Poll

Do you believe in evolution?

Yes.
No.

Author Topic: Evolution  (Read 5504 times)

jitspoe

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2005, 09:55:57 PM »
No, it was just an example of how far fetched evolution is.

Eiii

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2005, 10:14:12 PM »
Uhhh... It didn't happen overnight. It took billion and billion of years, and every species went through billions and billions of stages. If you set a million monkeys at typewriters...

loial21

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2005, 12:21:24 AM »
Is there matter that takes mass and volume?
 
From what is the origin of this matter? 


 

Eiii

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2005, 02:24:44 AM »
As far as we know, the universe has existed forever. Existance can't just poof into existance, so there has to have been something the whole time, which is mind-boggling.

Think of it this way: Existance has always existed. You can't have nothing in this existance. So, there must have been some matter that started...

jitspoe

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2005, 02:56:09 AM »
The concept of nothing is more mind boggling than the concept of there always being something, I think.

"billions."  Heh, they always say that.  "Yeah, it's insanely improbable, but with billions of years, anything can happen, right?"

Ok, so do a little research.  How many structures would be necessary to form the DNA and whatnot for the very simplest living creature?  Then calculate the probability that you could get that configuration.  I think it's somewhere on the order of 10^40000 to 1.  That means if you were very generous and considered the earth could generate one configuration every millisecond, it would take approximately...

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jitspoe

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2005, 02:56:29 AM »
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jitspoe

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2005, 02:59:31 AM »
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billion years to come up with that configuration.  And even if you did, it wouldn't likely be alive.  Scientists have yet to be able to synthetically create life even after you skip past that huge number.

And that's just step 1 of evolution.  I see equally glaring problems in every other stage as well.

Eiii

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2005, 12:37:21 PM »
If you'll notice, not every planet has life popping up everywhere. The earth was extremely lucky, and humans were extremely luckier.

And I'm assuming that a life could evolve that doesn't use water, and it probably could.


And you may notice that most animals have VERY CLOSE TO THE SAME DNA CONFIGURATION. One kind of animal/cell got this configuration, and then things probably just took off, and that animal took over. Then, it changed.

Also, here's an example. There is a very strange mutation in humans that lets them have the sexual organs of both sexes. This has only been recorded to happen twice, and I wouldn't be suprised if those was the only two times that it happened. Both times, the person has undergone an operation or something (Well, I know at least one did. The other might have been killed, depending on when it was born.)
Now, if the mutation hadn't been gotten rid of, in the early days of human evolution, they would have quickly taken over due to pure reproductive speed. However, this small change would make the population EXTREMELY inbred, making them very vunerable to genitic diseases or viruses, and most likely wiping them out.
Just showing how a tiny change can make or break a species.

jitspoe

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2005, 12:59:24 PM »
Extremely lucky... it takes more than luck to overcome a statistical impossibility.  And like I said, that's just your chances of getting the right configuration of molecules.  Even if you have that, your chances of making that configuration come alive are... well, it hasn't been done yet.

As for your hermaphrodite example: this isn't evolution.  The genes for both sexes are already present.  It's just that they don't normally activate simultaneously.  You need to find an example where an animal generated a completely new organ that has never existed anywhere before.

Eiii

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2005, 04:49:13 PM »
Actually, the hermaphrodite thing is evolution. You know about the XX/XY thing? The hermaphrodite is YY, I believe.

And organs don't just poof in to existance. Eyes started as photosensitive cells, and slowly evolved.

Here's another way of putting it: You have more of a chance of flipping heads 100 times in a row on a coin than 100 coins just appearing before your eyes.

jitspoe

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2005, 06:14:03 PM »
But my point is X and Y are already present.  Unless Z comes along, you can only get different combinations of what's already there.

OK, say you have blue and red legos.  You can build something blue.  You can build something red.  You can even build a "hermaphrodite" by combining blue and red.  However, you can't build something yellow, because you don't have any yellow legos.  No matter how many different ways you configure your blue and red legos, you won't get yellow.

Eiii

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2005, 06:37:02 PM »
Um... no. Using your example (which is also bad), you could say at some point there was a problem in the factory making the legos. And, it made a yellow lego. Using an even worse example, people like the new yellow legos. So, they made more.

Cobo

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2005, 07:27:20 PM »
a Z chromosome is just not going to pop in because evolution is made by little changes and takes time.

jitspoe

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2005, 08:32:14 PM »
Um... no. Using your example (which is also bad), you could say at some point there was a problem in the factory making the legos.
However, this was not the case in your hermaphrodite example.  Give an example where new genetic information has been added.

Cobo: new genetic information has to pop up from somewhere, otherwise life would never start to begin with.

Cobo

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2005, 09:41:48 PM »
yeah but it wouldnt be like a radical change.
an X chromosome is not going to look like a Z all of the sudden

KnacK

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #35 on: August 27, 2005, 11:42:10 PM »
One of the 3 topics you never talk about with strangers....

loial21

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2005, 09:27:36 PM »
One of the 3 topics you never talk about with strangers....
the other 2?
sex and politics?

Eiii

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2005, 10:03:27 PM »
I'd guess politics and religion.

loial21

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Re: Evolution
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2005, 05:49:42 PM »
politics for me is semi-religion, since its plays a part in our ethics.