Digital Paint Discussion Board
Fairness Enforcement => Cheater Reports and Bans => Topic started by: LaZeRs on March 08, 2014, 08:57:29 PM
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From this:
1) I think the community should get to know what people get banned for. I understand why we don't - because if the person doesn't know what was detected they could give in things that they weren't detected on - but after 'x' days the chance should be gone, and the community should be able to know what exactly the person used. Cheat/Mod is very vague, and could mean many different things.
So, what things can get a player banned?
What are your opinions?
What do you think about the current contacting system?
Any other things on the topic you'd like to speak about?
I can add a list of things that can get a player banned if wanted.
Speak up! Thanks!
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Players should be banned for cheats/mods that give them a clear advantage when using them that they wouldn't have when playing legit.
Players should be banned for using non-official textures in competitive matching (it's fine in pubs and speeds).
Players should be banned for excessive and exclusive trolling in forums (people like MyeRs are fine because he does a few stuffs to help the community even though his trolling is out of con-troll, whereas Suzuki Wong did nothing besides troll deadfroggy and thus deserved to be banned).
Players should be banned for using any scripts in competitive, organized tournaments (it's acceptable in non-extreme cases in side stuff like pickup 2s) without jitspoe and/or the head of the tournament's approval.
Players should be banned for repeatedly and unnecessarily evading the swear filter (such as ascra's racist rant against lazers).
Players' bans should be shortened if they confess when questioned.
Players' bans should be lengthened if they deny it and try to evade investigations
Players should not be banned if there is not reasonable evidence that they did something to deserve a ban.
Jitspoe should hire a trustworthy assistant to handle the bans so that he could focus on development.
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Myers' quote seems to be asking to display what a player was banned for, not what can get a player banned :P
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Myers' quote seems to be asking to display what a player was banned for, not what can get a player banned :P
I guess I took it that way, but I the community would know what gets them banned so they don't have to argue if the ban is right or not and so they'd know before committing the crime what not to do in DP. It's kind of like a list of DP rules that if disobeyed would result in a ban.
And thanks for the numerous suggestions, BASEBALLDUDE.
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I want to know in a case by case manner - instead of: "Cheat/Mod Detected" - I want to know what they used. I think the community should be able to know. But, it's not a right to know, just a preference. (That's what the line you quoted is asking)
I think what can get a player banned is self explanatory. Cheating/Modifying/Multiple accounts. The issue is modifying becomes subjective in regards to textures - but use Jitspoe's pack, don't download cheats, have 1 acc per person and BAM never banned.
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You have a point. But for the people who cheat, they always want to know what they used (even though they most likely fake their objections and are just being stupid). Or for the people who used texture packs, they want to know why said texture pack is a bannable offense.
This thread was just to create a more specific view into what people can and can't use in this game.
I also think that after a period of time, Jitspoe/committee should announce what they did to get banned. (If the banned player doesn't admit what they used)
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Reason: Make better anti-cheat. (I'm not sayin this one is bad as hell, but it can be more better). Anti-cheat which can separate bans for textures, another modifyed content, and cheats.
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I guess I took it that way, but I the community would know what gets them banned so they don't have to argue if the ban is right or not and so they'd know before committing the crime what not to do in DP. It's kind of like a list of DP rules that if disobeyed would result in a ban.
It's common sense, really :/
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It's common sense, really :/
/GG. Solo'd.
Let me ask you. Since your the a member of this community. What do you think is something that will result in a ban? Like Rick pointed out, its really commen sense but I like to add to that: ethics as well.
Reason: Make better anti-cheat. (I'm not sayin this one is bad as hell, but it can be more better). Anti-cheat which can separate bans for textures, another modifyed content, and cheats.
Why do you people not understand this. I just explained it in Streems troll thread, it does. Sadly most people here underestimate it. The cheat detection clearly tells jitspoe WHERE the hack/file/modification/textures are located and WHEN they were used. I don't know how clear I have to state this.
Jitspoe should hire a trustworthy assistant to handle the bans so that he could focus on development.
I nominate Payl, Clipz( if he wants to), MyeRs( if he wants to) and Myself. l0l
I want to know in a case by case manner - instead of: "Cheat/Mod Detected" - I want to know what they used. I think the community should be able to know. But, it's not a right to know, just a preference. (That's what the line you quoted is asking)
I think what can get a player banned is self explanatory. Cheating/Modifying/Multiple accounts. The issue is modifying becomes subjective in regards to textures - but use Jitspoe's pack, don't download cheats, have 1 acc per person and BAM never banned.
Um like the idea. How about once the investigation is done, report it to the ban thread so other players can take a look at that. If other players are using those "insert here" than they should be discourged to use it and will most like remove the "insert here".
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I want to know in a case by case manner - instead of: "Cheat/Mod Detected" - I want to know what they used. I think the community should be able to know. But, it's not a right to know, just a preference. (That's what the line you quoted is asking)
Are you talking about the actual name of the cheat, or whether it was a wall/speed/aimbot/etc sort of hack?
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Are you talking about the actual name of the cheat, or whether it was a wall/speed/aimbot/etc sort of hack?
See I asumed it was names(for texture only). But names(for hacks) would encourage downloads.
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See I asumed it was names(for texture only). But names(for hacks) would encourage downloads.
That's what I'd agree with. Modified content I assume wouldn't have a name anyway, unless it's something like a texture pack. But also for hacks, names would also allow creation of a list of hacks that are detectable, and hence more attempts at finding ones that aren't.
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I want to know in a case by case manner - instead of: "Cheat/Mod Detected" - I want to know what they used.
This is exactly what Jitspoe needs to know: What did they use. By not publishing this data, he forces the banned player to come clean about it. By publishing all data in advance, there is nothing to come clean about and players will just end up with the longer bantimes.
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Well, it's obviously common sense. That's why most bans happen: no common sense.
It could just be useful to things like textures. This thread informs people of what not to do in this game.
If people know what they can and can't do in this game, then they are less likely to do bad things.
But I see that you guys may see this differently than I do, so speak for yourselves.
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Why do you people not understand this. I just explained it in Streems troll thread, it does. Sadly most people here underestimate it. The cheat detection clearly tells jitspoe WHERE the hack/file/modification/textures are located and WHEN they were used. I don't know how clear I have to state this.
This is not true, jitspoe anticheat does not gather information after detection (like PAC did, collect hashes and other important states if something went unexpected). jitspoe anticheat is as simple as this: If X<>Y then Write_To_Jitspoe(Z); So if something is not as should be, code (identifier of what gone wrong) is sent to jitspoe (and jitspoe adds IP/Account/Time at server).
I nominate Payl, Clipz( if he wants to), MyeRs( if he wants to) and Myself. l0l
Thanks for putting me at front, I'm obviously best and should be banned first.
Are you talking about the actual name of the cheat, or whether it was a wall/speed/aimbot/etc sort of hack?
Hint: Aimbot won't ever happen, since jitspoe can only detect ratbot (which doesn't work anyway) when it comes to aimbots.
Also, jitspoe rarely can tell what cheat was exactly used unless people sent him this info.
See I asumed it was names(for texture only). But names(for hacks) would encourage downloads.
It's detectable SO LET'S ALL USE IT!
Seriously, this is just being stupid, we should catch those people at registering account and auto-perm-ban them.
That's what I'd agree with. Modified content I assume wouldn't have a name anyway, unless it's something like a texture pack. But also for hacks, names would also allow creation of a list of hacks that are detectable, and hence more attempts at finding ones that aren't.
Detectable: Anything written for Q2 (since we have changed protocol), anything that tempers with time related callbacks to windows (i.e. speedhacks). WHs that doesn't protect their states are also detectable (like: Old versions of PAC which were interfering with testw), and there is screenshot system, don't play with committee. Anything other is pretty much not detectable.
Seriously, I could just get list of "bad" programs from server code, but why bother doing that? It's already very easy, you can't get much easier than this.
This is exactly what Jitspoe needs to know: What did they use. By not publishing this data, he forces the banned player to come clean about it. By publishing all data in advance, there is nothing to come clean about and players will just end up with the longer bantimes.
Or just nobody will end with longer bantime. Pretty much everyone gets 1024 now, so how does it matter.
Just as common reminder: There still is no official guide on what's allowed and what's not (on textures matter, just some unofficial forum bullexcrement, which is cryptic whatsoever).
Also I love how most people have no idea what they are talking about, but talk nonsense anyway, reminds me of PAC thread.
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Also I love how most people have no idea what they are talking about, but talk nonsense anyway.
This. When it comes down to me, this thread could be locked.
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This is exactly what Jitspoe needs to know: What did they use. By not publishing this data, he forces the banned player to come clean about it. By publishing all data in advance, there is nothing to come clean about and players will just end up with the longer bantimes.
Most games don't have a "tell me what you used and I'll reduce your time of ban" -- The only reason Jitspoe has this, is in hopes of people giving in cheats that he DID NOT detect. It allows him to potentially have people give in stuff he did not even detect. It's a good process - but people get banned for "Cheat/Mod Detected" and after their like 1000 day ban, they come back. We still never know if they wall hacked, had texture issues, etc.etc..
And as payl said, the whole 32/64/128 day bans that used to happen when DP was active have disappeared. Everything is 1024. A first offense which was 32 days, you will automatically serve more even if you give in EVERYTHING you used the day after getting banned. Why? Because the communication process with Jitspoe - and time for him to adjust the ban will take over 32 days. It's a small game, small community, been around for longer than most games, either do: Perma bans - or go to the standard 32/64 WHERE ITS DOUBLED, AND GETS CUT IN HALF WHEN YOU GIVE INFO. That was the initial idea behind giving information for a reduction. Because, even if Jitspoe didn't have the time to get around to adjusting ban times (since its not his priority to help a cheater) - the most they'd serve is double what the standard time was.
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Detectable: Anything written for Q2 (since we have changed protocol), anything that tempers with time related callbacks to windows (i.e. speedhacks). WHs that doesn't protect their states are also detectable (like: Old versions of PAC which were interfering with testw), and there is screenshot system, don't play with committee. Anything other is pretty much not detectable.
Seriously, I could just get list of "bad" programs from server code, but why bother doing that? It's already very easy, you can't get much easier than this.
That may be possible for you to determine, but not the average 12 year old that comes and plays the game :P
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But also for hacks, names would also allow creation of a list of hacks that are detectable, and hence more attempts at finding ones that aren't.
This.
I don't really see what benefit there is to providing the community with a list of known cheats.
As for modified content vs. cheats, if you modify your content in such a way that you can identify players through walls, how is that different from using a cheat program to do it? Either way, it provides an unfair advantage, and is cheating.
And as payl said, the whole 32/64/128 day bans that used to happen when DP was active have disappeared. Everything is 1024. A first offense which was 32 days, you will automatically serve more even if you give in EVERYTHING you used the day after getting banned. Why? Because the communication process with Jitspoe
Actually, it's more to stop the "lol, I have to go away to school next week, so I can't play anyway, I'm just going to cheat - it's only 32 days" mentality. The 32 day bans were not enough of a disincentive to using cheats. Once I started hitting people with 1024 day bans, the rate of cheating dropped a lot.
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(1) I don't really see what benefit there is to providing the community with a list of known cheats.
(2) As for modified content vs. cheats, if you modify your content in such a way that you can identify players through walls, how is that different from using a cheat program to do it? Either way, it provides an unfair advantage, and is cheating.
1. Right, so they don't see how little you can detect.
2. I think what people care here about is: Did someone got banned because he modified his textures to baby-blue, white etc or he did used something like wh,speedhack etc. Because still a lot of people don't agree with your response on changed textures.
Actually, it's more to stop the "lol, I have to go away to school next week, so I can't play anyway, I'm just going to cheat - it's only 32 days" mentality. The 32 day bans were not enough of a disincentive to using cheats. Once I started hitting people with 1024 day bans, the rate of cheating dropped a lot.
I assure you, you would actually reduce cheater percentage more if you first said that this have changed out loud. You did it just because you are tired of banning cheaters. And while percentage of cheaters reduced, more people that would like to play got hit, and fact is we have lack of good players that could contribute to match scene.
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Actually, it's more to stop the "lol, I have to go away to school next week, so I can't play anyway, I'm just going to cheat - it's only 32 days" mentality. The 32 day bans were not enough of a disincentive to using cheats. Once I started hitting people with 1024 day bans, the rate of cheating dropped a lot.
If you looked at percentage of cheaters in comparison to percentage of active players --> would it still be a noticeable drop in the rate of cheating? Feels like there aren't even demo requests anymore, and I'm assuming it's more due to lack of player base than anything.
Also: I'm not looking for cheat names, but to me there's a difference between "Wallhacks and Textures" - since recently a lot of warnings have been given out about textures that are subjective (ie Sunman's no longer being legal). I understand giving the NAME of the cheat is stupid. But after 'x' amount of time, if the person hasnt come clean(or once they have), it should be changed from: Cheat/Mod Detected: Name -- to: Modified Textures: Name / Modified Models: Name / Wallhack: Name --- It's not a necessity, but just like the feature request of putting previous bans on players profiles - if this game ever picks up activity competitively I'm sure people would like to know what their teammates used before recruiting.
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I understand giving the NAME of the cheat is stupid. But after 'x' amount of time, if the person hasnt come clean(or once they have), it should be changed from: Cheat/Mod Detected: Name -- to: Modified Textures: Name / Modified Models: Name / Wallhack: Name --- It's not a necessity, but just like the feature request of putting previous bans on players profiles - if this game ever picks up activity competitively I'm sure people would like to know what their teammates used before recruiting.
I said this earlier. If the person doesn't respond in a given amount of time, they most likely don't care. So this should be implemented sometime.
Anyways, I can lock this thread if no one really sees a use to it. Just wanted to hear your opinions on the topic.