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Digital Paint Community => Other Stuff => Topic started by: Eiii on September 06, 2006, 12:20:20 PM

Title: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: Eiii on September 06, 2006, 12:20:20 PM

...I'm scared. (http://www.apple.com/trailers/magnolia/jesuscamp/trailer/)

No, really, that's really, really scary. Worst part? When all the kds start cheering at the prospect of 'giving up their lives' for Jesus.

The chanting is scary too.
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Post by: Dirty_Taco on September 06, 2006, 01:39:09 PM
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Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: S8NSSON on September 06, 2006, 02:36:35 PM
YEAH...
That and "Loose Change" really intercourse up this country.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: pinobot on September 06, 2006, 03:28:09 PM
Sorry kids, the world ends in 2012, if you stay christians you will all die a virgin.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: Wolf Man on September 06, 2006, 03:47:56 PM
Here, here. The world may end sooner, we already have like 1200 nukes. Were all going to blow ourselves up.
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Post by: IronFist on September 06, 2006, 04:11:41 PM
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Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: Lunatic on September 06, 2006, 04:20:39 PM
That is pretty intercoursed up.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: TinMan on September 06, 2006, 04:25:32 PM
You all know the truth...chant it with me:
Lucifer is Lord
Lucifer is Lord
Lucifer is Lord
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: Wolf Man on September 06, 2006, 04:27:30 PM
 Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God! Hail God!





And thats an average christian mass.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: Eiii on September 06, 2006, 07:43:13 PM
You mean Heil.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: TinMan on September 06, 2006, 07:45:37 PM
ROFL!
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: Cobo on September 06, 2006, 10:17:54 PM
Hahaha, owned.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: jitspoe on September 07, 2006, 04:07:22 AM
Sacrificing your life for a greater cause is usually seen as commendable.  At least it used to be.  The chanting is no more frightening than what you might see from fans at a football game... actually probably far less frightening.  Children are going to be influenced by something.  With so many single parents and families where both parents work full time, what's left?  TV?  Movies?  Rap lyrics?  Even if you're an atheist, surely you believe that some of the basic Christian teachings (love your neighbors, don't murder/lie/steal/etc.) are better than the alternatives.  Imagine a world where everybody had a good set of morals and went out of their way to do the right thing.  Is that scary?  Perhaps those kids are indoctrinated, but they aren't void of all decision making capabilities.  For what it's worth, despite how they were portrayed in the video, camps like that actually are a lot of fun.  It's a shame if you were never able to attend one.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: Smokey on September 07, 2006, 06:33:40 AM
Raptor Jesus > You.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: pinobot on September 07, 2006, 08:46:52 AM
Even if you're an atheist, surely you believe that some of the basic Christian teachings (love your neighbors, don't murder/lie/steal/etc.) are better than the alternatives.
One name: George Bush
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: Eiii on September 07, 2006, 10:01:23 AM
For what it's worth, despite how they were portrayed in the video, camps like that actually are a lot of fun.  It's a shame if you were never able to attend one.

I did. It was fun only because there was one religion-based activity the whole weekend and I wasn't required to participate. That camp, however, doesn't look like the one I went to. I also don't believe the lack of religion would strip people of all their morals, or that those children are taught good morals or to 'do the right thing' about 50% in that camp.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: S8NSSON on September 07, 2006, 12:01:50 PM
The world would be a much different place without religion.
I think it is religion, and religion alone, that keeps the human race from living a much more violent and hidious life.
Laws are based off religion (don't kill, steal, boink the 15 year old next door, etc...).

Religion is control over the human race...that's all.

Is there a higher power or being? I believe so.

There are many many religions. They all can't be right. They all can't be the "one true religion" of God.

Whether it be the work of God, I do not know, but the bible (any bible in any religion) and everything in it was written by man. As said above, that's not to say the events of the bible(s) (and some of these events are fact) were not a direct influence of this higher power (we'll call God).

What's funny is that when you bring up the whole arguement of there being so many religions and that not all of them can be right, Christians, and others, claim that they are the only true religion of God, and all others are wrong, and if showed the "true" way to God, and they don't accept Jesus, they will go to hell, but those that have not been offered or shown the way to God will not be held accountable (the argument of isolated tribes still worshipping a rock or something). Religious zealots have an answer for everything.

As much as I think organized religion is sham, and that worshipping a greater power on your own in your own house alone is perfectly fine, and that the bible is a good book create to keep us heathens in order, religion is necessary.

I would much rather have my daughter learning about God and Jesus than nothing at all. The moral values she will learn will be valuable. To be raised without religion would mean possibly being raised not understanding that your actions have consequences, which is valuable.

I, personally, don't attend a church (hypocrits to the 10th degree). I simply help those that need help. Try to do good for my family and friends. And talk to our higher power or being on occasion. If this sends me to hell, doh! OK OK so my nick has "satan" in it. Maybe i'm doomed to hell for that!

Who started a thread on religion anyways?
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: S8NSSON on September 07, 2006, 12:04:58 PM
Oh...I was raised Catholic. Did all those Catholic things. Was even an atler boy, without the merry benifits, or couse.
I went to a Catholic school for my first few year. Yep, with nuns as teachers and everything. And yes they crack the excrement out of you knuckles with a ruller when you were bad.

Being a part of the church and all wasn't bad. But as I grew up and started getting into rock music and smokin weed I was treated differently. So intercourse them.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: jitspoe on September 07, 2006, 03:05:28 PM
Quote
Who started a thread on religion anyways?
That would be eiii.  He'll probably tag you for double posting, too.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: Smokey on September 07, 2006, 03:11:25 PM
Raptor jesus > *
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Post by: Dirty_Taco on September 07, 2006, 03:31:44 PM
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Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: SkateR on September 07, 2006, 03:37:02 PM
Just copied and printed that and I'm hading it in for my philosophy class.
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Post by: Dirty_Taco on September 07, 2006, 03:38:51 PM
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Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: pinobot on September 07, 2006, 03:44:23 PM
Just copied and printed that and I'm hading it in for my philosophy class.
darnit SkateR, you'd make a great christian. :P
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: jitspoe on September 07, 2006, 03:58:41 PM
Are morals learned or inherent?  If they are learned, who teaches them?  I imagine it's probably a combination, but there is definitely some learned aspect of morality.  Some societies kill and even eat other humans and it's not considered "wrong" to them.

Also, you might want to properly credit an essay like that -- almost looks like you're taking credit for writing it.  (Since we're on the topic of morals)
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: Smokey on September 07, 2006, 04:02:51 PM
he did... lewl..
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: S8NSSON on September 07, 2006, 04:06:20 PM
Nice words DT...

hmmm perhaps the first moral/religious debate on the paintball forums. Where is fryth when i need him?

/me clears throat and takes a deep breath

God is dead--and with him, Moral Law.

   Without God, there is no longer any objective standard by which to judge good and evil. However, most people still seem to think that a universal morality can be grounded in something other than God's laws: in what is good for people, in what is good for society, in what we feel called upon to do. But explanations of why these standards necessarily constitute "universal moral law" are hard to come by. Usually, the arguments for the existence of moral law are emotional rather than rational: "But don't you think rape is wrong?" moralists ask, as if a shared opinion were proof of a universal truth. "But don't you think people need to believe in something greater than themselves?" they appeal, as if needing to believe in something can make it true. Occasionally, they even resort to threats: "but what would happen if everyone decided that there is no good and evil? Wouldn't we all kill each other?" This question presupposes that people refrain from killing each other simply because they have been taught that it is evil to do so. Is humanity really so absolutely bloodthirsty and vicious that we would all rape and kill each other if we weren’t restrained by superstition?

   The real problem with the idea of universal moral law is that it asserts the existence of something that we have no way to know anything about. Believers in good and evil would have us believe that there are "moral truths"--that is, there are things that are morally true of this world, in the same way that it is true that the sky is blue. They claim that it is true of this world that murder is morally wrong just as it is true that water freezes at 32 desgrees. But we can investigate the freezing temperature of water: we can measure it and agree together that we have arrived at some kind of "objective" truth, insofar as such a thing is possible. On the other hand what do we observe if we want to investigate whether it is true that murder is evil? There is no tablet of moral law on a mountaintop for us to consult, there are no commandments carved into the sky above us; all we have to go on are our own instincts and the words of a bunch of priests and other self-appointed moral experts, many of whom don't even agree. As for the words of priests and moralists, if they can't offer any hard evidence from this world, why should we believe their claims? And regarding our instincts--if we feel that something is right or wrong, that may make it right or wrong for us, but that's not proof that is it universally good or evil. Thus, the idea that there are universal moral laws is mere superstition: it is a claim that things exist in this world which we can never actually experience or learn anything about. And we would do well not to waste our time wondering about things we can never know anything about.

   When two people fundamentally disagree over what is right or wrong, there is no way to resolve the debate. There is nothing in this world to which they can refer to see which one is correct--because there really are no universal moral laws, just personal evaluations. So the only important question is where your values come from: do you create them yourself, according to your own desires, or do you accept them from someone else. . . someone else who has disguised their opinions as "universal truths"?

   Haven't you always been a little suspicious of moral truths, anyway? This world is filled with groups and individuals who want to convert you to their religions, their dogmas, their political agendas, their opinions. Of course they will tell you one set of values is true for everybody, and of course they will tell you that their values are the correct ones. Once you're convinced that there is only one standard of right and wrong, they're only one step away from convincing you that their standard is the right one. How carfully we should approach those who would sell us the idea of "universal moral law" then! Their claim that morality is a matter of universal law is at base just a devious way to get us to accept their values, rather than forging values of our own which might conflict with theirs.

   So, to protect ourselves from the supersititions of the moralists and the trickery of the evangelists, let us be done with the idea of moral law. Lets us step forward into a new era, in which we will make values of our own rather than acceptings moral laws out of fear and obedience. Let this be our new creed:

   There is no universal moral code that should dictate human behavior. There is no such thing as good or evil, there is no universal standard of right and wrong. Our values and morals come from us and belong to us, whether we like it or not; so we should claim them proudly for ourselves, as our own creations, rather than seeking external justification for them.


Quote
Will: Were you gonna plagiarize the whole thing for us? Do you have any thoughts of your own on this matter? Or do you, is that your thing, you come into a bar, read some obscure passage and then pretend - you pawn it off as your own, as your own idea just to impress some girls, embarrass my friend?

Will: See, the sad thing about a guy like you is, in 50 years you're gonna start doin' some thinkin' on your own and you're going to come up with the fact that there are two certainties in life: one, don't do that, and two, you dropped 150 grand on a f***in' education you could have got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library!

http://www.crimethinc.com/library/english/nogods.html

teehee!
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: pinobot on September 07, 2006, 04:08:11 PM
Our morality is based on our instinct, that's why people in a remote location that never even heared of a guy called Jesus are not so different to us.
Lets see:
Animals would fights over territory, territory to an Animal  means resources (food/water/other stuff).
Humans fight over territory, territory to a human means resources.
Animals (of the same species) don't usually kill each other, only enemies.
Guess what, so do humans.
Humans live in a group that's has a leader.
What do you know, a lot of animals do exactly that.
You can go on forever finding similarities between humans and animals, you wanna know why, because we're also animals.
Have you ever heared about a species that got extinct because they killed each other for a lack of morality, it's all cowdung, don't get me started.

Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: S8NSSON on September 07, 2006, 04:13:26 PM
Agent Smith: I'd like to share a revelation that I’ve had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species, and I realised that humans are not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment; but you humans do not. Instead you multiply, and multiply, until every resource is consumed. The only way for you to survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern... a virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer on this planet, you are a plague, and we... are the cure.
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Post by: IronFist on September 07, 2006, 04:16:22 PM
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Post by: Dirty_Taco on September 07, 2006, 05:26:41 PM
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Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: Smokey on September 07, 2006, 05:30:02 PM
If you actually for a second, thought i wrote that myself, then wow you're slow. First off i would never take the time to think that through and write it for a gaming forum, especially where the community is comprised of primarily 12 year old germans and idiots. I simply don't have enough time for that. I didn't credit the authors with the writing because, well, heres why:

   ...we hope you'll use this as a tool in your own efforst--not just to hink about this world, but also to change it. This book is composed of ideas and images we've remorselessly stolen and adjusted to our purposes and we hope you'll do exactly the same with its contents. . . But please by all means use the images for posters, take sentences for your own writing, reinterpret ideas and claim them as your own inventions, turn in the articles as papers for your sociology class--if you must turn those papers in, that is!



you did. GUD JAWB
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: Eiii on September 07, 2006, 07:29:35 PM
Dear god, what have I spawned? Just some things:

Without religion (or, at least mostly western religion) I think the world would be a much better place. Less wars, and such. Jits seemed to be implying that solely religion teaches morals. That's not true at all. Without religion, most people would have just as many morals.

I'm mostly talking about Christianity.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: jitspoe on September 07, 2006, 07:36:06 PM
Sadly it can't really be proven one way or the other.  Where did you learn your set of morals from, just out of curiosity?
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: Eiii on September 07, 2006, 07:56:13 PM
My parents, the earlier stages of school, why? Do they only enforce morals at church now?
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: Smokey on September 07, 2006, 08:04:06 PM
who else laughed at the kid with the mullet?
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Post by: Dirty_Taco on September 07, 2006, 08:51:02 PM
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Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: jitspoe on September 07, 2006, 09:06:24 PM
Proving the absence of something is a rather difficult task -- even if it's a simple object or concept.  I don't have a football, for example, but proving it to a skeptical person would be nearly impossible.
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Post by: Dirty_Taco on September 07, 2006, 09:36:01 PM
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Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: Smokey on September 07, 2006, 09:56:16 PM
Silly of you all to not notice the true problem in that video, the kid has a mullet...  :o
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: pinobot on September 07, 2006, 09:57:36 PM
Christians: "Accept our morals or be killed and meet our God and he'll hurt you some more."

Seriously, i'm a protestant, i was baptised so i can say anything and still go to heaven. :P
Christians are strange people, when i was about 7 year old i went to sunday school a few times. Not really a school, a church with some kids running around and glueing paper together is what i remember. After a few times they said there would be no more sunday school, reason: not enough children. :-\ Christians and money, don't get me started.  :-X
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: pinobot on September 07, 2006, 10:15:03 PM
Proving the absence of something is a rather difficult task -- even if it's a simple object or concept.  I don't have a football, for example, but proving it to a skeptical person would be nearly impossible.
If he believes you have a football then he is not a skeptical person at all, he is a believer. But if he takes you word for it and believes you don't have a football the he is a believer also.
I think you can only be skeptical if there is any proof, if for instance someone would claim he can bend spoons and show it to you. I can't be skeptical of God, there is no "proof" so it's a non issue, if a christian would show me scientific proof then can i be sceptical.
It's all so confusing.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: TinMan on September 07, 2006, 10:15:38 PM
Christian's also have a LOT of blood on their past.

What's that? Love thy neighbor? But he/she doesn't believe in you God....what's that? BURN THEM!?!?!?!?!?!? If you say so.

Of course the "burn them" wouldn't really be the voice of god...
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: loial21 on September 07, 2006, 10:56:24 PM
Bah it wont play.

With out guiding principals your house would have been robbed your land decimated. You and loved ones beaten, sodomized then murdered or worse enslaved. Without those principals it is a matter of 'survival of the fitest'. 
 
Zealots is what I think you guys witnessed and speak about. That is just blasphemy at its worst and to those that are Zealots I ask this.....

"What is better to have? Hope, Faith or Charity." 


Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: TinMan on September 07, 2006, 11:16:24 PM
Hope...but I think of hope and faith as one and the same, faith just pops up as a little religious to me for some reason although it isn't defined to be that.

P.S.
Limp Bizkit's cover of "Faith" ownz.
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Post by: Dirty_Taco on September 08, 2006, 01:34:28 AM
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Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: Eiii on September 08, 2006, 01:46:20 AM
Hey Loial: Religion isn't (the only thing) what keeps people from doing bad things. Without it, I don't think there would be any significant difference in the relative morals of people, though the morals may have been different.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: loial21 on September 08, 2006, 02:27:40 AM
" your house would have been robbed your land decimated. You and loved ones beaten, sodomized then murdered or worse enslaved."

Hmm.... So many different Christian-backed events that could fit this description. The Crusades, the spanish conquest of mexico, Columbus discovering Native Americans, African Slavery just to name a few. I'm sure this list could go on and on.
Yes it does go on and on and on. They are called ZEALOTS!!!

All of them zealots in one form or another. Agreed in the name Christ for the first few mentioned and in the name of money in the last.

I challenge any of you to find me one charitable, humble and meek leader that caused such sins.

I am not defending religion as the savior of this world. Just pointing out without a moral compass, all of us are doomed to survival like animals. Pure Logic.


Quote
Without it, I don't think
Lets start there. Your thoughts is it guided by something like logic? Or is it random?

Tinman that was a question asked of Jesus the Jew. His answer was profound.

Charity. Only actions matter. Not wishes or intentions. I find this logical for some reason.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: Excalibur on September 08, 2006, 02:48:11 AM
Proving the absence of something is a rather difficult task -- even if it's a simple object or concept.  I don't have a football, for example, but proving it to a skeptical person would be nearly impossible.

i just read that and its true. its like saying there is no gold in china. to know there is no gold in china you would have to look under every rock, in everyones mouth for fillings, in every tree, every spec of dust... and on and on. but to say there is gold in china all you would have to do is find 1 spec and its true.

i would also like to say that I'm a Christian "protestant" and i believe another one here is because i saw him on another forum..."you know who you are if you remember my pm and email" "have not read all the posts so don't know if he said he was or not. not hiding his info from you guys but just out of his privacy i will let him say it" but i do agree with most of the stuff that i did see in that vid. yes some stuff was over kill. but think of some of the Muslims willing to die for their believes when most Christians are not even willing to talk to someone about theirs.


There is no universal moral code that should dictate human behavior. There is no such thing as good or evil, there is no universal standard of right and wrong. Our values and morals come from us and belong to us, whether we like it or not; so we should claim them proudly for ourselves, as our own creations, rather than seeking external justification for them.

Are morals learned or inherent?  If they are learned, who teaches them?  I imagine it's probably a combination, but there is definitely some learned aspect of morality.  Some societies kill and even eat other humans and it's not considered "wrong" to them.

i think jitspoe said it well there. when one group of people don't think killing everyone is wrong if there was no law at all then we would all just go around doing whatever we wanted and a lot of deaths would happen. think of a world with no cops "why have cops if someone kills taco its not wrong.

With out guiding principals your house would have been robbed your land decimated. You and loved ones beaten, sodomized then murdered or worse enslaved. Without those principals it is a matter of 'survival of the fitest'.
amen

and yes lots of bad things have been done in the name of God and a lot have been done and those doing it say they are Christians. but they are false Christians. you must understand just because they say they are Christians they might not be. you are known by your actions. no matter how Christian you say you are if your actions don't back up the Word of God then you are no Christian.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: loial21 on September 08, 2006, 02:57:49 AM
All,

Charity is done with out faith or hope that god is real. It is done.

That is the logic of Charity!
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: S8NSSON on September 08, 2006, 08:38:39 AM
Loial, wtf are you talking about, charity? (please...i'm not really looking for an answer to this....i wouldn't understand what you wrote anyways).

Pretty much sounds like most of us are saying the same thing using different words.

So:
1) Is there a God? ... Dunno, but i'll shake his hand when he gets here.
2) Do we need God? ... Hell yeah, or we run amuck in the streets
3) Is loial merry? ... Ask his boyfriend.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: jitspoe on September 08, 2006, 12:58:03 PM
It's true that there have been things done supposedly in the name of Christ that are... morally incorrect.  Realistically, though, I don't see how you can call these people Christians.  "Christian" implies that they follow the teachings of Christ, and running around murdering and raping people certainly does not fall under that category.  Hypocrites like that are far worse than the heathens.

Another thing: anti-religious people seem to have very selective memory and often fail to realize that kind of behavior is the exception, not the rule.  Christian organizations like The Salvation Army have done a number of great things to help people in need.
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Post by: Dirty_Taco on September 08, 2006, 01:56:37 PM
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Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: Smokey on September 08, 2006, 04:30:02 PM
http://whygodexists.ytmnd.com/


GG
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: pinobot on September 08, 2006, 04:42:37 PM
I think it very typical for christians to dismiss christians that do "bad" things as not true christians.
You can also say that muslims that do bad things are not true moslims, communists that do bad thing are not true communists and non-believers that do bad things are not true non-believers.
Fact of the matter is that most christians in the USA support the warmonger George Bush.
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Post by: Dirty_Taco on September 08, 2006, 05:04:10 PM
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Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: jitspoe on September 08, 2006, 05:19:42 PM
I don't think anybody was debating the existence of God.  That's pretty much a dead-end debate in a message board.  I think the topic of conversation here is more whether or not the belief in (a) God and following a set of supposedly divine-inspired morals betters society or not.
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Post by: Dirty_Taco on September 08, 2006, 06:19:50 PM
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Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: Eiii on September 08, 2006, 07:41:51 PM
http://whygodexists.ytmnd.com/
GG

http://responsetowhygodexists.ytmnd.com/
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Post by: Dirty_Taco on September 08, 2006, 08:00:40 PM
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Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: pinobot on September 08, 2006, 08:03:38 PM
http://whygodexists.ytmnd.com/
GG
http://responsetowhygodexists.ytmnd.com/
Is there a slower version? It's all too fast for me because english is not my native language.
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Post by: IronFist on September 08, 2006, 08:08:21 PM
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Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: pinobot on September 08, 2006, 08:28:41 PM
I think it's not time+space+matter but more correctly time+space+energy.
The Universe is filled with vacuum energy that is created by time and space itself, so if energy can be created by just time and space alone then maybe in the beginning there was only time/space, the energy/matter was just a by-product.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_energy
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: loial21 on September 09, 2006, 01:19:08 AM
It's true that there have been things done supposedly in the name of Christ that are... morally incorrect.  Realistically, though, I don't see how you can call these people Christians.  "Christian" implies that they follow the teachings of Christ, and running around murdering and raping people certainly does not fall under that category.  Hypocrites like that are far worse than the heathens.

Another thing: anti-religious people seem to have very selective memory and often fail to realize that kind of behavior is the exception, not the rule.  Christian organizations like The Salvation Army have done a number of great things to help people in need.


AND

I think the topic of conversation here is more whether or not the belief in (a) God and following a set of supposedly divine-inspired morals betters society or not.
Not in my words but as accurate as mine were intended, regarding zealots and charity.




Taco you did point out 'Christian' backed events. Regardless of your intent. I pointed out that they were not Christians but zealots. No assumptions there. Just clearing up that statement for those who dont know any different.

Also I was not trying to debunk any major point you were trying to make. Most of which at their core were expressed in a John Lennon song. jk :) Try being nice and not so negatively assumptive.



Title: Re:CHRISTIANITY
Post by: {appy Hamper on September 09, 2006, 11:39:44 PM
what happens to us when we die?
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: TinMan on September 09, 2006, 11:51:55 PM
Your body stops functioning...as for your "exhistance": some think that the chemical reactions that happen in your brain as its shutting down may seem like an eternity, thus a sorta heaven-like exhistance that can last an eternity within a second, when it really doesn't.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: {appy Hamper on September 09, 2006, 11:57:38 PM
that's rediculous.  The fact that 'they' relate death to some kind of eternity seems a little less than original.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: TinMan on September 10, 2006, 12:16:03 AM
Well, if you've even had your heart stopped or anything like that, you'd probably know the experience of having a second seem literally like an eternity, even though after you can't remember it all, you know that it seemed years long.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: loial21 on September 10, 2006, 04:59:32 AM
what happens to us when we die?

self perception varies.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: pinobot on September 11, 2006, 08:02:19 AM
what happens to us when we die?
Your family plunders your home and starts fighting over who gets what.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: S8NSSON on September 11, 2006, 11:35:34 AM
The existance of a God is a matter of faith, period.
The existance of a God cannot be scientifically proven or dispoven.

Nothing can be proven 100%.
The theory that the universe was formed from a singularity is based on convincing evidence, but is, itself, unprovable 100%. That which we can hold, touch, and test can be proven with a high degree of confidence, yet is still not 100%. So that which we cannot examine so closely grows farther from 100% provable.

Everything is a matter of faith.
Red is red because you believe it is red. You have been taught it is red. And all evidence that you have been taught to compare red against tells you it is red. But, red cannot be proven 100% to be red.

...........................
I've been kind of day dreaming about a game environment.
A matrix-like game environment where you sit in a chair, have some probes attached to you, and the computer takes over your senses and injects you into a realistic game environment.

Then I thought of the computing power it would take to create such a thing.
I thought of a sort of harmonic vaccum chamber that oscolates attoms in a pattern that cause them to pass through a detector/effector machanism essentially becoming the ones and zeros of our known computer world. Then I thought this computer, if ever able to become real, could be infinately powerful.

This lead to me thinking of universe simulator programmed with the laws of life. Physical laws, chemicals laws, etc... Then, at the flick of a switch, a big bang that injects all these things into a virtual space and allows them to progress according to the laws we know and have programmed the simulation with.

Then I thought...what if? What if we could inject ourself into this virtual world. Maybe even having the simulation exist virtually on an accelarate scale? Maybe something to the order of 1 real minute equals 100 virtual years, or more. And what if our simulator was taught to program and adjust itself? And as our computer gained knowledge it became aware of something never thought of by its creator. It tells us that, as we have create a simulated universe accurately existing according to preprogrammed laws, we creators are also a simulation existing according to preprogrammed laws. Our universe is a simulated universe. In various parts of the universe various experiments in life simulation are taking place. And, when the simulated life becomes aware of its creator it is programatically eliminated in the form of a supernova that destroys those aware simulated people. This keeps the simulation running without the catastrophy of the realization of thier mere simulated existance.

Ok...wrote way too much.

Anyways...crazy, huh?
Not very provable either?
But my little story does, at the very least, have a greater than 0% probablilty of being true.

Would make a cool movie too!
I'm actually considering writing a book on it.

BTW, that whole thing above isn't something i've thought about on a lonely Sunday evening. It's been an ongoing set of thinkings that have expanded and formed over a pretty long time.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: jitspoe on September 11, 2006, 04:34:29 PM
You aren't the only one to have such thoughts, but I don't know that there's much feasibility in simulating a universe using the resources of only a minuscule portion of the existing universe.  It would be, however, possible to simulate something on a much smaller scale.  Perhaps that's what this universe is: a small simulation created by curious scientists of a greater universe.
Title: _
Post by: IronFist on September 11, 2006, 04:39:02 PM
Post removed
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: loial21 on September 11, 2006, 09:50:27 PM
Quote
that have expanded and formed over a pretty long time.
Before Christ I am betting. Stubborn old goat. Nice story.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: S8NATHOME on September 11, 2006, 10:53:15 PM
Quote
but I don't know that there's much feasibility in simulating a universe using the resources of only a minuscule portion of the existing universe.  It would be, however, possible to simulate something on a much smaller scale.  Perhaps that's what this universe is: a small simulation created by curious scientists of a greater universe.

Ahhhh you do realize that you have said this wouldn't be feasible for us, but said our universe may be simulated by scientists from a greater universe. Same thing isn't it? Wouldn't the scientists of that greater universe also be restricted in their knowledge of their universe in creating our universe?

My thinking in the simulation of the universe simply considers what we know (physics, elements, etc...) and use that to model the entire universe. This may not be accurate, but it may. It would work though, regardless. It may not accurately model our universe, but it would succeed in modeling a working universe from a singularity. Just add elements and rules.

The whole point of the story I was thinking of, though, is sort of an irony. This simulated universe was created and plugged into our information systems in order to better simulate our universe only to tell us that we, too, are a simulation. I have like lots of details with conflicts and resolutions and such in my head.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: Eiii on September 12, 2006, 01:55:35 AM
(http://eri3ch.googlepages.com/jesuslol.jpg) (http://eri3ch.googlepages.com/jesuslol.jpg)

The first one doesn't really work, but the rest is good.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: S8NSSON on September 12, 2006, 12:22:47 PM
Ok...so I got to thinking.
THen I got to writing.

This is very undeveloped. Much of what you read here will have to be exapnded upon further. But it's a start.

Hope ya like it so far.

Quote
Nothing is random. Rules govern everything we know in the universe. From the largest star to the tiny atom, everything acts and reacts according to the laws of physics. For this reason everything can be calculated mathematically. Man has spent many years developing what they would call “random” number generators. Random number generators have been crucial in the development of every security feature in place today. But, no matter how hard we try, or how obscure we get, these random number generator based encryption security techniques will always abide by rules, and therefore be predictable.

All encryption engineers know this. Their only fight against prediction is to increase the steps require in order to predict. If you had a secret hideout that required turning one corner to get to it, your hideout would be easily found. If your hideout required 10, or even 1000 turns to get to it, that would make finding you hideout more difficult. Random number generators work on this same philosophy. Increase the complexity and number of calculations required to produce a number and it will appear random.

Of course, security features, such as encryption techniques, must be predictable in order to be decipherable at some later date. Where the real research and development of random number generators has excelled is in simulation. Man has used simulation to attempt to look into actions of interest since being. Imagine early man using a stick to scratch out a simple plan of attack on their prey. They were, in a sense, simulating the attack, learning from it, and then using that knowledge to increase their chances of success. Today we use simulation to attempt to predict everything from weather to the stock market, to artificial intelligence. The random number generators used for such simulators do not require easy predictability. These systems strive to be truly random and unpredictable. But they are still governed by rules, and will still remain predictable, even if it is on a vastly obscure scale.

Krylos was activated on December 17, 2137. Krylos is the first non-simulated harmonic core process computer. Until this day harmonic core process (HCP) computers were merely a simulation carried out inside other computers. The simulations revealed staggering numbers. Almost infinite processing power was theoretically possible with a HCP computer. Simulation was about to become possible on a grand scale.

Harmonic Core Processing is the brainchild of Wil Russell, a self-taught computer wiz from Stockbridge, Georgia. Wil, now 28, spent his childhood gaming online during the VR boom of 2116. With advancements in computer technology, virtual reality had really taken off. It was scary, actually. People were dieing at their computers because they couldn’t break away from the virtual world. 72 hours straight in VR was not unheard of, and anything over that was extreme and very dangerous. People had grown fat and lazy, and VR allowed anyone to escape this lazy world and become a perfect supermodel or secret agent.

Computer advancement increased exponentially with the creation of organic solid processing in 2044. In 2122, at the age of 13, Wil had developed the theory of HCP while studying the abnormal fireworks display that occurred behind your closed eye when a power outage struck any VR terminal. Great studies were performed on the phenomenon. When a power outage occurred on an occupied VR system connected to the net a residual energy oscillation occurred. These power outages created thunderstorm-like visual patterns that oscillated and folded into itself repeatedly. Wil had seen these patterns in his VR studies of weather patterns. Although Wil was an avid gamer, he spent most of his VR time studying. He was a genius with a thirst for the knowledge that the VR world had to offer.

Wil theorized that if one could harmonically oscillate charged particles, change their state, and read their state, one could use this as a processor. Wil spent the next 15 years studying and simulating his theories. The results were mind blowing. A low voltage charge could be arced across a set of probes creating a harmonic oscillating magnetic field similar to the magnetic field in constant motion around heavenly bodies. The very probes that created the arc could read each atom as it passed through the central point of the field. In simulation this proved to be extremely fast. Simulations measured the process possibility to be several billion times faster than the fastest processors thus far. And power consumption, something that has plagued modern computing for decades, was shown to be a mere fraction of what it took to light the average 40 watt light bulb. The process was very orderly. In a vacuum, cycle loss due to errant atoms was negligible, and almost beyond measure. Out side a vacuum, cycle loss was much greater, but then again, processing power showed to be so fast that this loss could be made up in redundant cycle checks, and still yield performance ridiculously far beyond anything available today. Wil didn’t know it, but these non-vacuum tests would prove to be the key to the universe.

Wil was ready. Wil had one goal in mind for Krylos, human simulation. This was the holy grail of simulation. Although there have been many very good simulations of humans and artificial intelligence, they were still imperfect, and by a very wide margin. Wil hoped, or better yet, prayed, that his creation would produce a better human simulation. He was right, very right. Wil had accumulated all the know rule sets for the most advanced artificial intelligence available. As he activated Krylos he waited patiently, ready to inject the rules that define man. Wil stared intensely at the set of probes aimed towards the center of the small vacuum chamber. The probes intensly began to glow bright blue. They were almost unbearable to look at. A faint bowtie shaped halo soon formed around the glowing probes. “The harmonic cycles,” Wil thought to himself, “it’s beautiful!” In an instant Krylos came to life and the rule injection routines were automatically activated without hesitation.

Wil sat motionless, the bright blue glow flashed rhythmically across his face. Wil estimated it would take a few minutes for Krylos to accept and activate its instructions. But in the blink of an eye Krylos showed ready.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: jitspoe on September 12, 2006, 01:18:02 PM
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/f/f9/Krylos.jpg
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: TinMan on September 12, 2006, 02:26:50 PM
http://mygeekyplace.net/jesus.html
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: jitspoe on September 12, 2006, 02:54:32 PM
"see that black man crossing the street" cracked me up.
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: S8NSSON on September 13, 2006, 08:52:39 AM
the "lol"s were annoying

*SPELL CHECK IGNORED"
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: Excalibur on September 16, 2006, 04:43:33 AM
i hate to bring back a old topic but this just in http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_4340346
Title: Re: GOD darn IT CHRISTIANITY
Post by: loial21 on September 16, 2006, 06:08:29 AM
A Jew, an ex-Catholic and the Denver area don't mix very well.