.

m7feettall

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Re: Clan Tags
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2007, 06:16:30 PM »
I have a couple different views on the whole training clan thing.  There seems to be a two variants that are operating right now.

The first one is a farm team.  These farm teams seem to exist to allow mature clans to be more active since they're able to virtually double or triple their active player counts by adding a team of lesser skilled players.  This means that clans can churn out more matches since it's likely that they'll have at least 3-4 players ready to play during peak times.  It's also worth noting that these players usually seem to already be integrated into the clan scene, just not ready for a top-tier clan yet.

Of course, it really depends on how this farm team runs, but I don't really see any benefits to any of these players unless the clan running the team is actively leading, developing and practicing with the team.  The usual case however, is that the top bracket of skill in the farm team gets the most match time with the actual clan.  This isn't necessarily bad, but they don't get the recognition they deserve as a full fledged member of that clan.  This probably also discourages the lower skill players in the clan.  As well, there's no agreement that all members of the clan must be promoted through the farm team, so if the clan decides to take on 3 members from a recently disbanded team then you'll sit on that farm team until you're good enough for the real deal or leave to join another clan that's within your skill range.

The thing I do like about these farm teams is that with some commitment on the clan's behalf, a group of lesser skilled players get to play in a more stable team under good leadership that they probably wouldn't see in other non-affiliated clans of similar skill.  Under these conditions it's also likely for a player to be more marketable when looking for another team, since you'll have experience playing and practicing with one of the better teams in this game.

The next is a genuine training team which focuses on the getting players into IRC, the forums and matching alike.  I have a lot of respect for the work done by InT and teams that take the same approach.  I think that a lot of work needs to be done getting players from public servers to the matching community before we start worrying about narrowing the skill gap in teams of already established players.  Maybe it is essential to have both training teams and farm teams, but right now I would like to see more emphasis on getting players into matches and training teams than giving mid-skilled but already established players a known brand to play under.

It's quite obvious that different training clans and farm teams have different intentions.  My respect will always go out to those that are genuinely developing others, not those that are only doing it for their own benefit.

On a side note, new players shouldn't be scared of being a leader.  Leadership qualities (should) have nothing to do with skill.  Fortunately, I've never been the best player in a clan that I've led and good players will play for you if you can prove that you're a good leader.  Back when I started, I went after one of the best teams at the time and volunteered to redesign their website.  I didn't play a single match that season but I was allowed to take on administrative duties and get involved with players in other teams that would have never talked to me otherwise.  When that team moved on, it put me in a good position to lead other players that were way out of my skill bracket and now 8 years later I'm almost decent at PB2.

[/essay]



I think your overall characterization is accurate. The brief time that I was in Ab-T was not really long enough to give a fair assessment, but essentially those that were already quite skilled and in line for advancement got the most playing time during busy hours.  But we had permission to find our own scrims so in the evenings I could still play some. Training by Ab was fairly limited. I don't remember hearing of any practices. Sometimes we would watch one of the guys scrim with us and get a few verbal pointers in TS.

I knew I was not up to par and didn't see that changing soon so I made InT with rept to just focus on the basics and getting as much scrimming in as possible.

Now that we have had members graduate into other clans we get some feedback on their experience. From Gameover it sounds like Farmstarz do practice with the main clan from time to time, which is good. There is not a whole lot of one on one time with the main clan members but he said he did find one or two who would hang out with him and give him pointers. Overall the expectation was that they would know the scrim game already.

In the meantime the beginner clan scene has all but dried up. For a time there were a number of clans that would scrim often, NK, AND (PSK), Dynasty, etc. We could find at least one beginner clan scrim a night and then one or two with established clans. The better clans would always beat us and still do. But now with the lack of beginner clans it is a bit more frustrating to train folks when they have little chance to win.

We still beat UE every now and again and IA, etc. But it would help to have some way to build up beginner clans. Most are just a tag so that folks feel they fit in, and they seldom if ever scrim.

Even if they wanted to scrim they don't have a communication system to get in touch with their own members or other clans.

I have recently taken to spamming info on how to get into irc in pubs that have noob clans on. Frankly they are too lazy to set it up.  So I don't see a lot of changes in the near future.



Apocalypse

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Re: Clan Tags
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2007, 04:46:56 PM »
TZ will scrim you if you catch us when we have some players on.

JpKool

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Re: Clan Tags
« Reply #32 on: October 27, 2007, 11:36:28 AM »
Committee voted no to the GT recruiting clan.  There doesn't seem to be any reason to create a whole new clan solely for recruiting members.

Thats fine i quit [GT] do to inactivity, tired of the bs. no point in me being there if i cant do anything lol.

JpKool

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Re: Clan Tags
« Reply #33 on: October 27, 2007, 11:37:27 AM »
8 years later I'm almost decent at PB2.

[/essay]

LOL common man i think ur as good then as u are now lol :P

m7feettall

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Re: Clan Tags
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2007, 01:10:26 PM »
TZ will scrim you if you catch us when we have some players on.

Are you on irc?