Digital Paint Discussion Board
Paintball 2: The Game => Paintball 2 Discussion => Topic started by: m7feettall on February 25, 2009, 01:26:44 AM
-
Hacking appears to be an ongoing reality in DP. Bix's thread again put attention on the matter, but it dealt with the issue of a grace period which was a misunderstanding of Jitspoe's words. So this thread is more focused on the length of bans.
For those unaware of the system for calculating bans that Jitspoe has used for some time, the official statement reads as follows:
First-offense bans are typically 32 days. The ban length doubles each time you get caught.
Do you think that is the right number? Is it working to discourage cheating? Should it be different? How would you punish bans?
Show us your system, or comment on the current.
What factors should impact ban time?
-use in matches?
-use by active clan members?
-coming forward?
-cooperating in taking down others?
-turning over demos?
others?
-
How about we leave jitspoe alone for once and stop complaining. Every time someone gets caught people go and make like 3+ threads trying to get this game changed and I'm pretty sure nothing has been changed to this point. The rules are the rules and people will always go out of there way to break said rules. I doubt lengthening the ban time would differ any cheaters because odds are their going to do it anyways.
Cheating is nothing new, theirs a system and penalties in place for these reasons so just let it run its course.
EDIT: I'm sick of you MEN crying. Things are being handled maybe not at the pace you would like but I'm sure as much time is being put into handling these cases as the commitee and jitspoe can spare.
-
I say change the ban time to PERMANENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RAWR!
-
I say change the ban time to PERMANENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RAWR!
+1
-
Cheating is nothing new, theirs a system and penalties in place for these reasons so just let it run its course.''
Running its course meant that Cuso could cheat again, this time using multiple cheats, developing a cheat and if Bix's account is to be believed, help people set up wall hacks and ratbots.
The game did not benefit by just letting that run its course.
EDIT: I'm sick of you MEN crying. Things are being handled maybe not at the pace you would like but I'm sure as much time is being put into handling these cases as the commitee and jitspoe can spare.
Discussing issues is not crying.
-
He never helped set up ratbots and wallhacks. Notice he never got banned for a ratbot? How would he no so much about it? He has 64 days as it should be... He wallhacked and it was his second offence. What is unjust about it? The ban times have been set, he accepted his ban and it was his second time. So 64. The first ban is 1 month.
It's all happening cause people think cusoman should have a longer ban? Please somebody tell me, Whats the difference if somebody used 'zgh/modded content' or 'made their own wallhack' Either way you cheated and wallhacked. He deserves what he has, he didn't put up a fight and took his ban. He appologized, cause he doesn't want to come back in 2 months with people hating him.
That being said, i don't find the ban times to short, or to long. There in a pretty good area right now. 1 month for using a hack in a free online game. Whats wrong with that? Then it doubles each offence.
I don't think that their is a difference between using it in matches/pubs etc.. I think you used it once and get caught, 32 days. If you use it 100 times and get caught, 32 days. Cause it's still your first time getting caught. Why change things now? Its just my opinion that it is good where it's at.
-
The way things have been going lately I'm all for a perm ban on hackers.
-
eMo said everything necessary.
m7feettall, you don't have to make five threads about the same subject. I would consider that crying. If jitspoe doesnt want to change the ban lengths after all the threads, wouldn't it be the time to let go?
-
I support the per ban.
On the subject of hacking vs creating a hack...creating a hack is much worse.
People can't hack if they're not created. A person with the skills to create a hack, and then doing so, is exponetially more dangerous to the community than someone that simply obtains a hack. What's to say the creator won't just continue on with his work knowing that his current version of the hack was detected? Oh wait...that's right...he said he wouldn't. We'll take his word for it on that one. Afterall, he is completely honest and trustworthy...besides the creating and using of hacks.
I think creator of hack should face a much much stricter punishment.
The hack creator goes forward with malice and fore thought. The hack creator maliciously knows what he/she is doing, and must put conscious effort into their creation. The hack creator does this all the while KNOWING he/she has one goal in mind...to CHEAT.
If it weren't for the creators there would be no hacks.
My 32 cents.
-
I think creator of hack should face a much much stricter punishment.
The hack creator goes forward with malice and fore thought. The hack creator maliciously knows what he/she is doing, and must put conscious effort into their creation. The hack creator does this all the while KNOWING he/she has one goal in mind...to CHEAT.
If it weren't for the creators there would be no hacks.
In Cusomans case I believe his intent was outa pure curiosity if he could actually hook the functions of the game. He did and now he gets to serve time for his accomplishment. Sure he created a hack but if he turns said hack into jitspoe, the games cheat detection just becomes that much stronger.
I know you're an old timer S8N but can you honestly say that if cheaters got a perm ban would you actually make a comeback to this game, or are you just trolling outa boredom and throwing your dimes of wisdom in where its obvious you're out of the loop?
-
I support the per ban.
On the subject of hacking vs creating a hack...creating a hack is much worse.
People can't hack if they're not created. A person with the skills to create a hack, and then doing so, is exponetially more dangerous to the community than someone that simply obtains a hack. What's to say the creator won't just continue on with his work knowing that his current version of the hack was detected? Oh wait...that's right...he said he wouldn't. We'll take his word for it on that one. Afterall, he is completely honest and trustworthy...besides the creating and using of hacks.
I think creator of hack should face a much much stricter punishment.
The hack creator goes forward with malice and fore thought. The hack creator maliciously knows what he/she is doing, and must put conscious effort into their creation. The hack creator does this all the while KNOWING he/she has one goal in mind...to CHEAT.
If it weren't for the creators there would be no hacks.
My 32 cents.
Indeed, he has been caught twice hacking, once taking time to make a hack. There is no argument that this was just on a whim.
eMo said everything necessary.
m7feettall, you don't have to make five threads about the same subject. I would consider that crying. If jitspoe doesnt want to change the ban lengths after all the threads, wouldn't it be the time to let go?
Nope. Time goes on. People have new evidence to consider. The more clan folks we have cheating and developing cheats the more evidence we have that the current system does not deter cheaters.
He never helped set up ratbots and wallhacks. Notice he never got banned for a ratbot? How would he no so much about it?
Why did he say it to Bix then?
People can run things offline and not be caught, so it is certainly possible for him to know how it works. And he was caught walling and stated to Bix he had helped set that up too.
-
Would this be considered evidence? And how long would this person deserve?
Just a question: I have logs of somebody distributing an Ratbot, and explaining how to get wallhacks. I haven't been sure whether to post or not, but would it get taken seriously? Cause i have noticed logs aren't sufficent proof. But he did distribute it. I have logs and you could probably ask an IRC Operator to verify the pm's. So just want feedback as to if it's worth letting the logs to the community to see 'Even the older players are part of ruining the game' To prove bix wrong about 'The new generation' ruining the game.
-
It depends really Myers. When bix had those logs on vent they were half cut off and etc. So no one knows really if it were true (which it wasn't true they were fake) But from now on we should get some committee members to check with IRC Operators to verify the logs and saying yes this convo. actually happened.
-
So if i got the IRC Operator to check the conversation it would be legit? It went something like this:
'x' says: Those newbies don't no how to use a ratbot.
'y' says: lol
'x' says: [Insert Link]
'x' says: Thats what you gotta do, undetectable.
Then later in the convo he explains how to make undetectable wallhacks. ' Those are just what the remember off the top of my head ill get the logs later if it will be taken seriously. And if it was taken serious, how long of a ban would 'x' get? And would 'y' Get banned for giving me the logs?
-
It would be legit, but i said a COMMITTEE Member would have to ask that IRC operator like this
Committee member: Did myers ask you to verify those logs about so and so?
IRC Operator: Yes he did those logs are valid and he did have that convo with so and so
Committee member: Ok thanks.
From that point you can see that it would help out the committee. Because when people distribute it happens mostly on IRC.
-
Lets get some things straight.
1. I DID NOT DISTRIBUTE MY HACK
2. I knew some mild c++, and I was curious. It was stupid. I realize that. I'm banned.
3. Someone explain why me being banned is being scrutinized far more seriously then any other ban?
4. I did infact intend to turn my Hack into Jitspoe. This was after i was banned, i thought i might as well help detection since I'm fairly convinced that some of my versions were not detected. This is not a hidden message that Im distributing hacks, this is me attempting to pm jitspoe about the hack i made. It was incredibly basic, and I want it patched. And for the record I did pm jitspoe on irc the day I was banned, and I have yet to get ahold of him.
5. What bix says is partially true and partially false.
I did discuss with bix the fact that I knew of multiple people hacking, and i did discuss with him that I also knew how to set these hacks up. However when I told him i did not hack, that was true, because IT had been a while since i did use the modified walls, and when i did i only used it a few times!
6. Number of days of truthful memory that I have hacked:
6-8 (can't exactly remember how many days I used the modified walls, but I know i used my own hack for 3 days.)
7. I have not been hacking for months. I hacked like 3 months ago for a very small portion of time, then stopped because it was wrong. After being provoked by the community because of the intense hacking, and because I knew some c++, I wondered how hard it would be to code a hack. Guess wut, It wasn't hard. I got caught up with it, and am now banned.
8. About the 2nd offense:
If anyone even cared to read about how I was banned the first time they would realize that I did not hack the first time, and instead made a stupid mistake while being extremely new at this game.
9. Am i honestly that different from other hackers? I hacked and feel horrible. I would never do it again, and intend to come back clean after my ban time is served.
I shall now sit back as the community searches for hidden messages, evil intents, paraphrases and selectively reads my once again sincere post. I am ashamed of what i have done. But regardless, I shall be flamed.
-Cusoman
-
You actually WANT to get hacks detected not like other hackers, they want to use the hacks so i kinda do believe you want to get it detected cause you've talked with me many times of getting these detected.
-
You actually WANT to get hacks detected not like other hackers, they want to use the hacks so i kinda do believe you want to get it detected cause you've talked with me many times of getting these detected.
I'm pretty sure it was detected just fine. Jit has no reason to comment on the detection in cheat reports, since it only helps VS express alchemists refine their designs. As it is, DP is pretty safe from people swapping a few lines of code.
-
I'm pretty sure it was detected just fine. Jit has no reason to comment on the detection in cheat reports, since it only helps VS express alchemists refine their designs. As it is, DP is pretty safe from people swapping a few lines of code.
He usually does comment on the detections Ironfist.
-
He usually does comment on the detections Ironfist.
You're right man -- I am indeed wrong:
http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fdplogin.com%2Fforums%2Findex.php%3Fboard%3D11.0+modified+client
So, what this indicates is that cusoman carefully planned out this cheat. Getting around the cheat detection requires a small bit detective work -- it's a significant time investment. What I think we have on our hands is a really dedicated cheater. I'm glad you pointed this out, since he was merely a run-of-the-mill cheat creator before. With your assertion, we can be sure that banning him for at least 32 days is justified.
Thanks, bro.
-
Ironfist why are you such a detective? Like he said he knew MILD C++ there is no 'detective' work to get around it. He just coded it in C++ Knowing it. BRO
-
Ironfist why are you such a detective? Like he said he knew MILD C++ there is no 'detective' work to get around it. He just coded it in C++ Knowing it. BRO
Brosephus of bromingham, I'm quite confident that he is the (http://www.cookingupastorm.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/s2-grimlocktaco1.jpg) of cheating. I'd like to thank you for using your personal knowledge of the situation (and C++) to assess the issue and provide confirmation of an entirely new and dangerous attack vector that cusoman has uncovered in his manic-like obsession with manufacturing cheats.
-
/sarcasim
for those of you unsure.
-
Lets get some things straight.
1. I DID NOT DISTRIBUTE MY HACK
Yes, as I said in one of the threads, I don't think you would because you can't know which versions were undetectable. So distributing to anyone you actually like would put them at risk.
3. Someone explain why me being banned is being scrutinized far more seriously then any other ban?
I can't speak for anyone else.
You are the most recent in a string of hackers from the clan community, and so for the moment you epitomize the problem.
I think even those who vehemently disagree with me have pointed out that I have been "crying" about the issue long before you became the latest poster boy.
4. I did infact intend to turn my Hack into Jitspoe. This was after i was banned, i thought i might as well help detection since I'm fairly convinced that some of my versions were not detected. This is not a hidden message that Im distributing hacks, this is me attempting to pm jitspoe about the hack i made. It was incredibly basic, and I want it patched. And for the record I did pm jitspoe on irc the day I was banned, and I have yet to get ahold of him.
He is often in vent. Try contacting him there.
5. What bix says is partially true and partially false.
I did discuss with bix the fact that I knew of multiple people hacking, and i did discuss with him that I also knew how to set these hacks up. However when I told him i did not hack, that was true, because IT had been a while since i did use the modified walls, and when i did i only used it a few times!
Let's focus on one part of that. You KNOW HOW to set up those hacks. Did you in fact help people set up those hacks as Bix claims you stated?
Did you help people set up ratbots and modified maps?
8. About the 2nd offense:
If anyone even cared to read about how I was banned the first time they would realize that I did not hack the first time, and instead made a stupid mistake while being extremely new at this game.
To be fair to you I went and read the thread. No, you did not appear to be intentionally hacking the first time if we take your statements at face value.
However, I think it goes without saying that you were completely without excuse the second time, knowing the results of modifying textures from the first instance.
Now, perhaps you could help us shed light on another area. If you did not use the modified maps recently, and yet Jits detected them, that means he has had the means of detection for some time.
So either he is sitting on a bunch of data, or you are lying as to when you last used them. I don't know which yet, but perhaps some here do.
-
It depends really Myers. When bix had those logs on vent they were half cut off and etc. So no one knows really if it were true (which it wasn't true they were fake) But from now on we should get some committee members to check with IRC Operators to verify the logs and saying yes this convo. actually happened.
I don't know the technical side. If it could be independently verified then I think that would be fine. Do they routinely archive all activity?
And to Myers, I don't care if they are oldschool, young players or anything else. If they distribute they need a nice long ban.
-
m7, Jitspoe has the old vent really really old vent the new players and everybody probably here uses 3.0 ventrilo, So jitspoe you should think about getting the new ventrilo so we can tell you about these problems if ever something happens. Like M7 said you're usually on vent.
-
If he got version 3 ventrilo, he'd have to pay to host a server of any decent size and quality. That's why the dplogin and gt vents use 2.1. However, according to the website, hosting vent servers older than 3.0 is fraud and they can prosecute.
-
If he got version 3 ventrilo, he'd have to pay to host a server of any decent size and quality. That's why the dplogin and gt vents use 2.1. However, according to the website, hosting vent servers older than 3.0 is fraud and they can prosecute.
That's why we would give him ventrilo servers that many DP players get on. I have so many of them.
-
I say change the ban time to PERMANENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RAWR!
+1000000000
-
I think that after Jitspoe's new rule on ban times doubled was a good idea.
http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=16395.0
I don't think anything more will be done. After the two ban times from Rick and Boolut I would hope that the creation/distributing of hacks cools down.
-
I think that after Jitspoe's new rule on ban times doubled was a good idea.
http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=16395.0
I don't think anything more will be done. After the two ban times from Rick and Boolut I would hope that the creation/distributing of hacks cools down.
It may cool down for a while, but it's always going to be a factor.
People have now seen what you get for coming forward to distribution, I would really doubt that anymore distributors will come forward.
Pretty much, the only thing the 1024 day ban has done is scare distributors back off the forums and force them not to admit because of the severe ban time. The ones that aren't banned are going to be more careful about who they give 'hacks' to, but it's not going to stop it.
Also, 1024 day ban is pretty much a permanent ban. After someone gets this ban, there's not much to lose because your practically permanently banned anyway. So I'd think distributors have nothing to lose, meaning that they would give them out to anyone, not be careful anymore. Maybe even upload them to public sites.
And before you ask, No, I haven't given out 'hacks' to anyone since I've been banned, but I could if I wanted to and I'm not the only one that has distributed before.
The Shazam22, airtime1 and propaint1 modified maps were given out by I believe Darkness and Madman(Please correct me if I'm wrong), after they were banned for 1024 days.
I could distribute if I really wanted to because I will, most likely, not be back to this game. (I won't though).
Edit: I really don't know where I was going with this post. Take what you please from it.
-
You're right it's always going to be there. But any decent member of the community should realize that it's wrong and they should take heed to the penalty for it. I know that if I ever wanted to quit this game, I most certainly wouldn't hack, just look at the examples of what has happened. And you're right distributors might become more careful about who they give them to, but most of them will get caught eventually. It's sad to see that people just don't care about this game, where they SEE an example of what could happen to them from Rick and Boolut, and will still continue distributing/hacking. It doesn't help you and it doesn't help this community.