Digital Paint Discussion Board
Paintball 2: The Game => Paintball 2 Discussion => Topic started by: jitspoe on May 13, 2013, 06:31:40 PM
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There have been a lot of discussions about a set of official maps recently, so I'm going to take the first steps toward making that happen gradually.
What will it mean if a map is on the official map list?
- Map will be included with the build (or possibly an official map pack if the size gets too large).
- Map is accepted for matches and tournaments.
- When stats are implemented, stats will be recorded for official maps.
- Other map-specific data will be complete and included.
- Navigation files for bots/any necessary files for offline play.
- mapshots
- mapinfo
- loc files
What about maps that aren't on the list?
- These maps can still be played and put into rotation on servers. There may be some kind of serverlist filter setting to show/hide servers playing custom (non-official) maps.
- Clans can still match on these maps if both clans agree. If a clan wants to play on a non-official map and the other clan does not, it will not be played.
- Statistics (if/when implemented) will not be tracked on these maps, or will be tracked separately.
What qualities should a map have to be added to the list?
- Fun to play.
- Well balanced for competitive play.
- Accessible to new players (straightforward paths, no trick jumps required to get flags, etc.).
- Good visual quality (perfectly aligned textures that make sense, good use of lighting, etc.)
- Good performance
- Bug free (no bad spawns, vis glitches, leaks, etc.)
- GPL (open-sourced) to allow for community improvements.
- Ideally, makes use of many of the paintball2 game features.
- Safe for all ages to see.
How do maps get added to the list?
- For starters, we will have a voting thread to determine the best map candidates: VOTE HERE (http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=25978)
- Maps that do not meet the qualities necessary for an official map, but have good potential may be reconstructed by the mapping committee.
- Maps will be slowly added to the maplist -- probably 1 new map per release -- to give plenty of time for fixes, tweaks, and community feedback.
What if I don't like something about this?
- This is a first pass at the concept, so feel free to discuss ways to improve it in this thread.
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Not sure about maps in the build, I think the idea of downloading something small is appealing to those that like myself, like a quick download to try something out, and also not all of us can get above 2 stars on speedtest.
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Well, it may just be a small handful of maps that gets included. I'd like to keep the full version under 50 megs.
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Sup. Airtime/Pbcup_pforest/Carpathian/Castle1/Wobluda/Shazam22/Pbcup_sassault/Prolandr/Propaint1
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Tie this idea in with certified servers.
We could have a setting like sv_certified 1, that would lock the game settings so that all certified servers are the same. Official maplist would be the rotation for these servers.
You could tie in a whole stat system if you wanted, but that might be getting a bit too far ahead?
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This whole thing just made me go nuts! Best thing ever! Carps sex room will have to be removed.
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Well, it may just be a small handful of maps that gets included. I'd like to keep the full version under 50 megs.
Like the sound of that.
Tie this idea in with certified servers.
+1. Also with this make sure the servers have all the content, ie custom textures, considering the fact that some won't download the pack (if there is one).
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I dont understand why people who are not playing this game voting for a offical maplist. Some american guys who arent that active anymore or not playing this game think they know what this game needs. I dont want to offend anyone of you but it is true. In my opinion we dont need something like that and it will make more players leave the game. And thats not only my opinion.
What about maps that aren't on the list?
- Clans can still match on these maps if both clans agree. If a clan wants to play on a non-official map and the other clan does not, it will not be played.
- Statistics (if/when implemented) will not be tracked on these maps, or will be tracked separately.
Thats the worst thing. I talked with some euro guys who arent registered on this forum and they think the same way as i do.
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- Clans can still match on these maps if both clans agree. If a clan wants to play on a non-official map and the other clan does not, it will not be played.
In my opinion, this rule is just for the tie map.
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Very nice that you have started a discussion about this now.
It should be helpful for new players because of a small pool of maps and helpful to find new players staying at the game because of the good quality of those official maps.
I think it may be also a good first step for a single player modus, if there's a fix pool of same maps offline and online.
I'd really like to see different styles of maps in an official maplist, small and big ones, indoor and outdoor, at least one or two maps of each gamemode, etc.
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luckmore/ic3: What do you suggest as an alternative to prevent clans from picking broken/unbalanced/unknown/unfinished maps in a match?
Proposed:
Clan A: "Our map is spawninabox.bsp"
Clan B: "No, it's not an official map."
Alternative:
Clan A: "Our map is spawninabox.bsp"
????
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Delete spawninabox.bsp before people can vote for it as an official map, it brings no benefits to the game :P
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luckmore/ic3: What do you suggest as an alternative to prevent clans from picking broken/unbalanced/unknown/unfinished maps in a match?
Proposed:
Clan A: "Our map is spawninabox.bsp"
Clan B: "No, it's not an official map."
Alternative:
Clan A: "Our map is spawninabox.bsp"
????
No beta maps. Thats all. And a few useless maps like spawninabox.
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I dont understand why people who are not playing this game voting for a offical maplist. Some american guys who arent that active anymore or not playing this game think they know what this game needs. I dont want to offend anyone of you but it is true. In my opinion we dont need something like that and it will make more players leave the game. And thats not only my opinion.
Thats the worst thing. I talked with some euro guys who arent registered on this forum and they think the same way as i do.
The list shouldn't be forced on anyone. If people want to host servers with other maps they should still be able to. Official maplist/servers are required if you want any kind of standard for competitive play or statistics though.
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As luckmore said, why do people who dont play anymore think they know what is the best for the game? Sure they have experience but maybe they should be a bit more active though, a game changes.
After a while it gets pretty boring to play always the same maps, like in bf3, where the only thing which keeps one playing are stats and assignments. In the beginning it is for sure better to start with a small mappool and easy maps but if you only have rather easy maps for matches aviable you cannot challenge yourself anymore and the matching scene will suffer from this.
Nobody would choose spawninabox as a matchmap since the spawn bug is fixed, but nice beta maps which arent in the maplist, will be forgotten soon. If you play some unknown map in a match it might be a spur to get better on it so you wont lose again. Maps can be integrated in this way.
The work of many talented mappers would be in vain. For speedserver its okay but for sure not for matches. One good thing about paintball is that you have such a big range of maps, with different game plays. I know that there will be servers with maps not from the list, but its something different to play on a pub.
It is better if there arent any changes in the matching scene, since it worked for so many years.
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I'm not sure why this "people who don't play anymore" argument keeps popping up. I believe a lot of the people who have been pushing for this are some of the most active players.
Spawninabox is obviously an extreme example, but where do you draw the line? What about maps like "uhn" or "erhm" or "uhm"... whatever it's called. Horribly unbalanced paths and base layouts, secret capture points, etc... no respectable competitive game would have maps like that.
I do agree that it's nice to have a large selection of maps, but I also think the line needs to be drawn somewhere.
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I'm not sure why this "people who don't play anymore" argument keeps popping up. I believe a lot of the people who have been pushing for this are some of the most active players.
Spawninabox is obviously an extreme example, but where do you draw the line? What about maps like "uhn" or "erhm" or "uhm"... whatever it's called. Horribly unbalanced paths and base layouts, secret capture points, etc... no respectable competitive game would have maps like that.
I do agree that it's nice to have a large selection of maps, but I also think the line needs to be drawn somewhere.
noone from euros wanted to have this maplist. And the americans? noone play from them anymore, just 1 or 2 clans. i dont understand why you are saying that the most active player were pushing it. Because most of the active players arent on this forum. And your examples are bad too, noone would choose this maps nowadays. The matches always worked good with all maps because the people arent that dumb and pick some unknown maps with supersecrets in it. You just arent matching and i think you dont understand it. And again i dont want to offend any of you. I hope you understood me.
In my opinion you should work on other things to improve this game and get more player to play. /I know you are busy and dont have enough time
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I don't think this map pool is a good idea for matches, unless if it is for tie as someone above mentioned. I don't think the match scene needs to be touched at all. The problem with the match scene is that no one is playing right now. Only way to fix that is to get new people to play it and stay with it and want to match. The new people aren't matching anyway; They just speed. People are just pissing and moaning about he match scene because they can't grow up and move on from this game. So they try to make ways for old players to come back. Focus should be on new players staying. I'm sure you must have stats on how many people who create an account, actually play more than one time. I bet it's very few.
*Cough HORDE MODE*
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I dont want to offend you but I am wondering why you are wasting your time with this "idea" . I know you are busy but if you have freetime you shouldnt work on this but on the things which are mentioned in your post what you should work in 2013. Dont try to change matching scene if it worked in the past years.
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I dont want to offend you but I am wondering why you are wasting your time with this "idea" . I know you are busy but if you have freetime you shouldnt work on this but on the things which are mentioned in your post what you should work in 2013. Dont try to change matching scene if it worked in the past years.
I think the end-goal is to create an "Official" league or something.
I don't play many other fps games, so I will use LoL as a comparison.
Think of the current DP matches as LoL scrims (custom games).
Once official maplist/servers are in place it would be possible to have an official match. Results would be tracked which gives the opportunity to make a leaderboard/standings/statistics. Think of this like ranked 5s in LoL.
Nothing would stop you from matching the way you currently do. It would just add an "Official/Certified" option.
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luckmore: I just matched on that map a few weeks ago. It's really popular with Brazilian players, I think... for some reason...
Foxhound: I agree that we should be focusing on getting new players to stay, and I think a solid list of high-quality official maps will help with that.
Nye: No offense taken. I'm glad you're providing feedback. It doesn't really take a long time to make a forum post, and I want to get this started sooner rather than later because it's going to be a gradual process that will take a while.
Superman: I think that explains it pretty well. Any features related to stats and ranking would not work very well with the hodegpodge mess of maps we have now. Like I said, if both clans agree, you're welcome to continue matching as you have been. It doesn't really change that for unofficial, untracked maps.
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noone from euros wanted to have this maplist.
I would appreciate if you speak for yourself.
I think it's great idea. It should be done if we want ranking system to be implemented.
I don't understand people who complain about it. I'm sure most of the clans would agree for playing decent map which isn't in official maplist.
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If that is how it's going to be used, its not for "matching" its for "matchmaking" its where newbies can be put into a 5v5 match with other people based on their rank. Not used as a tool for us old school players so we don't have to worry about map choice.
I just recently played a game Super Monday Night Combat. Very small community is on it just like DP. Matchmaking takes 7 minutes and that's if you include euro servers. This is frustrating when you just want to play.
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O_o
Chill...he's giving you the option to host whatever type of match you want to. You just won't be able to boost your stats by playing some new, terrible map that no other clans know. And on the rare occasion that you DO actually find/make a good map , it's not like you won't be able to vote it to the official map list for new builds.
Why would you not want a stat system that accurately represents skill level, rather than your ability to pick an unknown map for an easy win?
I honestly don't see how it could hurt at all....as long as it leads to a ranking system and a more organized matching experience.
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Who needs to chill?
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I think its pretty good idea. Although, people still need to have oppurtunity to play non-oficial maps. I would say, this would give new form of real/fun matches.
Real matches would be tracked with statistics etc. and fun matches would be just maplist-free matches.
Also, i think people wont accept this unless its presented along "league" system. Basically what would this do is reduce maps that would be played in matches for NO reason -> fewer players wanna play.
Honestly, I really like this idea of real/fun match, but it needs some improvements. IMO, with league system it would be great way to get (hopefully) players to play this game again.
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I think its pretty good idea. Although, people still need to have oppurtunity to play non-oficial maps. I would say, this would give new form of real/fun matches.
Real matches would be tracked with statistics etc. and fun matches would be just maplist-free matches.
Also, i think people wont accept this unless its presented along "league" system. Basically what would this do is reduce maps that would be played in matches for NO reason -> fewer players wanna play.
Honestly, I really like this idea of real/fun match, but it needs some improvements. IMO, with league system it would be great way to get (hopefully) players to play this game again.
That would be cool.
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Basically what would this do is reduce maps that would be played in matches for NO reason -> fewer players wanna play.
Obviously it is for a reason. The maplist is a great idea. Better quality map = better quality game/playing. It can only improve the game.
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I really like the idea, this would be a first step to improve the matchingscene.
The next step is to make consistent rules for matching.
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I really like the idea, this would be a first step to improve the matchingscene.
The next step is to make consistent rules for matching.
We've needed this for a long long time....
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If I wanted my maps to be included in the approved maplist, would they need to be out of beta? The requirements state they will need to be GPL'd for the community (i assume .map sharing on the downloads page)
Additionally, how will new maps be made and tested? Is the mapping committee going to be given the power to "approve" maps, or will there be a community vote to add new maps ever few months? Will match servers actually restrict map choices, or will games played with unofficial maps be labeled as "scrims"?
- Cusoman
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Cuso: The general idea I had was this:
Every month or two, we would have a vote for map to become an official map. This map could be a beta map or a map with a lot of issues but good gameplay potential. During the next month or so (while the next map vote is going on), we would take the top map and work on fixing every issue and make it as good as possible. This will likely be a full community effort. Ideally, we will have clans doing trial matches on each iteration of the map and providing feedback for improvements. We might see about having some source control option for the map editing so more than one person can work on it. The GPL requirement is there for a couple reasons:
a) I'm trying to make all of the content GPL compatible.
b) If a bug is discovered in the map later, or something needs to be changed for some reason, the map source would be necessary to fix it well.
Match servers probably won't restrict the maps, but potential future features, such as ranking, will probably only work on official maps. I'm not sure what the extent will be, but I wanted to get this started soon since it's probably going to take a year or two to build up a decent list of maps.
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Better looking maps = new players playing the game rather than quitting off looks
Smaller amounts of maps played (hopefully, assuming ranking comes out making people wanting to play maps that affect ranking more often) = new players learn new maps easier, don't get lost each time they open a server. (I only played Syncmasters cable when I started, cause ub_cliff was the only map I knew, getting lost isn't fun).
Teams using the official maplist to match = teams focusing on improving on specific maps, rather than moving to new maps. Hopefully in the long run makes teams actually need teamwork to win, since there will be no map advantage.
I don't see any downside. I argued for this before, most people were against it. Most games don't have as many maps as DP has. That's why DP matching requires no real communicating other than recon. It'll increase competitiveness, it'll lead to better things like stats/rankings, it'll help new players learn the game if it's on pub servers, it'll make the game have nicer quality maps that most mappers are to lazy to do themselves.
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very nice idea, will help this game a lot. And maybe there should be some special dir for the official maps and the "custom" maps. Also it would give the mapping community some boost as every mapper will want his map to be approved they will work harder. I think this really should have high priority as it also gives new mappers some idea how good maps look like.
But i think some old maps could also be somehow "approved". Maps like ub_rooftop or bankrob with real mapping quality could also be played on "classic" servers or similarly.
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Why would it take so much time? We only have to make a vote on the existing maps and pick the best. This is never going to take 1 or 2 years.
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I think this is a great idea a good step in the right direction not going mention all the points above because they have been mentioned but I agree this will help keep new players around. I for one am glad that there will be map shots, map info and other nesisarry files available with the official maps a step in the right direction.
I have a question though.
Will the map list(s) contain maps of other game modes other than ctf like KOTH and DM for example? I think it would be cool to see more game types; we already have potential in this area IE. there is no need to code in to make new game modes happen but they are not utilised enough In my opinion.
Also if a map is disliked by speed and pub players for example - like they keep leaving every time the map is on will it be removed for newer maps? Will there be a rotation to keep the game fresh?
Obviously not very often that would defeat the purpose.
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Why would it take so much time? We only have to make a vote on the existing maps and pick the best. This is never going to take 1 or 2 years.
Take a look at some of the maps played regularly that are potential candidates for the official map list.
Now look at some maps from some other shooters that are popular right now.
Does that answer your question? It's more than just selecting maps. We need to really raise the bar on map quality as well. Sure, we won't be able to make it look as nice as BF3, but it's still possible to do a lot better with the tech we have, and at least make it so new players aren't immediately turned off.
Also, it will be a while before there's anything that really needs an official map list, so there's no sense in rushing it.
Speaking of voting, only 2 people have voted so far. Here's the thread for that (also linked in the first post):
http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=25978
omni: Once we get a large enough list of maps, we will probably cycle through and replace maps that get included with the game release, but I imagine once a map is officially accepted for ranking/stats/etc., it will still be available for official stat-tracked play, unless we just find the map too problematic for some reason and decide to completely remove it.
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totaly dont understand this idea, if u want to win a match u must win at least 2 maps- so u can simply ff the enemies map if u don´t like it. and as u all know the tie map must be accepted by both teams, so why do u want to stop the "map making progress"?
why should anyone of this community work on a map if he knows it wont be played bcuz of this maplist thread...
sorry but in my oppinion thats totaly nonsense.
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totaly dont understand this idea, if u want to win a match u must win at least 2 maps- so u can simply ff the enemies map if u don´t like it. and as u all know the tie map must be accepted by both teams, so why do u want to stop the "map making progress"?
why should anyone of this community work on a map if he knows it wont be played bcuz of this maplist thread...
sorry but in my oppinion thats totaly nonsense.
It forces people to make better quality maps... which is what we need in this game. Not SHAZAM55
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who decides which maps is good and which one not? its simple, about a year ago some clan called kaguya or sth always picked lockout vs us, at first we just ff´d it, but as soon as we started playing it vs them we got better and better on that map, nowadays i beat em on this map and to be honest sometimes i like it to play lockout, so why dont u wanna give such maps a chance? im sure much ppl dont like lockout and dont want to play on this map, but for other players its fun though.
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If you want to continue matching as before, on any maps, all you need to do is say "we don't want to only use official maps this match" and then they say "ok" or "no".
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if they say no? gg! it´ll get so boring after a few weeks or months. can´t call this matching as before.
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if they say no? gg! it´ll get so boring after a few weeks or months. can´t call this matching as before.
Well if, like you say, everyone still wants to play all the maps, they won't say "no"... I don't think this map list should be enforced, but it should at least exist, to be an option, for clans to agree upon. Also, because none of the maps are suitable for the list yer (see other thread), for the first few months (or probably years given at the pace this game progresses) it just means that there will be new refurbished maps appearing, there will not be a usable official map list.
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When is this going to be implemented to a game? I can't stand matching on maps like freedom. It wouldn't be a problem if those players would agree for normal map for tie. Obviously some people can't/don't want to play on good balanced maps.
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If this will be combined with some league it would be totally okay but not if it is only for matches.
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Think people should go look at dream_b1 because I think people know it by what they see not the .bsp name
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A little round up so far:
-When 'OR' was stated, I just put a vote down for each.
-This is just to get a rough idea of the popular voted maps.
pbcup_pforest - 11
carpathian - 10
castle1 - 9
propaint1 - 9
airtime - 8
nml - 7
pbcup_sassault - 7
shazam22 - 7
pbcup_renoir - 6
destiny - 5
green_park_b4 - 5
propaint2 - 5
prolandr - 4
rome - 4
sroads_b3 - 4
grave - 3
mystique - 3
oth - 3
pbcup - 3
pbcup_pbsanctuary - 3
twiling_b3 - 3
wobluda - 3
zpar11_beta - 3
cream - 2
crimethink - 2
freedom - 2
macabre - 2
shazamr - 2
shock - 2
sphouse - 2
theraden_b2 - 2
tlc - 2
ub_abbey - 2
ub_columbia - 2
zephyrus_b6 - 2
1day - 1
airtime2 - 1
airtime3 - 1
ccc - 1
crossroad99 - 1
cya - 1
dream_b1 - 1
duck_fix - 1
hmpf - 1
insight_b3 - 1
italy - 1
jinious_b2 - 1
jump - 1
krakatit_b3 - 1
litt - 1
london - 1
midnight - 1
moonlit2r1 - 1
nhb - 1
nonturno - 1
northmines - 1
perfugio - 1
pbcup_2fort5 - 1
rallyr_b1 - 1
remmenissions - 1
sanctum_b4 - 1
sanctum_inner - 1
sandtrap - 1
sassault4 - 1
slippery - 1
snowbong - 1
tatras - 1
ub_cliff - 1
ub_rooftop - 1
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urbann_b4
wobluda
carpathian
green_park_b4
airtime3
london
proppaint1 (Was there also a propaint2 & 3?)
prolandr
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I don't get how my comment about dream_b1 was deleted but not that crap up there....
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I don't get how my comment about dream_b1 was deleted but not that crap up there....
It was in the vote thread, I moved my post here :)
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OoOoooOOOoOOooOoOOo makes sense now. i was going to say, there werent any rules on the front page now. I was confuzzled
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Thanks for the tally, Rick.
I'd really like to get some more votes. It's such a small sample right now. Just 1 page of posts.
Go here and vote if you haven't:
http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=25978.0
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urbann_b4
wobluda
carpathian
green_park_b4
airtime3
london
proppaint1 (Was there also a propaint2 & 3?)
prolandr
Oops! Did I post that in the wrong thread? Should I re-post in the vote thread?
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Post votes in the vote thread. This thread is for discussion.
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This has probably already been said, but I am concerned that cheaters will ruin people's stats.
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This has probably already been said, but I am concerned that cheaters will ruin people's stats.
When Jitspoe does implement an online stats system, I have no doubt that he will have measures to stop cheaters.
What is everyones view on the top 20ish?
pbcup_pforest - 11
carpathian - 10
castle1 - 9
propaint1 - 9
airtime - 8
nml - 7
pbcup_sassault - 7
shazam22 - 7
pbcup_renoir - 6
destiny - 5
green_park_b4 - 5
propaint2 - 5
prolandr - 4
rome - 4
sroads_b3 - 4
grave - 3
mystique - 3
oth - 3
pbcup - 3
pbcup_pbsanctuary - 3
twiling_b3 - 3
wobluda - 3
zpar11_beta - 3
It seems to be (PRO > NOOB) at the moment. If we could get people from pubs to come on the forums and give a vote, I think we would have a better range of data.
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People from pubs? Don't you mean speed? :D
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It seems to be (PRO > NOOB) at the moment. If we could get people from pubs to come on the forums and give a vote, I think we would have a better range of data.
Given the population on the forums, that's not surprising. I wonder what a good way to get more visibility to newer players would be.
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People from pubs? Don't you mean speed? :D
Speed Servers are Public servers ;)
Given the population on the forums, that's not surprising. I wonder what a good way to get more visibility to newer players would be.
Maybe implement "Server-wide Announcements".
-You set a message. eg. ("Vote for official maps at dplogin.com/forums! \n Otherwise your favourite maps may be gone!")
-It gets displayed in every server every hour or two.
Or, add a "News" popup when you exit, or start the game. (Kind of like Steam?).
Just a few ideas :)
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Speed Servers are Public servers ;)
Maybe implement "Server-wide Announcements".
-You set a message. eg. ("Vote for official maps at dplogin.com/forums! \n Otherwise your favourite maps may be gone!")
-It gets displayed in every server every hour or two.
Or, add a "News" popup when you exit, or start the game. (Kind of like Steam?).
Just a few ideas :)
or when the map is loading; have the server-wide announcement there.
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or when the map is loading; have the server-wide announcement there.
Actually an alright idea.
Jitspoe, what are your thoughts on the current maps voted on? What would you vote for?
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In a way, I was kind of hoping for a poorly constructed/incomplete map with good game play to rise to the top so we could revamp it. The visual improvements that could be made to something like carpathian or pbcup_pforest are kind of minimal, without altering the map format. Other changes to make the map more accessible might be a bit controversial. For example, the back path in carpathian requires doing the "castle1 bd jump", but that only makes sense if you've played the game for a while and you're familiar with that jump. If you step back and imagine seeing that path the first time you've ever played this game, it really makes no sense. There's also the high middle area. It wasn't really designed to be crossed (DT added clip brushes), but with certain trick jumps, it's possible to get around that. Should it be "fixed" to make that impossible, or should the path be made more easily accessible to all players? If it should be blocked off, there needs to be a better solution than invisible clip walls (fences or something?) so there's a visual, intuitive explanation for why you can't get across.
There are lots of things about DT maps in general that make them really inaccessible to new players, but experienced players might feel the map would be "ruined" if they were altered.
So... I have mixed feelings. Not sure how best to approach some of these.
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How many maps will make the official maplist?
IMO if there is room for 25 or less, we should vary the styles of the maps so that we don't end up with 20 relatively similar maps. We don't really need 6 different DT maps.
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Well once someone can make better maps then DT we wont need 6 different dt maps. The problem is they have all been played by the better players for so long the new maps dont even have a chance really....
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It seems to be (PRO > NOOB) at the moment. If we could get people from pubs to come on the forums and give a vote, I think we would have a better range of data.
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The noobs dont stick around long enough to make it to the forums thats why its more PRO > NOOB
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That makes no sense certain people join the forums people who have played this game for a long time don't always go to the forums people who have played for like 3 weeks join the forums (Deathstar7 for example) the value of 'noobs' is underestimated because they are the ones who give most accurate feedback as to how the game needs to be changed, because they are new to the game.
The problem is they have all been played by the better players for so long the new maps don't even have a chance really....
As in my point above better players aren't the most important always, not with a community this small
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I guess, but they DON'T give feedback. Deathstar7 is ONE EXAMPLE, the majority of the players who post on the forums are NOT new. Yes the community is small which is why it is ran by the more "pro", "popular" players. I've tried to help a lot of new players. Most just don't understand or disappear to quick to help. It gets frustrating which is why a lot of "pros" don't bother helping anymore.
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(Deathstar7 for example)
Deathstar7 is ONE EXAMPLE
;D I wonder what Deathstar will think of this...
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Thats fair maybe the forum isn't the place for new players though, people don't always feel confident posting on here as a 'noob' I know I certainly didn't.
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My guess would be that the reason why 'noobs' arent respected here is because they cant provide enough reasoning behind their feedback. They might have some ideas, which in their minds would be cool, but they lack the experience to actually realise if it would work or not. While 'pros' can actually think if this would be good for 'noobs', 'noobs' cant do that. So there is obvious lack of angle of view.
Also maybe they dont know to post properly, they just throw down an idea and expect people to actually get caught in it and support them (i think this might work in other games, but here the community is too tight and is rly strict about which ideas likes ^^).
And here i thought of another problem, our mindset. 'Pros' are trying to keep game alive with suggestions/posts they make, while 'noobs' dont realise this so they are just going for the simple things, which they enjoy. And maybe we kinda dont like them for that, because they arent helping to keep this game alive, they arent doing the right thing -> we dont like them posting.
Just realised this is one hell of offtopic, well not gonna delete it ^^, leme just get back ontopic.
I think this maplist idea finally getting somewhere is rly good, i hope everything works out for it fine. And with the statistics working, that would be even better stuff for this game.
Although, i think its really important to set some number on how big the maplist will be, because either we want to just seperate good maps from the bad ones or our goal is to slowly get there as much maps as possible. Like if this is supposed to help maps in pb or just matching scene or both. I think there are quite some point of views on this and i think it would be better to make sure what is actual goal of this (maybe it was already said lol, if so i am sorry for bringing it back, but there were 4 pages and i was too lazy to read through all the comments, i just skipped through them briefly).
Also i have a technical (i guess?) idea, if you need to distinguish certified maps, you could just make another folder for them like you did with beta maps. I think it would be pretty decent solution so they dont get mixed up with non-certified maps, but there might be some downside i havent thought of, so think about it.
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One downside I can foresee with having an official maplist, especially if it's small, is that there will be whining and crying that so-and-so map isn't on the list and that so-and-so map doesn't deserve to be on the official maplist.
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One downside I can foresee with having an official maplist, especially if it's small, is that there will be whining and crying that so-and-so map isn't on the list and that so-and-so map doesn't deserve to be on the official maplist.
The idea was to add a new map to the list every month or two, so if enough people think a map should be added, they can vote for it, and maybe it will get added next month.
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Its this actually in discussion? I hope this happens soon.
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The idea was to add a new map to the list every month or two, so if enough people think a map should be added, they can vote for it, and maybe it will get added next month.
OK that makes sense.
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The idea was to add a new map to the list every month or two, so if enough people think a map should be added, they can vote for it, and maybe it will get added next month.
Could run it like a euro soccer league. Running ranking of a large list of maps. The top 25 or so make into the maplist for the next month, the bottom 25 or so stay in the lower rank, but are still in the large pool. After every month the lowest 2 or 3 from the top 25 move down, and the top 2 or 3 of the pool move up into the top 25. Just an idea.
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When will the official maplist be implemented? jitspoe should focus on this when the new bot AI comes.
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The other important thing is that there are a lot of really old, good maps out there of which nobody's ever heard because the people from that time period have gone inactive and those maps have been replaced by newer maps that may or may not be just as good. A solution to this problem is that jitspoe has always been active since this game was founded, so he could start an old school server with only old maps that were popular back in the day but have faded. Then, these maps will be rediscovered by the new population and are more likely to be considered when the official maplist is implemented.
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The other important thing is that there are a lot of really old, good maps out there of which nobody's ever heard because the people from that time period have gone inactive and those maps have been replaced by newer maps that may or may not be just as good. A solution to this problem is that jitspoe has always been active since this game was founded, so he could start an old school server with only old maps that were popular back in the day but have faded. Then, these maps will be rediscovered by the new population and are more likely to be considered when the official maplist is implemented.
... Or he could just change the rotation to his EV1-Alt Pub server a little by adding in the older maps you want in and run the same server.
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Baseball dude I could do this I've been around just as long, Prozak old school inc.
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Oh I remember those servers! NYC Old School! Woot!
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Oh I remember those servers! NYC Old School! Woot!
Yes sir, ill be home in an hour and ill set then up. Lazers can you send me your pub cfg to clanprozak@aol.com, thanks.
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Yes sir, ill be home in an hour and ill set then up. Lazers can you send me your pub cfg to [censored], thanks.
If you don't want this mail to be invaded with spam, you better remove it.
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I never use it anyways. It's public on the servers, any my profile anyways. But thanks for being concerned, merry Xmas payl.
Not trolling just being nice for the holidays, hope Santa brings you everything you want!
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I never use it anyways. It's public on the servers, any my profile anyways. But thanks for being concerned, merry Xmas payl.
Not trolling just being nice for the holidays, hope Santa brings you everything you want!
Thanks Clipz, merry Xmas to you too :) .
Alright, enough offtopic.
New idea for map to add: http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=26711.msg242080;boardseen#new - I really like how this map looks A LOT, as it has style that all new maps should have (rather than trying to be realistic, be fun, so we don't run into troubles with older graphics engine, and still look great).
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... Or he could just change the rotation to his EV1-Alt Pub server a little by adding in the older maps you want in and run the same server.
http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=23076.0
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New idea for map to add: http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=26711.msg242080;boardseen#new - I really like how this map looks A LOT, as it has style that all new maps should have (rather than trying to be realistic, be fun, so we don't run into troubles with older graphics engine, and still look great).
I loved the idea of the map, it was something unique and fun to look at. Though, the gameplay wasn't the greatest and it wasn't too fun to play.