Digital Paint Discussion Board
Development => Mapping => Topic started by: twilightsparkl on May 20, 2013, 10:49:21 AM
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Do clip brushes seal off leaks? I have my map sealed 100% I triple checked and there are not leaks. Some of it is sealed off with clip brushes. It keeps saying ****leaked****...
When I try to open my leak line file it crashes bsp...I don't what to do...
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no clip brushes don't get rendered or w/e while compiling they do not fix leaks, you need a solid brush not a clip brush.
When I try to open my leak line file it crashes bsp...I don't what to do...
something might be wrong with ur .lin file it happened to me once, quite annoying..
I have no idea how to fix it either.. I think you have to open it as a text document or something..
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So I open in Notepad then what?
Anyway I don't want a solid brush its an outdoor map. If I make a solid brush and use no draw then it makes stuff invisible that it is in front of and also players can't shoot through it.
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As already said, use solid brushes instead of clip brushes to close your map. Sky
brushes should work, too.
For the leak check you can try this bsp version:
ftp://otb-server.de/pub/BSP%20-%20Map%20Editor/BSP_setup.exe (ftp://otb-server.de/pub/BSP%20-%20Map%20Editor/BSP_setup.exe)
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So I open in Notepad then what?
Anyway I don't want a solid brush its an outdoor map. If I make a solid brush and use no draw then it makes stuff invisible that it is in front of and also players can't shoot through it.
What are you trying to make?... there has to be an alternative if its the roof use sky but if you describe what you're using clip brushes for there might be an alternative.
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What are you trying to make?... there has to be an alternative if its the roof use sky but if you describe what you're using clip brushes for there might be an alternative.
My skybox does fix leaks but I though using big boxes around map was bad thing, when I remove the skybox i get leaks. I did a fastvis compile with skybox and i get high r_speeds even when im behind a single wall i get poly count of 2000.
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you dont use the sky all around your map, only on the top... it should go like this
Sky
___________
| |
| | Wall
| |
|__________|
Floor
and not like this
_______________________
| |
| Sky |
| ___________ |
| | | |
| | | Wall | <---- all sky
| | <--Leak |
| |__________| |
| | <-- This is what mappers call a skybox
| Floor |
|_____________________|
horrible diagram... lol
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This is what mappers call a skybox
Nah man... the skybox is the 'virtual' box that appears through sky textures :) That's just a box of sky :D
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The most efficient way is to replace the clip brushes with sky brushes. But if you want to shoot through them, then make a small skybox just around that particular area.
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That doesn't make sense to me right now, can you draw a picture or send a map file?
You can't shoot through a sky, so why would I put it on top of a wall, if say I have an open courtyard area? Currently my map has a a sky box around it, which is just a brush I made into a room brush. A room brush is just 6 block brushes forming a room, its not just one single brush. The skybox is hollow. Having a single brush as a skybox wouldn't work.
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If your map is "outdoors", then the "walls" would be sky brushes. However, that looks fugly, so usually, people put cliffs or other walls in the way, so the map doesn't abruptly stop.
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i'll just send you my map and tell me if im doing anything wrong.
thing is i did a fastvis compile and it didnt seem to reduce the r_speeds compared to a qbsp compile.
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Just replace your clip brushes with sky brushes and you should be good to go.
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clip brushes don*t close the leak.
as
- leak means that an entity can get out of the world.
- you can shoot trough a clip brush - paint entity gets outside = leak
thing is i did a fastvis compile and it didnt seem to reduce the r_speeds compared to a qbsp compile.
fastvis is not the best tool... use a normal vis, and i would recommend to use a final compile(depends on the power of your CPU/RAM) If the r_speeds are still high then you probably should have a look at the structure of your map again.
You can't shoot through a sky, so why would I put it on top of a wall, if say I have an open courtyard area? Currently my map has a a sky box around it, which is just a brush I made into a room brush. A room brush is just 6 block brushes forming a room, its not just one single brush. The skybox is hollow. Having a single brush as a skybox wouldn't work.
The skybox is not a room around your map... It sounds like you just put 6 sky brushes around your map. Just have a look at these testmaps.
If you jump down on test_bad you can see the skybox around you.
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Just replace your clip brushes with sky brushes and you should be good to go.
If I do that then people who happen to shoot upward will have their paint randomly bounce off an invisible ceiling.
Also I tried a final compile but it hung up. I will try again soon.
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When you say hung up, do you mean froze. Chances are it probably didn't it just takes a long time. Using bsp_sse2 or something like that; goes much quicker or it did for me.
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When you say hung up, do you mean froze. Chances are it probably didn't it just takes a long time. Using bsp_sse2 or something like that; goes much quicker or it did for me.
When you say hung up, do you mean froze. Chances are it probably didn't it just takes a long time. Using bsp_sse2 or something like that; goes much quicker or it did for me.
thanks ill try it
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If I do that then people who happen to shoot upward will have their paint randomly bounce off an invisible ceiling.
Also I tried a final compile but it hung up. I will try again soon.
The paint won't bounce, if it hits a sky brush it disappears. Why would people be firing up there anyway? If you want, you could put some glass in front of the sky brush.
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The paint won't bounce, if it hits a sky brush it disappears. Why would people be firing up there anyway? If you want, you could put some glass in front of the sky brush.
I don't want glass in front, I want it outdoors. And paintgrens bounce for some odd reason.
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Alright, you should really listen to the people that are trying to help you, they know what they're talking about.
So I downloaded your map and here is what I see;
-Many overlapped Brushes
-Very complex brushes (heavy on the r_speeds)
-The above combined.
-Over complicated brushes (Those that can be a single brush eg. Some of your walls).
-Incorrect use of Clip brushes.
-Many leaks.
What I recommend
(This is what I would do);
-Scrap this map.
-Have a look over tutorials.
-Learn some basic rules/how r_speeds are calculated.
-Make a very simple map, with very simple brushes.
-Start a Topic in the Mapping section and provide .map file.
-Ask for feedback on your technique in the same topic.
-Once you have your basic techniques down, move on to some harder techniques. Harder brushes. Harder structures, etc.
-In the same topic, update your first post within that topic to include this .map file and ask for feedback.
-Continue this.
-Once you have good technique, making maps that are very well structured, visually appealing and so on will become a breeze!
Well, that's my opinion anyway.
Some tips:
-Use the grid. It's there for a reason. Try not to stray to 1 unit.
-Detailing brushes will help reduce r_speeds.
-Clip brushes are used as 'invisible objects', in the sense that a player can't see it in game, but it will still stop you from going through it. Even though you can shoot through it. (Can't be used as something to block the inside of your map, from the outside of it(will produce a leak)).
-Sky Brushes; These are used to provide lighting and skies to your maps.
I also attached your map, with skies and a full compile done. Just so you know, a full compile won't work if you have leaks, which you did.
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What rick said. That all considered, I really like the architectural style in the map.
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Alright, you should really listen to the people that are trying to help you, they know what they're talking about.
So I downloaded your map and here is what I see;
-Many overlapped Brushes
-Very complex brushes (heavy on the r_speeds)
-The above combined.
-Over complicated brushes (Those that can be a single brush eg. Some of your walls).
-Incorrect use of Clip brushes.
-Many leaks.
What I recommend
(This is what I would do);
-Scrap this map.
-Have a look over tutorials.
-Learn some basic rules/how r_speeds are calculated.
-Make a very simple map, with very simple brushes.
-Start a Topic in the Mapping section and provide .map file.
-Ask for feedback on your technique in the same topic.
-Once you have your basic techniques down, move on to some harder techniques. Harder brushes. Harder structures, etc.
-In the same topic, update your first post within that topic to include this .map file and ask for feedback.
-Continue this.
-Once you have good technique, making maps that are very well structured, visually appealing and so on will become a breeze!
Well, that's my opinion anyway.
Some tips:
-Use the grid. It's there for a reason. Try not to stray to 1 unit.
-Detailing brushes will help reduce r_speeds.
-Clip brushes are used as 'invisible objects', in the sense that a player can't see it in game, but it will still stop you from going through it. Even though you can shoot through it. (Can't be used as something to block the inside of your map, from the outside of it(will produce a leak)).
-Sky Brushes; These are used to provide lighting and skies to your maps.
I also attached your map, with skies and a full compile done. Just so you know, a full compile won't work if you have leaks, which you did.
Thanks for the compile, I know I am somewhat newb but I am trying to listen to other people's opinions, there are a couple of things I don't understand or agree with though, like putting a skybrush directly on a wall, since it will have odd effects like dissapearing paintballs and bouncing grens. And yes its filled with complex brushes, it's supposed to look like a q3 quality map. Unless you think the gameplay is terrible I don't want to scrap this map. I do use the grid also. and I have mapped two other maps which are much simpler than this one. =)
PS: Is there something wrong with overlapped brushes, and can I see the map file you did so I can learn what I did wrong? Where exactly were the leaks? Did I have leaks besides the clip brushes?
and vicouz thanks for liking the style
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PS: Is there something wrong with overlapped brushes, and can I see the map file you did so I can learn what I did wrong?
Yes it is. Overlapping brushes are bad mapping style and cause high r_speeds and graphic bugs(not always). Just learn to avoid them
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But in this case would subdividing them via subtract be any faster?
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dont use that substract tool too often, it makes everything far too complicated.
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dont use that substract tool too often, it makes everything far too complicated.
but if i dont use the subtract, i end up with overlapping brushes...so which is worse?
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Some overlap is OK, but you should never have 2 faces that overlap.
Example:
|\
| \____
| |\___|
|___\
OK overlap. The compiler will delete the polygons that are inside of a solid brush:
|\
| \____
| ___|
|___\
Bad overlap:
._____
|_|___|
| |
| |
| |
|_|
The compiler will delete the polygons that are inside of the solid brush, however, there will be two polygons rendered on the top and top left where the brushes overlap. To fix that, make the brushes like this:
._____
|\____|
| |
| |
| |
|_|
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but if i dont use the subtract, i end up with overlapping brushes...so which is worse?
use your brains and mapping skills.
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Some overlap is OK, but you should never have 2 faces that overlap.
Example:
|\
| \____
| |\___|
|___\
OK overlap. The compiler will delete the polygons that are inside of a solid brush:
|\
| \____
| ___|
|___\
Bad overlap:
._____
|_|___|
| |
| |
| |
|_|
The compiler will delete the polygons that are inside of the solid brush, however, there will be two polygons rendered on the top and top left where the brushes overlap. To fix that, make the brushes like this:
._____
|\____|
| |
| |
| |
|_|
thanks that was really helpful.
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Thanks for the compile, I know I am somewhat newb but I am trying to listen to other people's opinions, there are a couple of things I don't understand or agree with though, like putting a skybrush directly on a wall, since it will have odd effects like dissapearing paintballs and bouncing grens. And yes its filled with complex brushes, it's supposed to look like a q3 quality map. Unless you think the gameplay is terrible I don't want to scrap this map. I do use the grid also. and I have mapped two other maps which are much simpler than this one. =)
PS: Is there something wrong with overlapped brushes, and can I see the map file you did so I can learn what I did wrong? Where exactly were the leaks? Did I have leaks besides the clip brushes?
and vicouz thanks for liking the style
Well, I thought you said you didn't want the paintballs to bounce off it? So what do you want to happen to them?
If I do that then people who happen to shoot upward will have their paint randomly bounce off an invisible ceiling.
Well, I haven't played quake3 before, but I doubt they overlap a bunch of complex brushes. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
You can keep the map, but it's probably going to be just as easy to start over with the same idea, using better techniques. Resulting in a better map.
Well, I'd keep practicing to be honest! You've got more stuff to learn :)
Like Jitspoe has posted; You have multiple brushes within brushes, imagine what that is doing to the compiler :P
I'll attach the map, all I did was what others suggested. (Don't put clip brushes where sky brushes should be).
Oh, your leaks WERE THE CLIP BRUSHES. Clip brushes aren't visible! They're just like trans33/66 brushes, you can see through them. The basic rule of thumb is that you aren't allowed to see the 'space' or 'outside map' or 'blurry stuff' (aka holes in your map) which are considered leaks! Just think of it as filling your map with water, will water leak out some place where only a player can be blocked (clip brush)? Yes.
But in this case would subdividing them via subtract be any faster?
Please don't use subtract. Sometimes it works well, and as expected. The other times it makes the brush you're subtracting WAY over complex. Have a look at this example (http://i.imgur.com/RxfoyiR.png) (Very simple example). The one on the right has been subtracted, one on the left I made. From it, you can see that the subtract tool doesn't pick the best brush, rather it splits it into multiple brushes.
but if i dont use the subtract, i end up with overlapping brushes...so which is worse?
In most cases, you'd be able to avoid both. It's not really a case of choosing either, please provide some details and I'll try to help you on this one. (Maybe provide me with a sample map?).
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Well, I thought you said you didn't want the paintballs to bounce off it? So what do you want to happen to them?
I wish it just acted like a normal sky, where stuff doesn't collide with it. Would setting it to mist work?
Well, I haven't played quake3 before, but I doubt they overlap a bunch of complex brushes. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
I mean the archetectural style that only the player sees.
You can keep the map, but it's probably going to be just as easy to start over with the same idea, using better techniques. Resulting in a better map.
Maybe better r_speeds but I see no reason to start over unless you have concrete gameplay or archetectural changes in mind that I should do.
Well, I'd keep practicing to be honest! You've got more stuff to learn :)
I hope not too much is left to learn! =P
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I wish it just acted like a normal sky, where stuff doesn't collide with it. Would setting it to mist work?
No same as clip just not transparant and players can walk trough. Would leak
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I've never actually tried sealing a map with a mist brush... I know they can block visibility, so it's possible they could seal a map...