Digital Paint Discussion Board
Digital Paint Community => Clans, Matches, and Tournaments => PBCup => Topic started by: Dirty_Taco on July 29, 2006, 01:19:03 PM
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funny. and not getting you any additional respect either. au contraire.
too bad you guys can't stand up to your mistakes (not yours personal, but your clan's).
I was not present during the match or the hours before/after, but my first thought after seeing the demos was "BoB should be removed from the league". He has only been disqualified for 1 game, and even that seems to be too much of a punishment to you. funny.
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It's just as well DT.
Now the rest of the community can fight it out for 2nd best.
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First off er33t sorry to see this. I have a couple of questions for the community and e3rrt.
Having all the groups within the clan community represented on the PBCup staff is important to us
Was this the case during the spring league?
Simply put, we do not want to continue playing in a league where virtually every admin would love to seeing us lose.
I noticed that you mentioned admins, are you not worried about the players see you loose? I am thinking not. Which leads into my next question. Dont you think your clan in and out of game ridicule of others might have caused a general bias against the clan in this community? A "they are just jealous of our skill"' is not an anwser. Becuase we all are, you guys have consistantly been the best.
Lastly I hate to see this happen due to a lack of respect for the rules, it is such waste of talent.
*edit any chance of the clan making it back to the Fall league?
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I completely agree with the decision and I wasn't even there. I watched the demos though, and there is nothing bad enough to warrant a forfiet. suspending of the players who talked, sure, but to take away the win from the team? when 1) if it's that bad type ignore player# , and 2) they only talked in round a few times, and each round they did talk in the round ch1ll won, so maybe they shoulda hoped we did it more...
It's a shame that the person in charge of the decision can't look past his hatred of the clan, cause there are some of us that would have liked to play the rest of the season, and believe the players on our team should be punished. But a biased ruling like this gives me no desire to even continue. Gibb knows if it was his clan facing our situation he'd be saying exactly what I am, but since it's his biggest compeition in the other confrence, and people he doesn't like, he decides taking the deserved win away is the best decision...
watch the demo's. it's not nearly as bad as some of you probably think.
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watch the demo's. it's not nearly as bad as some of you probably think.
Any infraction is bad if you care. Added up over time, I think you know the results. Below is an opinion/example of the result of not caring.
Would you like to watch the demo of GT vs e3rrt? One racial slur to the ref (calling Joe a 'gook'), a few mm1 talk by e3rrt and using a non registered name(s) . Not very offensive, but the rules are made for a reason.
How many infractions does it take? I think the end result is players who follow the 'rules' become sick of playing against those who don't.
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if you care so much type ignore player# .... infact ignore the entire other team... problem solved. are we that much of children we can't take care of matters ourselfs?
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its just the rules, i agree taking the entire team out of this season was a biased request when only a few members caused this but the decision was made so just try and live through it without causing a big rucus
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if you care so much type ignore player# ....
Why should anyone have to do that when there are rules in place that prohibit such actions. That was designed to ignore players not the team leaders and ref. My understanding of the rule was that only team leaders can use this to convey messages to the other team and the ref.
Children? Prehaps. But they have a respect for rules and follow them.
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First off I want to say that I am sad that eR33t has chosen to withdrawl from the league and hope to see you involved next season.
That being said, Even if ch1ll had wont crimething and/or renior we still would have commented to PBCup officials about rule infrations durring the match.
Just a note while this is in my head, even if eR33t did not forfeit crimethink they still would have been behind us in the standings, take that as you will but i dont mean to gloat or anything.
As for DT's comment about the league officials being biased againsted eR33t, I'd like to point out that DT himself played a major role in writing the rules for the league and knew first hand that mm1 durring a game, easpecially after being warned by the ref, can result in a forfeit.
Lets move on to clan representation in the league...At the moment the clans reresented by league admins are .xb. and -ch1ll- and by refs include tR and insane (if thats smokeys clan of the week hehehehe). The reason PBCup has admins (and had admins) in clans such as -ch1ll- .xb. and eR33t is because said clans have the most experienced players in the game and players who have been around for a long period of time and who are not going anywhere.
if theres anything i didnt address or any comments you may have feel free to post
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My comment about why the pbcup and the dp community in general have a problem with e3rrt is well understood by all. I am acutally suprised astute students of this game could or would overlook this. Ends speculation. We can all be guilty of this once in while.
But enough is enough. Where will it end? On this thread sadly. Waste of talent.
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sure talking in mm1 can result in a forfiet, but watch the demo. nothing in there is so bothersome it cost you guys any points. maybe if the admins had some common scence they would realize this.
and it's not like er33t is the only ones who feel that the foreit is wrong, i've talked to a few 3rd parties, they think it's bs too.
and for god sakes, loail, please learn to type eR33t correctly, it's not that hard.
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bothersome would be spamming something non stop or constantly going from observer to the team.. somethin of that sort that we see in pub all so often. a little talking doesn't hurt anyone.. and if it does turn on the meddling ignore. greatest thing jits has done for this game ever, so utilize it.
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Y2J, you might not know that, but DirtyTaco has forfeited aB a map last season for the same reasons as eR33t has been forfeited a map now. I don't think any eR33t member should complain about the forfeit of crimethink. Also, even with that 1 map being lost, there'd still be a great chance for eR33t to go to the championships, but I guess they just want to show everybody how cool they are etc. bla bla. Just look at the comments in this thread "now they can battle out the 2nd best team"; well, eR33t can't prove they are the #1 team now...
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If I may. Let us simplify this for the sake of progress.
How many infractions does it take before the rules are enforced? Anyone? How many times must a team experince a total lack of respect for the rules when participating in pbcup vs any clan.
503-48 + championship + impunity = Rules being enforced, despite your in game prow-less (pun) GG.
http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=impunity
Waste of talents.
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Y2J, you might not know that, but DirtyTaco has forfeited aB a map last season for the same reasons as eR33t has been forfeited a map now. I don't think any eR33t member should complain about the forfeit of crimethink. Also, even with that 1 map being lost, there'd still be a great chance for eR33t to go to the championships, but I guess they just want to show everybody how cool they are etc. bla bla. Just look at the comments in this thread "now they can battle out the 2nd best team"; well, eR33t can't prove they are the #1 team now...
That is not the same reason he forfeited aB, but he as already covered that.
As for us not being able to prove we're #1, we'll save that for regular matches since we can't get a fair match in pbcup.
We were never warned about being forfeited once, unlike aB.
It was only after ch1ll lost this whole thing blew up.
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Here's my biggest concern.
I've gone to great lengths to ensure that global chat be reduced to only refs and team captains. In the start of the Spring season there wasn't anything from preventing people from talking, just a rule saying please don't do it. People couldn't resist it and kept insulting each other back and forth. At this point I made the requirement for say a Level-1 op status. I then told the refs to have the Level-1 login command sent down to 1 captain per team. Some people exposed a workaround for the op requirement and soon everyone was global chatting through console. So then I had jitspoe make me a special game build which included an option to filter console chatting.
At this point things were working okay. There were minor issues with captains using global chat beyond its intentions concerning PBCup (the basic intentions are that captains can coordinate substitutes, communicate with the referee or report a lagged teammate) but nothing to extent we had seen previously. blah. blah. blah. eR33t went on to win Spring Championship. blah. blah.
So here we are at the Summer Season. 4 Weeks played and each week it has been pretty obvious that an eR33t members who has access to admin areas are distributing the global chat login to their teammates. I've already had to change the global chat login 3 times this season (1 password lasted the entire Spring season) across every server. In this most recent match the PBCup Referee had been deoping eR33t members who had logged in, but eR33t members kept ignoring the ref and the PBCup rules and logging back in.
It's become pretty tedius for me to have to change all global chat logins on three different systems and handle complaints from another clan after each match just because (http://www.ch1ll.com/images/flags/us.gif)eR33t(http://www.ch1ll.com/images/flags/us.gif) are enforcing their first amendment.
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I forfeited aB because unibonger was using the name [aB]SkeetOneR33t. I warned him 4 times each time saying it would result in a forfeit. I did not forfeit them for mm1 usage and i would not have forfeited them for using different names that weren't trying to attack my clan.
toM|Vendetta warned us to not talk in mm1 once or twice i believe and never said anything about a forfeit.
503-48 + a championship
correct me if I'm wrong, but BoB used a false name as well... like [eR33t]bundle of twigsmagee or something similar. I have not mentioned mm1 talk in my previous post at all, and except for warning aB there are plenty of similarities, aren't there? Also, we (all admins, including DT) decided upon enforcing the rules with more strength, so I believe they ruled the right way in making eR33t forfeit crimethink.
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i'm a bit confused.
I hear the word rules, then hear that its no biggie if they arn't followed.
Can someone please confirm to me if I have to obey these rules, or if its ok if i laugh in the face of anyone who tries to enforce them..?
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We're saying something should be changed. We're modern day MLK Jr's. Talking does not bother me one bit, and on the rare occurance it does, i ignore the person. A stupid rule like that should be changed, and it's not like the whole team was talking, just one individual. And it wasn't as bad as ch1ll would have you believe... they got outplayed, it had nothing to do with us talking in mm1, infact they won every round we did talk in mm1, they should wish we did it more... We weren't flooding text or anything. I welcome mm1. If it becomes annoying you can ignore the person. I love the fact most of you seem to be like 5 and incapable of doing anything yourselfs and always looking to mom and dad for support. meddling ignore the person if it's that bad. The ignore command works 10x better then this op thing anyways.. Put bob on ignore the second you load up a game with him, and no excuses. It's pathetic to win a game you lost because of something like this.
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you could've told the admins what you think about the rules a long time ago, don't you think? Now that there are rules, they should be followed and enforced, and if you don't follow them, a punishment is correct, if you like the rules or not.
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hell, i don't see the rules on the pbcup website anywhere.
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and the sticky set of rules says nothing about mm1 talking.
and also
"Team Rosters will be locked at 00:00am EST on the first day of the 6th week. This is much like the Trade Deadline which is observed in most North American sports leagues" - gibb last night was trying to say how this isn't like a pro sports league, yet there are some rules that follow directly in the path of it.. what is a little trash talk, especially when you can ignore it.
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Extract from the original rules (set up for the previous season)
6.3: Rule Violations
Any and all rule violations are a serious issue and will not be taken lightly.
Teams who violate any rule may be subject to disciplinary action. This includes the specific penalties listed or suspensions, forfeits, replays, removal from the league, and loss of points. The league may change penalties as it sees fit.
In the event a team breaks the public chat rule and degrades, verbally attacks or threatens an opponent the team that player plays for will receive an automatic forfeit loss and that player shall be suspended until further notice. A second infraction will cost that team a 1-week suspension. The league will not tolerate such behavior.
Disruptive teams will be purged from the league. Any team that is repeatedly disruptive in the form of un-tolerated language, pointless spamming, server crashing, etc. will be removed from this league.
In the event a team breaks the public chat rule and degrades, verbally attacks or threatens an opponent the team that player plays for will receive an automatic forfeit loss and that player shall be suspended until further notice.
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I love the fact most of you seem to be like 5 and incapable of doing anything yourselfs and always looking to mom and dad for support. ignore the person if it's that bad. The ignore command works 10x better then this op thing anyways.. Put bob on ignore the second you load up a game with him, and no excuses. It's pathetic to win a game you lost because of something like this.
If you know that you will lose a game if you mm2, then don't act like a spoilt child and do something you know you shouldnt.
Its not down to others to ignore someone, its down to that person NOT to violate the rules in the first place.
The person/s at fault are those that broke the rules, not those that have to do something extra to not be affected by anothers rule-breaking
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the rules are clearly stated, just because your team is the best doesnt mean you dont have to follow PUBLIC rules
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Where in the rules does it say that it's acceptable for the ref to not give one warning about a potential forfeit during the map, but then two hours and many tears later issue one? I can't find that section.
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where does it say in the rules its acceptable to tell your team you love their sexy bodies in mm2?
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wow
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If that is wrong, I don't want to be right.
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Wow, lots of stuff to respond to. First, like other people have said, i'm sorry that you all feel it’s necessary to leave the league after this ruling. You might think that I am just saying this to appear courteous, but as a premiere clan in the game in regards to skill, it’s a shame to see you leave the league as defending champions. We purposely made these rulings the way they are so that you could still participate in the league, and have a chance to move onto the playoffs for a second season in a row.
Now to address individual comments:
Pierce i'm surprised to see this post from you even though I know you’re obviously upset by the ruling. Regardless, you know for a fact I am not a biased ref who wants to see your clan fail. Perhaps you weren't referring to me in your initial post, as you were vague and said 'virtually every admin,' but regardless, I don't believe these accusations are true regarding Xbain, myself, Pure, and oddjob. These rulings were not made to force you out of the league, but to hopefully get a point across to your team, and all teams, that if you break these rules, you will be punished regardless what team you are.
This has already been stated a little bit, but as a league that wants to promote FUN, FAIR, and RESPECTFUL play by all participating teams. We do not want our participants to have to type “ignore #” during a game due to an opposing team being disruptive through messagemode1.
You might wonder what I define as disruptive. If you have mm1 privileges and you aren’t subbing in an observer, reporting a teammate is lagged, telling the ref what your map is, or what color you want, or simply saying “gg” at the end of a match, you are being disruptive. I know without a doubt some people will not agree with that reasoning, but if what you are saying does not relate to all the things I just previously mentioned, it simply is not necessary to be talking.
It is bad practice to put that burden on our participants to have to type “ignore” when we can eliminate that problem by allowing three people in a server of at least 9 to talk via mm1. However, this system obviously becomes flawed when administrators give this information to their teammates over and over again. Please understand that if bob never had access to the mm1 login, he never would have spoken a word during the game. If he had never had access to the mm1 login, this thread would not exist, no suspensions would have issued, you would be one 2-1 win over aT from reaching the playoffs for a second year in a row to defend your title.
It was mentioned that the ref for this match, TomVendetta, only warned eR33t once or twice during the match about talking in mm1, and never mentioned anything about a forfeit potentially being issued. I must know, if he warns you by saying, “Do not talk in mm1.” What do you think is going to happen if you keep talking? Maybe you weren’t expecting a forfeit, but why would you blatantly disrespect him by ignoring him and continuing to talk? If he never asked you to stop talking in mm1, or questioned if bob was the leader of eR33t (insinuating if he wasn’t the leader, he shouldn’t be talking in mm1, let alone have access to mm1 login), and issued a forfeit, then I think you would have a legitimate complaint.
Clearly this whole ordeal boils down to, “Does talking in mm1 during a match warrant a forfeit?” In a league with established rules set to keep games fun and fair, I believe it does. No team signed up for this league to be ridiculed during a match, whether it’s as blatant as a personal attack or a small remark like, “lmao” or “lucky” after a death. It simply isn’t necessary. Every person that plays this game is different; some people may not even notice this stuff during a match. Other people might notice it when they are looking at their mm2 chatter for recon. We believe reducing all taunting, mocking, offensive comments to an absolute minimum is the best thing for this league. By issuing forfeits for this immature behavior, we think we can keep this league enjoyable for all participating clans.
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just a small complaint i have is that a few of the er33t people have now joined the roster of team insane which of course gives them the advantage over the other teams. just my opinion but i understand they have until week 6 to set their rosters
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No one from eR33t has joined the Insane roster.And how would that be unfair anyways..? They arent in a PBCup team. so..?
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Team Insane out of roster tickets :-\
Here is their PBCup Summer Roster: http://www.pbcup.com/?a=clanprof&n=49&e=pbc2
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zarathura and GODSKILLA were in the roster yesterday apparently they dropped
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They're in the "clan" on PBCup but not on the Summer Roster
http://www.pbcup.com/?a=clanprof&n=49 and http://www.pbcup.com/?a=clanprof&n=49&e=pbc2
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I removed them because Id rather win pbcup with my actual team instead of having eR33t get their "revenge"
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Very respectable choice, I think most people would agree your team is talented enough to win a championship without them.
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This has already been stated a little bit, but as a league that wants to promote FUN, FAIR, and RESPECTFUL play by all participating teams.
+1 gaming morals. Something e3rrt mocks and ignores. They self inflicted this and all I see is excuses no ownership of responsibility. Like a child taking thier ball home, saying I quit. I expected more.
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not only did they take their ball home, loial21, but they took their shoes home, and their backpacks home, AND THEY TOOK THEIR LUNCHBOXES, AND THEIR TRAPPER KEEPERS, AND THEY KICKED DOWN THE DOORS TO THEIR BEDROOMS AND CHOPPED THEIR MOTHER F@#%* BEDFRAMES IN HALF LIKE BYAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
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They self inflicted this and all I see is excuses no ownership of responsibility.
I'm all for suspending the players that broke the rules, I don't see how a forfeit is waranted though. It's not distracting enough to cost someone the game. It's a cheap attempt by ch1ll to gain the win, and making excuses for their own loss. And somehow it worked.
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IF YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU DON'T FORFEIT A MAP, DONT TALK IN MM1. ITS A SIMPLE RULE TO UNDERSTAND AND FOLLOW.
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Team Insane out of roster tickets :-\
Dominated.
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We dont need eR33t to beat you.
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Hohohoho. ;)
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They self inflicted this and all I see is excuses no ownership of responsibility.
I'm all for suspending the players that broke the rules, I don't see how a forfeit is waranted though. It's not distracting enough to cost someone the game. It's a cheap attempt by ch1ll to gain the win, and making excuses for their own loss. And somehow it worked.
See paragraphs 4, 5, 6, and 8 of my post on page 2
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Factual question.
Skeeter, then why ever have them match in your clan for any reason, ever? If you dont need them. Laughs at your face. I am sure sk8ter is right about not needing them. I just find it typically ironic and hella funny.
Y2J,
Even with a forfiet would that have forced you out of playoff contention? My guess is no. Then why quit?
The only thing cheap is your clan dropping out of pbcup.
Part of the game is following the rules not just making backdoor jumps and never missing a shot.
Time and time again the rules were flaunted and ever clan ridiculed by your clan as a whole and not just during the summer season.
Perhaps this single infraction does not deserve a 'forfiet' per-say. But as stated and demos proving that this is not a single infraction.
While your at 'quiting' why dont you just give up the spring title?
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What angers me is you guys act like its the end of the world if someone has to type in the command to ignore a player... People trash talk all the time, everywhere. It's not often you get a chance to totally ignore it. take advantage of the feature if it bothers you so meddling much. A forfeit should come as a result of someone hacking or double clanning. Those change the outcome of a game, not someone typing lmfao in mm1.
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Loial, even if I were to take the wins off in which someone from eR33t has played we would be about 140-34 so...shut up about that, Please.
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Y2J acting like its the end of the world? ITS AGAINST THE FREAKING RULES. OBEY THEM OR CHANGE THEM. Besides your clan QUIT becuase they refuse to follow rules and accept punishment, end of story.
Sorry to see all this happen. It could have been avoided had 'thy mouths' been shut and just played. Now who is acting like its the end of the world. cant even keep you mouths shut for the sake of a win.
Which is more incumbent for a player?
1. Type ignore.
2. Follow the rules.
GG. Have a good day sir.
SK8,
And? You never bothered to challenge my main question.
Why dont you make a new topic in under 'clans' and we can discuss my question. This is not needed here. Sorry forum readers.
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Why should a team have to forfeit for what one individual did? If barry bonds gets caught doping, the giants don't forfeit their whole season. If bob talks in mm1, we shouldn't have to forfeit the game he played.
What bothers me is ch1ll lost, got outplayed, no cheating involved, and then they use a stupid rule to gain the win. If it were spamming it would have been one thing, but it wasn't. And it's not like you can't control what you see.
I just want the people of this community to grow some balls and stop acting like this is a just rule. No team should forfeit because of the actions of one player talking. One player hacking I could argue either way for, but for talking? no. It's meddling ridiculous, and if you can't handle typing ignore player# , you think it's too much of a hassle, that's pathetic.
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Again.
Which is more incumbent for a player?
1. Type ignore.
2. Follow the rules.
It's ridiculous, and if you can't handle typing ignore player# , you think it's too much of a hassle, that's pathetic.
WRONG! If you cant handle playing by rules and you think that is too much of a hassle thats not just pathetic it forfitable and probaly best for all that you dont play to begin with. Now thats a waste your time and talent. Go kick bob not the refs. They are just enforcing something you agreed to. Even little minded Loial knows this.
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when did i ever agree to it.. i think it's a stupid rule and should be changed
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I believe he means you agreed to abide by the rules when your team joined the league.
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Thank you Gibb. Y2J you also could have participated in asking that rule to be changed before or after your clan went home.
One more correction.
If barry bonds gets caught doping, the giants don't forfeit their whole season.
First you guys quit you and still had games to play, right? I dont know but I am guessing your team would have qualified for the playoffs? Your team did not have to quit. Just accept the punishment and continue playing, oh and make sure you dont violate any more rules.<<<< Look a solution to the entire mess.
This is exactly why every team leader should have a vote on subject matters, regarding pbcup matters. In this case violations of rules and the punishments.
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There is really no argument what so ever.
I don't understand why this thread is still alive.
Y2J is angry as he wants to play PBCup, which i can understand. However, he is venting his frustrations in the wrong direction. They should be targeted at his teammates.
For breaking the PBCup rules teh team forfeited one map. There can be no argument about where the blames lies with this, it is down to the rulebreaker, not those who enforce said rules.
Now, it is his teammates who decided to quit PBCup, this decision was not forced upon them, or taken out of their hands. This was their own decision.
If Y2J feels anger that his team is no longer in PBCup, take it out on your team who quit, rather than making yourself look foolish in this thread.
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I am participating in asking the rule get changed, I think it's a crazy rule considering you can ignore people. Not all rules are good ones, and I feel that is one. Why would I follow it if I think it's stupid. Furthermore I'm not even one of the people that played. But I watched the demos, and a forfeit for saying lmfao after dying... it's not warranted. It doesn't effect the outcome of the game.
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I'm already on another team for pbcup now, that's not the problem. The problem I have is that talking in mm1 does not warrant a forfeit whether the rules say so or not. It does not effect the outcome of the game.
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The admins have one mind set , ooo rules, they must all be good. Look at the law, things a change, one law proves to be wrong/bad, and it gets taken away, or caselaw comes in effect that puts that crappy law to rest. The admins in this situation should have watched the demos, and realized that a forfeit was not waranted. Bob saying lmfao after dying did not make anyone play bad. It had no outcome on the game. If anything it was good for ch1ll, as they won each round he said lmfao. The admins should have evaluated their own rules at this point and set a standard that suspension for the player is waranted, but not a forfeit.
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mm1 talk is not wanted in match situations. It serves no purpose other than to spam, female dog, name-call or annoy (apart from making subs, etc).
It serves no purpose, thus a rule bannnig such talk is acceptable. The fact that only team captains have mm1 privilages should mean this never being an issue. However, as we have seen abuse of certain priviliges renders this useless.
If you want to make mm1 legal, at least give some examples of its positive use.
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Need to tell the other team someone is pjacked
Need to make a sub for the captain because he's unresponsive/pjacked
I don't see whats wrong with anyone typing lmfao, ns, gs, luck, nice shot, or anything for that matter after dying.
I love knowing that someone thinks I just got lucky or somethin of that sort. Just kill them again next time and they shut up.
If someone doesn't, let them ignore players who talk.
Trash talk is part of any sport, trying to avoid it makes it like a t-ball league.
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And lekky- I'm far from the only person who feels a forfeit isn't warranted in that type of situation. You'd be suprised at some of the people who feel my way.
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Who cares why you got in trouble? Men dont QUIBBLE. Over being punished. Is that an MAN law? It should be. My apology ladies.
Ggo kick bob around and Taco for giving ops. Blitz other than "ramalama ding dong" what do you have to say?
And lekky- I'm far from the only person who feels a forfeit isn't warranted in that type of situation. You'd be suprised at some of the people who feel my way.
We would? You would be suprised at the dissapointment we all feel that your clan quit.
Your playing in another clan already? Will you use Y2j as your name?
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Loial I dont get why you keep posting in this matter. GT isnt even part of pbcup and you do not participate in it at all. It shouldnt matter to you at all, just stop.
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We still are in and wish to be apart of the fall league. We have lives that have tending to sometimes. So why are you posting?
I got five, (no three) reasons..
1. I begged Taco several times on several different topics to allow all members a vote.
2. I begged for gaming morals, I was laughed at.
3. Would you like to see the GT vs e3rrt spring match. I got a lot to say, but Derrek out of class said no complaints for wins.
What now?
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Your playing in another clan already? Will you use Y2j as your name?
No I'm playing as one of my 5 other registered pbcup names, why else do I pay for cable, dsl, satelite, and have my school connection, along with that 56k?
And are you trying to accuse me of ever playing for another team in a match? Cause I sure haven't. I'll be playing pbcup with another team since mine isn't in it, but I won't be playing regular matches for them.
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You wanna know why people are dissapointed we quit, cause they don't get the chance to say they beat us because of some bullexcrement rule. Ch1ll can now say they beat us in pbcup, because bob said lmfao in mm1, and that aparently ruined the whole game. Why do we wanna keep playing if that's the case. People have a vendetta against our clan. What didnt effect the outcome of the match in anyway, for some reason, cost us the game. It's baffeling to me. Someone on pbcup committie should stand up and say, hey, that doesnt effect the outcome of the game, only the players should have been suspended. But that great committee consists of mostly ch1ll poeple, and their fellow roostersuckers, so change isn't an option.
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Hmm what did happen in that GT/eR33t match?
http://oxygen.dnsprotect.com/~houstona/dt/PBCup_sshots/summer_3rdquarter_GT.jpg
http://oxygen.dnsprotect.com/~houstona/dt/PBCup_sshots/summer_4thquarter_GT.jpg
Random SS? hmm since I cant post the demo I will take any ss of mm1 talk and a missed named player calling Joe a gook. Insert e3rrt laugh here. Freaking sad.
Now on 2 Y2J,
Dont think for us, nor will I . Fact is all of us have watched your clan flaunt the rules and becuase why? You will win anyway. I think saying no for once is Justified.
Leaving the league is not.
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I think we all need to give the well-respected, vetern, Lekky, a round of applause for excellent work in reasoning through this situation. Thank you Lekky for your opinions.
Hmm what did happen in that GT/eR33t match?
http://oxygen.dnsprotect.com/~houstona/dt/PBCup_sshots/summer_3rdquarter_GT.jpg
http://oxygen.dnsprotect.com/~houstona/dt/PBCup_sshots/summer_4thquarter_GT.jpg
Hmmm what did happen?
Please request the following ss 1-3. SS demo available. Like I said not horrible things happened but e3rrt has ben bad and Joe. If you would like the demo zipped, since I have it ant dont wont to waste forum space with 6 megs of demos.
1. Talking mm1 Names not registerd. A violaiton adding up.
2. Calling a ref a gook.
3. Ref after questioned by our leader as to being not biased, said....something bad about european refs.
I have all files, so dont be shy, added up there is alot of biased reactions. On all parts.
Please request a ss or demo.
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First of all, Y2J, please use the edit button next time ;)
But I watched the demos, and a forfeit for saying lmfao after dying... it's not warranted. It doesn't effect the outcome of the game.
The admins in this situation should have watched the demos, and realized that a forfeit was not waranted. Bob saying lmfao after dying did not make anyone play bad. It had no outcome on the game. If anything it was good for ch1ll, as they won each round he said lmfao.
I don't see whats wrong with anyone typing lmfao, ns, gs, luck, nice shot, or anything for that matter after dying.
Ch1ll can now say they beat us in pbcup, because bob said lmfao in mm1, and that aparently ruined the whole game.
Well, you apparently have not watched the entire demo, iif any of it. I seriously doubt anyone would make a team forfeit a map because one of the players said "lmfao" or similar, but maybe, just maybe, because:
- they gained login that no player except for the captain should have had
- they called the referee a "f.a.g.g.o.t"
- they used wrong and abusive names
Think about that for a while, before posting more faulty argumentation here please.
Oh, and to your comparison with that baseball team who does not forfeit a game/season for one man's fault: Take a look at the Tour de France, Floyd Landis apparently took drugs, and he will have to "forfeit" his win, not just the day when he took the drugs. At least if he will not be proven innocent.
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I think we all need to give the well-respected, vetern, Lekky, a round of applause for excellent work in reasoning through this situation. Thank you Lekky for your opinions.
Much appreciated DT, thankyou.
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I am going to make a post just talking about "e3rrt" ITS NOT "e3rrt" its eR33t. its been annoying me like crazy. so ya loial, eR33t is the way its typed.
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Well, you apparently have not watched the entire demo, iif any of it. I seriously doubt anyone would make a team forfeit a map because one of the players said "lmfao" or similar
Oh, and to your comparison with that baseball team who does not forfeit a game/season for one man's fault: Take a look at the Tour de France, Floyd Landis apparently took drugs, and he will have to "forfeit" his win, not just the day when he took the drugs. At least if he will not be proven innocent.
The cyclying scandal is one individual.. losing an individual title, not a team sport. There are cycling teams, but nothing will happen to anyone else on the target team or whoever sponsors them now.. pretty sure its not the post office anymore.
And I have watched the demos.. maybe you haven't.. dt and bob said lmfao after a few rounds, they weren't holding a conversation or anything.
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Okay.
After looking at everything again, and reading through this thread. I'm going to have to agree with Y2J and whoever else that has the same arguement as him (don't remember who, but I know there was at least one more. Probably dt). This is that a forfet is not justified because one or two people breaking a couple rules that don't directly affect the outcome ie. mm1, talking excrement to refs etc. However, I agree with suspensions. Like Y2J said, if you look at all other games/sports if a person does something that "breaks the rules" of the game or sport, he is punished not the whole team.
Word.
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Yeah i've read every post here, and have been following the thread for days now.
Should Bob be suspended? Sure.
Should eR33t be forfeited? Absolutely not.
Whoever talked about that Landis guy...pluh-lease man. He is an individual, not a team. Even in that sport being on a team is not even really being on a team. You ride for a team, but win or lose (or get stripped of awards) on your own singular merit. If one of his "team" mates would have broken the rules it would not have effected him in the least.
I think the PCBup authorities acted with extreme bias towards an entire team in a matter that should have been handled at the individual level.
The question is, will they do the right thing and set the record straight?
PS: I don't care for any comments to my post. I know what every one of you thinks on this matter. I waited till the thread wound down a good bit to say my peace so I wouldn't get involved in the squabbles.
Do the right thing.
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I believe we have set the record straight by explaining our reasoning behind the suspensions and forfeitures. Yes, we all understand an individual spoke out when he was not supposed to and earned his team a forfeit. I understand that some people think 1 persons actions should not effect his entire team.
However, we the league believe that because this is a team game where all individuals MUST work together to succeed, all teams will be held responsible for their members actions. Immaturity has run rampant through out this community, I think we can all agree with this. By putting the responsibility on all participating clans to keep their members and teammates in order, we believe this is the best way to maintain a high level of sportsmanship and maturity through league games.
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No gibb, what you have done is failed at upholding a level of fairness. Even one of the ch1ll members says it shouldn't have resulted in a team forfeit. The rules can be changed. This rule in particular is not a good one. By you the league, you mean you, you are the one who made the decision. I was told from a high ranking official in Pbcup that he didn't feel a forfeit should have been given either... This decision came down on you, and you couldn't look at it from any other view then how to make eR33t the most angry. Forget fairness in a decission, rule, whatever it may be.
Ignore the player, and get him suspended after the match. You don't take away a team's effort. It's bullcrap, and if it it's a sign of what's to come on decisions it's pathetic. For once think about how fair a rule actually is, and how much it effects the game, rather then just say it's there.
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why is it so hard to understand that having to ignore someone on a server is ALREADY diverting attention away from the match at hand, I dont get why you are pushing this subject Y2J. I'm happy er33t has been held responsible for this. YOU HANDED OUT THE PASSWORD TO YOUR TEAMMATES. No one would have talked in the first place if you didnt abuse the rights to the password. The team should'nt be held responsible for complete disregard to a rule? I'm failing to see how several of you guys who I know are educated, are responding like this. Are you telling me Zidane headbutting an Italian only had reprocussions on his own image, or the representation of his country? cmon guys, you KNOW better. Hold bob accountable, but hold the team accountable for a poor decision to hand out the password. Y2J... you should be above and over this, I've known you for awhile...
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I didn't do excrement. lmfao. I'm failing to see how this rule is fair to the team. Which is what we want, fairness for each team.
talking is an individual thing, not a team thing.
if bob starts talkin in mm1, who am I to stop him, I have no physical way of doing so.
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Handing out passwords to your teammates is a team thing. The reasoning for doing this, from my understanding, was so that the whole team could complain in mm1 about ch1ll taking too long to join up.
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Blitz didn't say one thing in mm1, yet he deserves a forfeit? I don't think so. One of the players from the other team even said it shouldn't have been a forfeit.
I don't understand why mm1 isn't enabled, and people just ignore who they dont want to hear.
People should be able to call for subs whenever they need it, especially if the captain is lagging or something.
People should be able to give a little trash talk to the other side, or compliment them. It's not the end of the world
You guys act like you'll never recover from someone saying lucky shot... that kinda crap happens all the time, it's part of any competition.
What if the captain starts saying lmfao.. lucky shot.. whatever else.. It's not the teams fault, yet they have to forfeit.. It's complete crap. The rule is faulty, yet the pbcup admins won't admit it because they feel the need to stand by their desision.. well gibb's decision... for what it's worth.
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Blitz didn't say one thing in mm1, yet he deserves a forfeit? I don't think so. One of the players from the other team even said it shouldn't have been a forfeit.
I don't understand why mm1 isn't enabled, and people just ignore who they dont want to hear.
People should be able to call for subs whenever they need it, especially if the captain is lagging or something.
People should be able to give a little trash talk to the other side, or compliment them. It's not the end of the world
You guys act like you'll never recover from someone saying lucky shot... that kinda crap happens all the time, it's part of any competition.
What if the captain starts saying lmfao.. lucky shot.. whatever else.. It's not the teams fault, yet they have to forfeit.. It's complete crap. The rule is faulty, yet the pbcup admins won't admit it because they feel the need to stand by their desision.. well gibb's decision... for what it's worth.
Agreed to the fullest extent. I think you guys made a bigger deal then what actually happened. It didnt have an outcome on the match, I understand the rules. Stating my opinion
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Yeah Blitz never said a thing.
Then said lots of things on irc.
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Going into watching the demo i was thinking some consistent spam of stuff. there was only like 5 times anyone said anything in mm1 from eR33t. Lets just say this was ch1ll or xb. if oddjob deciced to say lucky shot or sumthing. would that warrent a forfeit. NO! just be fair. Just because this 1 clan has 1/2 the pbcup admins doesn't mean that calls need to go in their favor. IF i was gibb, i would have just gave bob a couple weeks off pbcup if even. mm1 is part of the game.
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Bix: BoB speaking in mm1 was only part of the issue, it's that he broke rules to speak in mm1.
It seems to be the same thing being said over and by different people, and by the same people worded differently. eR33t should not have forfeited crimethink, and Bob should have been suspended.
That is not how things were decided, and eR33t dropped out due to an unfair decision as to their rule breaking.
This really should be a dead issue, no?
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I just want pbcup to change the rule. It feels as though a lot of people feel the same way, that one persons action should not warrant a team forfeit.
I don't care about the map in particular cause we're not even in pbcup anymore; I just don't want the same to happen in the future to anyone else.
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ok.. this is probaly stepping over the line but eh. week 2, CC vs ch1ll. xbain said lol once. should he be banned? should ch1ll forfeit c1 now? look at demos of week 2 CC vs ch1ll. "lol" was what he said, and he said it once.
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At least XtremeBain got his mm1 login legally :)
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it wasnt 1 persons actions tho was it? i believe someone passed on admin details abusing their privilages.
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ok.. this is probaly stepping over the line but eh. week 2, CC vs ch1ll. xbain said lol once. should he be banned? should ch1ll forfeit c1 now? look at demos of week 2 CC vs ch1ll. "lol" was what he said, and he said it once.
Alright, so lets take a glance at the PBCup Spring 2006 Week 2 demos of -ch1ll- vs. [CC]
http://www.ch1ll.com/upload/ccweek2-castle1.dm2
http://www.ch1ll.com/upload/ccweek2-roundup.dm2
http://www.ch1ll.com/upload/ccweek2-warhouse.dm2
At least XtremeBain got his mm1 login legally :)
Actually no one got login. I had to change it a couple days prior because eR33t had given it out to their clanmates, and I forgot to update oddjob on what the new login was.
I think in roundup or warhouse I pressed mm1 once by accident, but didn't have the correct op-level, so it never even made its way to global chat.
Did you even look at the demos, or are you just trying bait this thread more?
Now while I'm here, I'm going to explain how the forfeit decision came down. At the time, PBCup had 5 organizers: -ch1ll-bitmate, [eR33t]DirtyTaco, .xb.gibb(formerly of Rust), .xb.oddjob, and -)MeMi(-PureBlood. I had taken a step away from organizing and was focusing on operations (website, scheduling, servers, irc, etc.). Since DirtyTaco and bitmate were members of a clan involved in the incident they weren't participating in the decision. gibb, oddjob and PureBlood made a decision together and gibb posted it on the PBCup Forums. A couple of them have already mentioned the points in this thread that the decision was based upon. It probably didn't make matters better that Blitz deleted the majority of the PBCup website and database from the PBCup webserver, and other [eR33t] members (including DirtyTaco) were supporting his actions on IRC.
I will be making some changes between our Summer and Fall seasons, and I will discuss the possibility of global chat returning, forfeit process, suspension process among other things.
If you have any more concerns with how things are handled by PBCup, feel free to leave me a PM here or send me an e-mail at XtremeBain@ch1ll.com
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I believe that the decision to forfeit the last map was one of both bias and poor judgment. Also, I believe that the amount of controversy directly resulting from the verdict speaks enough for its validity. The decision to withdrawal eR33t from the season was in no way related to the player suspensions; moreover, is was specific correlated to the post-match (eR33t vs. ch1ll) forfeiture of the third map . In fact, the player suspensions where both issued after the forfeit was in place on the website. Further, my personal suspension was a result of my actions in retaliation towards the aforementioned forfeiture, and in was no way correlated to the actual match.
With that said, obviously the league is in no position to overturn any current rulings. I feel that if such an overturn was made, it would only further serve as justification towards the league’s lack of structure and authority. However, I do hope that at least changes are considered within the administration towards future such situations. More specifically:
A. Rules that apply specifically to individuals (such as the use of messagemode1) should further be enforced specifically to those individuals in defiance.
B. The enforcement structure of rules should be absolute. This requires a formal definition as to the procedure wherein a rule is at liability of insubordination. Hence, if there is a clearly stated structure for enforcing rules, we will no longer be put at the mercy of personal juxtaposition (which tends toward inherent bias).
C. Completely unrelated to A and B: The pbcup.com website is the central driving mechanism behind the entire league (or at least that was the plan). However, the current state of the site is mediocre at best. After switching to the new layout for this season, most of the CSS has not even been modified to fit the new color scheme. I can hardly read half the pages due to color clashes. Further, there is a countless list of problems and bugs within the sites structure. It just saddens me to see such a half-witted attempt, when I know that so much more is capable from the creator(s).
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Loial likes logic. To bad it took this.
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Very nice wording, Blitz, but can't you write like a normal human? I had to read it twice to understand all of it :P
I surely agree to what you say about enforcement of the rules, and I was even one of those putting pressure on the referees to make them enforce the rules more than in Spring Season, as breaking the rules was a big issue back then.
Now, to come back to the actualy topic, thus the forfeiture of crimethink. There are obviously 2 standpoints on this topic:
- one side says it was an individual's fault, and so only the individual should have been punished. Well, I agree that the individual should be punished, but my first reaction to the 1 week suspension was "why is he not suspended for the whole season?". That was pointed towards BoB's, not Blitz's actions.
- the other side says the team should be held responsible for the individual's actions. Additionally, there were at least 2 individuals involved in breaking the rules (DT and BoB, Blitz later on as well, but not related to crimethink). I agree to that it is the team's responsibility to have their mates follow the rules, and it is especially the team captain's responibility, as he should have some kind of authority in his team. If that person is even involved in breaking the rules by helping his mates doing so, I can't find an excuse for that. If BoB had gained access to the login from somewhere else, eR33t's captain should have shut him up anyways, and then it might have been ruled an individual's fault. I know it is not very easy to rule on this matter, as of course everyone is biased, and issues like this will probably be ruled by case law every time. I'd just like to demand some more responsibility from the team captains in any case, especially when they are as long in the game and community as all of eR33t's players.
To close this up: I hope everyone can step up and take a look at the decisions made from more than one side, if he agrees with the ruling or not. Furthermore, you should think about "what would have happened if everyone had followed the rules?", and maybe then we will all have a more pleasant continuation of this season. Thanks for reading and have a good time in PBCup.
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"what would have happened if everyone had followed the rules?
e3rrt wins. Why did they quit?
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Who knows if eR33t would have won?
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Everyone with an IQ over 50.
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Everyone with an IQ over 50.
Die. <3
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Again, Pureblood seemed to ignore the primary issue which is the forfeit of the map for actions that did not hinder the chance of ch1ll winning. eR33t quit the league because we got forfeited, not because players got suspended. Thus I don't think the debate here is about players getting suspended -- we essentially agree on the suspension, it's on the distribution of the forfeit that we disagree on.
All you have to do is admit that, yes, eR33t's actions did not hinder ch1ll in anyway or give eR33t any sort of advantage during the match on crimethink and therefore the win on that map should not be taken from them (since it was won fair and square). The PBCup rule that states that teams get forfeited for their teammates talking in mm1 should be changed to individuals getting suspended.
Thinking back on the aB forfeit... unibonger definitely should have gotten suspended not forfeited. Back then i thought the only action that we could take was to forfeit the team, but that should be changed.
what he said.
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I think e3rrt over reaction (leaving) is just as bad as the forfiet call. Jesus. I would also like to go on mention that allowing e3rrt players to join anothers teams roster is really really lame. Those that care I am sure would agree.
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They didnt join, idiot. I told you i removed them
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Is it possible for loial not to respond with ignorant comments on a subject that he has no involvement in at all? Clearly, the answer is no.
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Not what smokey said on vent with me and muffy last night. Idiot? LOL I guess smokey is a liar and they are not using thier last tickets to pick up some players and y2j did not join another team? Thats all smokey could talk about.
Blitz whats ignorant about my comments to your clans over reaction, you still would have won?
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I did use up my last tickets, but if you werent such an idiot and could read you would have saw that I removed them. Y2J probably did join another team, I dont care.
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I read that PRIOR to last night if you could bother to put things in context perhaps you would not be so angry. Let me help
1 I was talking to Smokey last night and you posting that a few days ago. Chronological speaking, that makes Smokey the 'idiot' or a liar. GG
Calling me names when I have called you none gets you unbanned how? You are off to a bad start, mabey you wont ever change.
l8ter sk8ter
Sorry off subject.
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Y2J probably did join another team, I dont care.
as of right now y2j is on the [CC] roster but we dont know if we are going to use him in our season right now
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Thanks for being honest, Dam refreshing. Great pick up congrats.
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loial, you are stupid, pay attention. I dont care if youre a gt admin or not, you post in threads that dont involve you in any way, shape or form.
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Actually they do involve him. He plays an DigitalPaint and YOU play DigitalPaint.
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IS he involved in pbcup at all? When was the last time GT actually matched, all loial does is play pub.
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loial, you are stupid, pay attention. I dont care if youre a gt admin or not, you post in threads that dont involve you in any way, shape or form.
Just to play devil's advocate here, this thread doesn't really involve you either.
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I actually participate in PBCup and this whole eR33t joining insane roster, so technically it does since someone brought it up
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I had to skip the summer league, were you in the spring leauge? Ok so we are 1v1 only your team did better. :)
Gibb you are right, we both really dont have anything else to say but our opinions. E3rrt should not have dropped out, very disappointing and they should not be allowed to compete untill the new season starts. THere is mine.
My point about me being admin has less to do with the fact YOU can not follow the context of something with calling everything stupid for one. Second you never anwsered about smokey saying last night e3rrt members are in insane and will be playing.
But alas I knew you wouldnt, thus making my point even more questionable. WHo is lying sk8ter or smokey? OH well sounds like a new topic sk8ter I will let you start since you are so smart.
Unless someone involkes my name in this thread that would be all I have to say.
::) + :o :o :o :o= me
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Loial, bain posted that I removed them. good god
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Did someone say loial??? UH OH.....loial stomps into room and gently says..... I warned you and asked you start a new thread smart guy. You are lazy. So I will start one, but will say this.....
I know what he posted child. Smokey was lying then to me and Muffy? Glad muffy was there to hear what he was saying he was cryign about y2j being in CC and that you had bob and someone else on the roster. LAST FREAKING NIGHT!!!!! Not a FEW DAYS AGO!!. What do you not understand? Please dont respond here. Sorry folks.
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did i say we had bob? clearly you cannot understand what i said. When the bob subject came up, it was you asking me if i cared. But what i said is i THINK we have dt. And about how skater said he didnt want all of er33t on our roster beacuse he wanted to win pbcup himself.
You ARE an idiot.
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This is way off topic. Sorry folks. Here is the continuation.
http://dpball.com/forums/index.php?topic=2845.msg33633#msg33633
You ARE an idiot
No I made the mistake of listening to one. Please follow link to find out why.
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i dont know why people are freaking out about this. eR33t lost because the rules say you will forfeit the round if the rules are broken. I think we all have established the rules need refining. If there are no rules, there is no league, so the rules should have been enforced and were enforced. Now that the decision is done, you can see what rules do and dont work and fix them. All this complaining and whining is pointless.
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I would say Amen, but I promised not to speak untill spoken to.
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I'd like to think people have realized the point, but there's still at least 8 people, according to the poll, who feel a forfeit was reasonable. Too many people can't exaime the situation without some sort of bias towards eR33t, for whatever reason, and it shouldn't be the case. And this is the precise reason we dropped, should any other ruling come, there's this bias in the administration that we don't want to deal with again.
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y2j, theres a bias in everything. i would have thought possibly you would have gotten most of the reason why they gave you the forfeit in the first place, and that was to uphold the integrity of the league. If they had not given you a forfeit, then all the rules in the league were worthless and there is no league anymore. granted, we lost the game ourselves, and the talking didnt affect that, but you still have to uphold the rules of the league and yes, maybe there is bias in it, but you can't fault the administrators for upholding the rules. What you can fault them for is if they refuse to change their rules or adapt to what the people in the league want. If the rules drive everyone away, theres no one to play in the league, which means there is no league. But until that happens i dont think you can come down quite as hard as you have on this league or the decision they have made.
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Post Match Stress.
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I disagree that upholding the integretiy was the main reason behind the decision.
#1 - The ref should have forfeited them on the spot if it's such a horrible infraction
#2 - There was no due dilligence or thought put into the decision to forfeit. It was an imediate decision made by a bias admin
Look at the results of the poll, it's not like i'm the only one in the world who feels the mm1 has no effect on the game. This was a perfect chance for the league to fix a rule that should be edited. I'm upset because only a few admins were consulted, and I really don't think Gibb watched the demos, and if he did, there's no way he felt the mm1 effected the game, so it should have been a perfect time to change the rule, something that would have happened if it was a clan other than eR33t, against a clan other than ch1ll. All parties involved had to please XB on this decision. I'm sure he told them to rule how they felt, but in their mind they didn't want to do something not status quo, even if it be correct. And that is the problem I have. The lack of out of the box thinking. Everyone has the people they hate, the clans they hate, and can't make a fair decision.
I for one hate team i, but if it was them vs ch1ll and this identical situation, I'd be saying the same things, without a bias, simply because I don't find it fair at all. That one person can't put aside a bias to make a correct rulinig. Judges have to do it all the time, yet our admins can't. I think it's time new admins be saught if thats the case.
ps i don't really hate you guys skater <3
but I really couldn't think of any other teams in pbcup.
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loial learn how to say er33t not e3rrt....been bugging me everytime i read this thread...im behind er33t the hole way...
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lol nice catch
correct spelling- "whole"
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You provide the hotdogs, we'll provide the hall.
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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v393/javacrucian/biggirl.jpg
there's a preview of what you'll get.
From left to right -> Bob, Blitz, DirtyTaco, Gyro.
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ROFL. Another topic that went far into the OTHER section. I blame the Nazi armies.
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lmafo