Digital Paint Discussion Board
Development => Mapping => Map Graveyard => Topic started by: Clipz on July 19, 2012, 06:41:07 PM
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Before people complain about their fps drops, get a better video card and you wont have a problem.
HIGHLY RECOMMEND YOU DOWNLOAD THIS: (Trees, Grass, and Mushrooms) ftp://www.otb-server.de/pub/sk89q_plantlife.zip (http://ftp://www.otb-server.de/pub/sk89q_plantlife.zip) & ftp://www.otb-server.de/pub/sk89q_trees.zip
(http://ftp://www.otb-server.de/pub/sk89q_trees.zip)
cP is a 2 team 1 flag CTF (2nd flags could be added not sure yet, white flag is also in the mix) The bases are based off of Halo 3's Valhalla with the launch pads, and the river going from one side to the other. The mid is nothing like it just something I put together.
DL B1: clipz.viciouz.co.uk/maps/cp_b1.bsp (http://clipz.viciouz.co.uk/maps/cp_b1.bsp)
SS's
(http://clipz.viciouz.co.uk/screenshots/cp1.jpg)
(http://clipz.viciouz.co.uk/screenshots/cp2.jpg)
(http://clipz.viciouz.co.uk/screenshots/cp3.jpg)
(http://clipz.viciouz.co.uk/screenshots/cp4.jpg)
(http://clipz.viciouz.co.uk/screenshots/cp5.jpg)
(http://clipz.viciouz.co.uk/screenshots/cp6.jpg)
(http://clipz.viciouz.co.uk/screenshots/cp7.jpg)
(http://clipz.viciouz.co.uk/screenshots/cp8.jpg)
(http://clipz.viciouz.co.uk/screenshots/cp9.jpg)
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Also dont bother critiquing it yet because im not even close to done.
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I love this map!
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Its already a great job clipz :)
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Also dont bother critiquing it yet because im not even close to done.
For what reason do you post the map in a forum then?
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So people can view it... ill be honest dont bother critiquing my maps chef, ive been doing this long enough dont need your input if a texture is off one unit dont bother wasting your time.
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Hm... ok, why should people view a half done map with lots of lags? (not sure if you run a final compile or fast vis) They can't play it well anyway and a "nice map" or "great job" because of screenshots maybe makes you happy, but it doesn't help to improve a map.
If you don't want to have feedback, I'll not wasting my time. But I've already found at least 3 big holes and a flying tree just by running around a while, what a good map shouldn't have. I can't really understand why people post maps in a forum where discussions are totally normal and don't want to get feedback (not only one unit misaligned textures). You can improve all maps of this game, also mine and yours. So feedback isn't something bad. And if the map is done well, the feedback will be correspondingly shorter.
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I love you Clipz
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Why do people upload their .BSP file to a website instead of simply attaching it to their post? I'm slightly concerned that their's a virus in it or something.
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LOL Good Speach Cheif-Killer Love It..... To me the map looks plain.. iv played it its fun but its to plain...
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Chef There are no leaks in the map. I've been creating q2 maps for 10+ years I don't need your input. I don't see any of your maps played and most of mine still are.
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Who cares how long do you map? If you would do it well, I wouldn't need to post feedback with stuff to improve/fix. I can't see any argument/reason why you're rejecting feedback. Maybe you think you're the best mapper all of the world? In germany we call this "beratungsresistent", in english it might be immune to feedback or just ignorance.
Now we have one more unfinished beta that lags because of very high_rspeeds, starts with a warning and has holes, flying trees, etc., we have a mapper who don't want to get any feedback / improve his map and we have a useless topic because of that. Maybe locking the topic would be the best, so everyone can view the map and you can be sure not to get any feedback.
A useless discussion about the maps that are better or are played more often, I save myself, because I don't want to judge my own maps. You can judge them in the topics of the maps if you want to.
Btw, hole ≠ leak
(http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/3458.jpg)
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The map does not leak when i do a final compile... so NICE TRY the hill is off but there is no leak in the map or else quark will NOT compile the map and will give an error and show you the leak. I'm not the best mapper alive, but I'm one of the only mappers left from this game. Quit arguing with me on this subject you will not win. Go harass someone else about their map being off by a few units, or make your own... oh yeah you did discovery and it failed miserable just like OTB did in dp when they played.
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Chef, if he doesn't want you help, then just leave this thread ffs, most people don't want you to help them because you're a bit annoying. Honestly he's one of the best mappers... and you're not even in the top 20 for mapping. So for future notice if people ask you to eff off, just do it.
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Who cares how long do you map? If you would do it well, I wouldn't need to post feedback with stuff to improve/fix. I can't see any argument/reason why you're rejecting feedback. Maybe you think you're the best mapper all of the world? In germany we call this "beratungsresistent", in english it might be immune to feedback or just ignorance.
(http://www.otb-server.de/wbblite/attachments/3458.jpg)
+1 oeieeoieoeie
usak clipz
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Before people complain about their fps drops, get a better video card and you wont have a problem.
So if you design unoptimized program, you tell your clients to upgrade PC rather than optimize your program? Bad way of solving problems.
Q2 engine isn't designed to handle open maps, it was designed in times many users didn't have 3D acceleration. And Jitspoe haven't changed it really much since then. And you come up with map that is open, lagging, and say that we should upgrade our GPU if it lags. If engine would be optimized, i wouldn't get ~25fps in most open places. If your map won't be that big/loaded with models it would be same. But it's GPU problem? I don't think so.
Epoly count on your map is ~50000 in some places, you get RED color when you reach ~10000. This obviously doesn't mean that your map isn't designed correctly to Q2 engine being able to use it optimally. This just means that GPU is too slow.
Quit arguing with me on this subject you will not win.
Chef killer tries to help you. But oh well, just like in case with optimization, it's not your failure!
Honestly he's one of the best mappers... and you're not even in the top 20 for mapping. So for future notice if people ask you to eff off, just do it.
If doesn't matter if Clipz is best or worst, it does matter that Chef killer is good and trying to help. Even if Clipz is best, Chef is still good, and Chef is able to spot things that Clipz can't see because of miscellaneous reasons. Clipz is stupid rejecting Chef killer even if he is better.
The map does not leak when i do a final compile...
Clipz way of fixing leaks: Make big box around map.
To be honest, this map is great, but isn't finished, misses finishing touches and is LAGGING with creator saying it's because of GPU while it isn't.
Clipz, you should accept Chef help even if you are better, it doesn't really matter. Also you should reduce lags, i understand that you want to make this map look nice but maps are made to play, not to just look on them. You can make this map awesome without lags.
And Jitspoe should improve engine way of handling big maps. Most maps nowadays are open.
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chef is not good at mapping lol..... look at his maps.
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chef is not good at mapping lol..... look at his maps.
Sure he is simply bad but still capable of finding bugs in maps. What a irony.
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OKAY LETS TALK ABOUT MAPPING INSTEAD OF THE MAP.
Chem: actually, Chefkiller's maps are really good, they are some of the nicer-looking maps in DP. Same with many mappers, Cusoman being the first that comes to mind. Does it mean their bad mappers? No. Their maps are really well made, look nice, they just don't match enough to know what gameplay people like.
Clipz's maps on the other hand, really don't get played either. TLC and maybe mystique get used on some speed pubs, but then again, so does Discovery, and some Cuso maps. So there's room for improvement on both sides.
Clipz's maps usually have good gameplay / flag placement, but are really ugly lool. I hate his terrain in every map, especially with the new physics. It's the most unrealistic terrain too.
You can argue one side or the other, do new players really care if the gameplay is good? No. When you're new, you can't tell the difference. Look and the game itself matters.
Do experienced players give a intercourse about a misaligned box? No. We just want some map with some jumps, and good gameplay.
But, in the current state the game is in, I understand Clipz' reason for not wanting his map critiqued. Takes enough time to make maps, making it look good / perfectly made takes soooo much time on top of that. Why waste that much time for a game that can't even have the activity to run a league? Or that can even consistently get a clan vs clan match going. But, when you still play sometimes, and enjoy making maps, it's nice to toss out some maps to make the small matching scene more interesting for the moment.
Not many people can pull off the look, and the gameplay.
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The map does not leak when i do a final compile... so NICE TRY the hill is off but there is no leak in the map or else quark will NOT compile the map and will give an error and show you the leak. I'm not the best mapper alive, but I'm one of the only mappers left from this game. Quit arguing with me on this subject you will not win. Go harass someone else about their map being off by a few units, or make your own... oh yeah you did discovery and it failed miserable just like OTB did in dp when they played.
Chef didn't say it had a leak. Right at the end of his post he says that a hole does not equal a leak. (The mathematical symbol).
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I just want to express my support for Chef.
Maybe he is little annoying with his scrutiny, but the only reason why he does that is you skimp your job. How hard is to look after bugs in map soo little detailed? Seriosly, don´t even try to criticize Chef. His maps are much better than yours and he puts a lot of effort in it.
Your maps are just random formations of big fat ugly blocks with few randomly arranged models. And yes, they are played sometimes, because you are in favour of map owners, but players keep leaving when your maps are on.
Face up to reality and don´t brag so much.
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I just want to express my support for Chef.
Yup same here, he may be a little annoying, but still, where would quality of our maps be without him. We would still play maps like shz22 (ok it has decent gameplay, but it has way too many holes/bugs, just remember how many times did your nade get stuck under a missplaced crate).
Also imagine how much time he spents just going through maps, which he probably doesnt even like and he does it for free in his free time.
His maps might not be played that much in matches, still they are favorite maps on speeds. In addition, his maps are great inspiration for new mappers (selda, his design of destiny was inspired by discovery) and thats imo much better success for mapper, than if it gets played once or twice in a match.
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Meanwhile, it's more a general discussion. Maybe it's not the right topic for that, but all in all the discussion might help to understand different people, to understand the existing problem and it can help to find solutions to put more effort in maps.
The problem is not that it's possible to post and - not - improve/fix maps like this (topics can be locked or deleted). Clipz isn't the first one and i'm pretty sure he won't be the last one. The problem is that mappers can ignore or bypass the guidelines (link (http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=5149.0)) to release and improve a new good quality map without any consequences. The reasons could be a wrong attitude to mapping, laziness, just the fact that unfinished maps are playable anyway, or something like that.
Most of the server admins will upload the maps without checking the quality, sometimes even as a final. At times, you could upload every scrap to specific servers. This publishing makes lots of scrap known and popular by some people, another problem.
There're some players who don't care about the quality of maps, that's why other people need to do it even more in advance to increase the quality of the game and to attract new players. We can't attract new player and hope that they stay with those scrap maps that totally ruin the game and the fun.
So we need to make a cut and find a solution for current maps and especially for the release of new maps. Because new maps could increase the quality for the future (next to official hr4 textures and other stuff that makes maps better without changing the map itself).
The guidelines are already done for years and there're lots of maps with much potential. But potential is like a talent, it's not all and it needs much effort to exhaust. What we need are the consequences if mappers ignore or bypass the guidelines. It's the only way to avoid scrap.
I mention that for years. We need a general change for the map(-ping) part of the game to increase the quality of the current and new maps. Beta maps only playable on beta servers, official maplist, map signature, etc. are just a few possibilities to give mappers a need to improve their maps and follow the guidelines. The mapping committee might help to implement stuff like this, but unfortunately it has not enough influence and everything needs jitspoe's ok and help.
Personally I try to help all mappers with feedback, tips, explanations, etc. Spending time and effort is the only part I can do at the moment to ensure higher quality maps than we already have. We don't need more and more maps, we need maps that have something special and that are well done. I hope mappers will also realize this by themself sometime. As long as I shall point out. I'm sorry if a mapper should be offended in his honor, but the game should definitely stand above individuals.
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Mappers make maps for them self not for you chef so use my guide lines and dont post on any of my maps I release.
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Mappers make maps for them self
I thought mappers make maps for everyone. If they made them only for themselves then they wouldn't post them on forums for people to download.
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Maybe you should stop posting your maps here, clipz, you fat as intercourse whale.
User banned for this post
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Clipz, you do enjoy playing shazam over shazamr if that goes to show how you lack an eye for completed and good playing maps.
ThC loves mystique for its game play. You hate it and your second version is awful.
Rallyr_b1 is a nice map, I like it and it looks clean.
This new map i do not like. The jumps are random, and very hard to make. You could speed out the same spot and hit the jump 50% of the time. The launchers in base don't help due to the fact they launch you at different speeds and different angles depending on where and how hard you hit them. I personally hate open maps as well.
I also noticed that in this thread you attacked chef killer before he made any post. A simple I don't want any misaligned textures mentioned because I am not finished would have sufficed.
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Chef There are no leaks in the map. I've been creating q2 maps for 10+ years I don't need your input. I don't see any of your maps played and most of mine still are.
OHHHHHH SNAPPPPPPPPPP.
Go assman!
Played it against you guys and it was fun, mid laggs a bit but whatever
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ur laggin everywhere lol
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True dat.
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I don't want to come off as a jerk, but this post is going to be very critical, and hopefully you'll be able to take it constructively and be able to use it to improve your maps in the future:
First, the title: If you're going to call it Valhalla, just call it valhalla. I don't see how that's associated with cP in any way. Just because you're in a clan doesn't mean you have to name a map after it. :P
Next, performance: This map pretty much combines all of things that cause poor performance in Paintball2: Large, open areas (since bsp chops them up), no real visibility blockers, water, poor brush alignment (gaps/unsealed areas all over), and tons of entities. The r_speeds are in the red pretty much everywhere, and you really need to avoid that. You can't expect everybody to have a high end gaming machine. Most of the people who do aren't playing this game. Even my machine, which plays BF3 fine, drops down to like 30fps sometimes.
Latency: All the entities you've added for grass, trees, etc. actually add networked entities which take up bandwidth. Also, since the map is basically just a big box with no visibility blockers, all entities (players, paintballs, etc.) are going to be sent over the network all the time (in addition to all the trees and such), likely resulting in overflows or just a laggy experience overall.
Visuals: I'm going to be honest, the map itself doesn't look very good. It just looks like a bunch of giant wedges haphazardly placed around. I realize it's a work in progress, but I think you're going about it the wrong way. The base world terrain should all be aligned. Snap your verts to the grid and such. Also, having the water exactly at the height of the trough, or whatever you want to call it looks weird, as does the fact that there's a waterfall flowing into it from each side. Where does the water go?
Gameplay: The map is almost symmetrical, but not quite. There are some pretty significant differences in the terrain that will probably make it easier to take a shortcut to the flag capture point on one team. The jump pads are kind of an interesting idea, but I think they mostly provide a crutch for the fact that the map is super large and you're going to be spending most of your time traversing terrain. There isn't very good flow to the map. You take a jump pad and try to move across the terrain and slam into a giant block rock that's jutting out of the side or a tree or something. The bases seem mostly pointless. I can't see any reason to go in the lower area, and it makes the ramp up to the capture point awkward. Overall, I imagine the gameplay just boiling down to finding the perfect path where you can move along without hitting trees or rocks, and just speed capping over and over.
Suggestions to improve it:
I think your best bet is to start over and rearchitect the map so it has better terrain and visibility blocking. I would make it more of an S-shape. Try to make it so you can't see more than 1/3 of the map at a time. I would also cut down the map size quite a bit to make it faster to navigate without the uber jump pads. The number of visible trees should be cut down to like 2 or 3 at most (and try to put them in locations where they'd provide tactical cover and not block movement). I'm not sure what to suggest on the bases having not played the Halo version of the map. They certainly need more visual detail and practical playable space, though.
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This was just for fun im not going to finish it ive started a new map which is alot better.
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true^ , idk but i like all of clipz's maps, they make scrims/pugs a lot more fun.
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i like all of clipz maps except ccc i was put off by that one.
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lol i love ccc, great pub map
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yeah just i get really bad fps rates coming out of the castle.
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Dont know why there was the sudden agression against Chef, Im not a mapper, but talking like that to someone who does nothing but help is just plain rude, ignorant, and a little bit arrogant too.
I think you should finish this though, it doesnt seem too bad.
also, blaa, youre still the best forum poster.
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Uhmm clipz did you detail stuff, because it will make less lags. Ps i think the pads should shoot less further and the map being less long. plus i would add stuff like crates and maybe ramps or something coming down the middle.
You dont have to do that, just my opinion.
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Detailing stuff doesn't make it lag any less, it just makes the vis tool have to compute less so it's faster to compile.
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Oh ok :)