_

[Blitz]

Well said, however verbose. Big brother is watching...

[oddjob]

Yeah digi you are right, I must have just passed over them cause i knew the maps. And also I said that i might be off base on the arctic3 map

[digi]

Yeah digi you are right, I must have just passed over them cause i knew the maps. And also I said that i might be off base on the arctic3 map

=)

[DrRickDaglessMD]

wow.

Well ok, here we go. If my comments are 'very Ad Hominem', it seems rather hypocritical to begin with 'I would like to start by annihiliating RickDaglesses credibility'. The very fact you had to highlight the portion of your sizeable post worth reading frankly stuns me. Especially after I said I didn't need a flame war. I'm aware what I said was potentially inflammatory, but it is nonetheless true and everyone else bar you and digi were able to provide constructive input(despite how many oh so intelligent sounding disses to my clan, which have nothing to do with the purpose of this thread OR what I posted).

You're right, I DONT have as much practice on some of these maps as you. Fair enough. However, you accuse me and my clan (both of which's names you can't even spell; Dr Rick Dagless M.D, [-DarkP-], respectively) of a number of things which are basically untrue and have NOTHING to do with this discussion on map lists. For one, we used to frequent IRC and had our own channel set up by Xile - #darkp on irc.enterthegame.com. Furthermore, when we owned a server, its maplist was populated by a rather diverse selection of maps, 90% of which weren't currently on rotation on any existing server at that time. I guess you missed all that, huh. Also, I prefer to avoid people like you in this 'clan community' because lets face it, you're not very likeable people. I prefer to spend my time in the community having a laugh with pure and the lads in Memi, or talking to Aura, Rocker, Snipen, Demi, etc.. on vent where 'fun' was actually a thing and not something you force on someone because they are n00bs if you disagree. Our clan has about 50 matches under its belt; we've been playing for 2 years. Admittedly compared to a lot of others this isn't exactly ages, but 2 years is 2 years. You just simply make unfounded accusations and assumptions about me and [-DarkP-] for nothing but your own indignance about having your map list picked apart. I wasn't exactly kind to Jitspoes maps that feature, yet he didn't find it necessary to write a 1,581 word essay on how I personally was wrong. As you said, mine was the only post that had any argument behind the criticisms, yet you pay me no respect and only stand to personally attack me. One assumption you failed to make was that me and my clan aren't like er33t in any way, we play for FUN ONLY. That’s why Memi who balance fun with dedication may never beat you, but will always be a greater clan, in my opinion.

On the subject where you say 'everytime i've been in contact with this clan, mainly through pub, i have been harassed about my maps and my playing over and over again.', I have personally never done that to you. My clan mates say they only wind you up because of how you act to other players, but I’m afraid that has nothing to do with me, the pbcup maplist, or my opinion on it. Doesn’t help you had a bind that alluded to Reed and Sanchez being ’14 year old Germans’ either.

All anyone has to do is stand back from this thread and see how the land lies. I make risky, but honest opinions made clear, you and your clan form up against me to verbally abuse me and 'annihilate my credibility'. All this is just indicative of the attitudes that govern DP these days. Apparently no-one can disagree with you because you and er33t are the sole bastions of skill and sportsmanship in the game, any dissenters need to be picked apart and basically called n00bs as if they are disagreeing with you then they are OBVIOUSLY morons who know nothing, when they offer constructive criticism. The best part is, you have no idea what you are talking about when you talk about me and [-DarkP-]. None at all.

At the dawn of our DP careers, maps like pb_shreds1 and 2 were played a lot, we aren’t afraid of playing large maps, but I just don’t feel that the maplist shown is the most prudent selection. The paragraph that begins ‘Crimethink’ just screams one thing to me: ‘I made this map, my team is sh*t hot on it, you lot have NO chance. But I’m trying really hard to justify it like you would have a chance, so there’. 

This began as feedback on the first draft maplist, but changed into a vitriolic quest against me by Dirty Taco. Blitz's apathetic comment above 'Anyway, we'll live.' is saddening because it just makes me think that this community will never change. All that this does in grind into people the submission as when they say anything, this happens. It’s apparent you can’t discuss this matter without taking it personally (probably on account of the fact that’s a 2:1 chance that picking a map at random to take out would be one of yours) so I’d prefer it if you’d keep the slurs against me and [-DarkP-] to a minimum as it has nothing to do with this tourney and this maplist.

I think this tourney is a great idea, I thought it could bring about something new and special to the community, but all I can see is it becoming another system of perpetuating the stagnation. All I can say is that I hope XBain and whoever else is on the ‘administration’ can understand what people are telling them about this and we can all participate in something great. It really wouldn’t hurt to listen, for once – even members of er33t have said they don’t agree with some of the maps.

Also, to everyone else who seems to insinuate I am suggesting playing maps like Indune and Blitz, this couldn’t be more wrong. Oddjob’s suggestion of Cfire intrigued me, after spending some time properly focusing on the map I’d say I’d much rather see it on the list than some of the existing ones. There are some good strategies that emerge from it, I think.

Oh and Digi, if you havent anything constructive to say, just don't bother at all.

Anyway, I’m done.

-   Dr Rick Dagless M.D

P.S so much for ‘ Let's work on some better posts this year.’ Huh, jit.

[Dirty_Taco]

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[P!nk]

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[Sanchez]

Haha, how the hell has my name got brought into this. First off, I wouldn't say I harrassed you. Whenever I've seen you in publics, which isn't much, all you seem to do is say stuff like "ROFL" and "LMAO" etc etc over and over. Everytime you get shot. Now, of course we all know just how supreme you are from everybody else, but all I did was do the same back. I have never claimed DarkP are the "European eR33t", I think that was Reed though? Neither have I really claimed your maps suck. All I've said is I don't particularly enjoy playing them, and that it doesn't seem many other people do (as they leave the server when they come on). So, "i have been harassed about my maps and my playing over and over again", naaah. I was just spoofing you to be honest, spamming repetitive nonsense. Although I'm sure Reed would take blame for half of that stuff you claimed I said. And I dont think DarkP entering PBCup would "settle our issues on the field". I thought the issue was the maplist to begin with?   Ya know, Dagless given feedback like you asked? Meh

And oh yea, Gohans a nob. He's just annoyed that he's homosexual.

[Dirty_Taco]

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[Blitz]

This sub-forum is about PBCup, not eR33t. DirtyTaco just happens to be in my clan, and I don't have much influence on the decion making process with PBCup. If you want to talk about eR33t, you can talk to me.. not one of my members who's hasn't been with us for all that long in the first place. Let's at least attempt to keep these two ideas seperated, and work together constructively.

[Reed]

Hahahahaha.

Lets Get Things Straight. It Wasnt Sanchez Who Started Calling Your Maps excrement, It Was Me. We Were On A Pub Server When The Map Summer.bsp Came On, I Said 'Change This Piece Of S*it Map'. I Think You Said Something Along The Lines Of 'You  Newbie, You Dont Know Anything About Maps.'

I Maintained That Your Maps Are Sh*t, Which They Are. I Think The Lack Of Match Play And Pub Play Summer And Crimethink See Pretty Much Proves This. But Im Not Going To Decimate Your Maps, I Think All The Peoples Feedback In This Post Have Said What Needs To Be Said.

We Harass You Because Youre An Arrogant C*nt And We Know It F*cks You Off.  We Killed You Constantly, As Did Other People, Only To Receive A LMFAO or ROFL!!!!! So We Began To Do The Same, Act Like A C*nt, Get Treated Like One. Don’t Think Were Singling You Out Though, We Gave Fyre And BoB The Same Treatment.

As for DarkP Being The er33t Of Europe This Was Started By Pureblood (In A Post I Think) Saying DarkP Would Beat er33t On A European Server. At No Point Have We Ever Claimed We Could Beat You, Or Attempted To Match You.

And I Still Cant Believe How Big Headed You Are, Just Because Youve Played More Matches Than Us, Or Played For Longer, Doesn’t Make You Any Better Qualified To Judge The Maps Which Should Be Played, And It Doesnt Mean You Should Shun Our Criticism Without Consideration. Snipen And Casso Have Played Longer Than You (To My Knowledge) AND They Own A Series Of Successful Servers, Does That Make Them Better Qualified Than You?

I Think You Ought To Consider Taking Yourself Off The pbcup ‘Administration’ Because You Clearly Have Some Personal Issues Which Will No Doubt Impair Your Judgement. I Don’t Think Youre A Good Representative For The League, Nor The Game In General.

As For Matching You, That Wont Prove Anything, Who Ever Wins, It Wont Change The Fact That Youre A C*nt, And It Wont Stop Me Slamming Your Maps. In Fact It Will Probably Only Fuel Your Arrogance.

Just Want To Point Out That Rick Was Being Purely Objective In His Posts, And Did Even Suggest Some Maps, It Was You Who Began The Personal Attack On Him And Our Clan.

Sorry To Take It Off Topic Again, But Things Had To Be Said, Maybe Ill Open Up A ‘Rant At Taco’ Thread.

ROFLMAO!!!!!!1111111one.

[Reed]

Oh And BTW If You Believe Everything Gohan Says Youre More Of An Idiot Than I Thought.

[Dirty_Taco]

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[Fyre]

We Harass You Because Youre An Arrogant C*nt And We Know It F*cks You Off.  We Killed You Constantly, As Did Other People, Only To Receive A LMFAO or ROFL!!!!! So We Began To Do The Same, Act Like A C*nt, Get Treated Like One. Don’t Think Were Singling You Out Though, We Gave Fyre And BoB The Same Treatment.

I don't recall ever even speaking to you during the time I was in eR33t. So please clarify what you meant by that exactly. As for DirtyTaco being a girl thingy, I don't understand how you come to that conclusion at all. If DirtyTaco was, in fact, a "girl thingy" to you, you must've done something to provoke it. Dt isn't a jerk to people, which leads me to believe that you brought it upon yourself. Not all of dt's map are FANTASTIC, but they are all well thought-out with a high level of teamplay intended to be used. Telling him his map is garbage when he's there is just disrespectful. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[Playah]

-well something about crimethink: You have made this map, DT. You know all the hints of the map, the strategic points and paths and the trick jumps. You dont even have to practice those maps with your clan. You just could tell them the best strategic paths (with trickjumps, etc.) for each player/position and thats it. Other clans would have to study those maps very long time and even after this i dont think they could figure out ALL those strategics paths and "camp-points" like you do.

-About the written above: This COULD be also the matter at one or more of the other maps of the pbcup-maplist since "most of them are by eR33t members" (and it DOESNT MATTER if you´ve made them before your time with eR33t because wether or not you still can help them out on your maps and you would, i hope )

-DIRECT map Criticism: There shouldnt be brainstorm on the maplist because the "biggest maps" dont Always have the greatest game-play. I think its too big. There better should be a "Middle"-sized map. (middle sized like ub_rooftop per example; havent tested ub_abbey yet but i think its worth a look at it although its a beta-version)

PS: NOT meant as a flame. Just my opinion so far.

[DrRickDaglessMD]

Aside from this little war that seems to have sprung up, Playah, i agree ENTIRELY with what you just said. Thats it entirely.

DT, again i'll state, I personally have never said anything like that to you or harrassed you on a server, so leave that out please. And dont say DarkP either, as Im certain Wonton or Liz hasn't said anything either. Yeah you have played more matches than us, but It's not likely that we'll ever want to match you because why give you the pleasure? If you beat us on the field that wouldn't make your maplist any better, or you win any arguments because we never said we were better, so why fuel your ego?
Oh and on Gohan, if you even knew what that implied about you, there's no way you would have said that as if it was something to brag about. One conversation with Ian (Gohan) went something like this: 'Ian, wtf why did you tell er33t and everyone we hack?' 'because you called me G.ay' 'but we don't hack, and you even said yourself you ARE ACTUALLY G.ay' 'yeah but you were making fun of me'. You say some of your assumptions were wrong about my clan, but im pretty sure that should read 'the overwhelming majority' as im pretty sure you have no hard facts to reinforce your 'positive' claim that we've never matched on those maps.

So you insult my literacy skills again this time, despite the fact you seem to be experiencing a complete logical disconnect from what you are saying in that paragraph. You say er33t never/rarely played crimethink? but they've go the map maker in their clan, how is that possibly fair. You even said yourself you showed digi the tricks and jumps. How is that fair on any other competing team? you going to show them as well? As you say, almost no-one has the experience of you (me apparently having 'less than a quarter') so why not just lock the thread, finalise the maplist, tell everyone to cope with it, like always happens.

P!nk, i think you ought to READ DT's essay before you post again. 'You then took this offensively and defended your clan, while making every effort to say a rude comment or two. Whereas at least DT remains  somewhat neutral, that much is in his favor.'. wow. I get accused of that, with tacos post right infront of you. Or is it because Taco is Taco, and Im a european newb? I do have to wonder.

About suggestions to the maplist, Me and Reed have been sifting though as many maps as possible and I'm going to have to concede that a LOT of maps aren't suitable to strategic 4 vs 4 play like you want. I'd like to test cfire more because I think it has potential, but the map I think (probably contraversially) should feature is Shazam22. It generally features a fair bit of spray across the bridge, but so does Midnight. I don't think its regularly-played-on-pubs status should count against it either. Given the timeframe of the matches, I think it would provide a fair bit of drama and fun to the match, Plus a well practised clan would be able to defeat the dodgy tactics that some of the maps features suggest (mainly camping ones). You've already dismissed this map in your first post, but I think you've missed the point that it goes for Midnight just as much, yet that makes it in. I've already said that I'd like to see ub_rooftop feature, also.

*edit* I've since looked at ub_abbey (recommended by Playah) and think it would be perfect for the maplist. It has a few problems shown by jit in the beta thread, but I honestly think this map has the most promise of any I've seen so far.

And no, the roughly 3 minutes you spent justifying your maps wasn't wasted, the 17 minutes you spent attacking me was.

- Dr Rick Dagless M.D

[Reed]

One useless post from you is enough, please stop now.

[P!nk]

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[Reed]

Pink, I Was Talking About Provoking DT On Pub Servers. Read ALL The Posts Carefully Before You Post Please. If You Read The Posts Dagless Says Nothing Insulting Or Personal About Taco Until Taco Decides To 'Annihilate His Credibility'. He Puts Forward A Fair Argument Which 90% Of Respondants Agree With.

I Suggest You Dont Bother Posting Again Until You Understand The Situation Fully. Dont Pass Judgement When You Havnt Read The Posts Fully. Rick Didnt Come On Here To Provoke Taco, Just To Criticise The Maplist.

Perhaps You Should Think About Editing Your Post.

[P!nk]

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[DrRickDaglessMD]

P!nk you obviously HAVEN't read the thread because it really is quite simple. I gave feedback, DT replies with abuse thinly veiled with justifications for his maps, this escalates. You obviously also can't read the part where I said I had nothing to do with abuse of DT on servers or otherwise (than this thread, which has nothing to do with my opinions of him in general, just of his maps and this map list). The only one perpetuating this flaming now is you, as I had made some suggestions in my post above, and you - against your own advice - just post crap like that, with no contribution to discussion on making a better maplist. gj. All I can see is DT is goign to be naturally protective of his own creations and decisions and reacted predictably, you are about as objective in your opinions as DT himself.

'What I've been trying to draw to your attention is that no matter how much you argue, it's not going to have an effect, neither will drawing your clan members into it.'

That makes me laugh, because it just shows how little you comprehend what was written. DT brought up DarkP, Reed and Sanchez. DT started the personal stuff with 'I would like to start by annihiliating RickDaglesses credibility'.

Oh and insulting Reed's typing...classy.

You also seem to miss the point about DT being able to tutor his friends on the map. That just isn't fair. Its like doing an exam at university, and the author of the exam paper letting his favourite students see the questions before the class takes it.

im going to make this really simple for you to read, P!nk, because you seem to be unable to glean any meaning from any posts so far: I, Dr Rick Dagless M.D, have NO personal vendetta against Dirty Taco. Reed and Sanchez ARE NOT me. Nor are they the whole of [-DarkP-]. They are entitled to their opinions and comments as much as anyone and it has nothing to do with me, however much i might agree with them at times. 

- Dr Rick Dagless M.D

P.S You're most recent post makes a good point, put it to a Poll or something, because this is getting beyond a joke in terms of being off-topic. I go back and read my first post and just smile at how amazingly poorly some people take critisism that isnt even that bad.