Author Topic: spcup_kingdom beta 3  (Read 23945 times)

JMR

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spcup_kingdom beta 3
« on: December 30, 2013, 04:47:46 PM »
Hello, I am proud to announce the release of the first map in the new spcup_ series - kingdom!

Description:
Behind all other kingdoms, by far, paintball kingdom packs the most action any villager has ever seen. With our old historic castle walls, deep caves, lovely countryside and our historic battered cannons (Which by the way work), you'll be visiting this kingdom often.

This map was designed for competitive matches, particularly in competitive tournaments. The map will also be played on some public servers.

This map plays best with 3v3+, but does still pack a punch with 2v2.

Features:

Huge variety of jumps and speeds
Castles
2 routes, wet and dry (or low and high)
Cannons
Fancy non-straight walls and realistic terrain


Current version: Beta 3

Bugs I know need fixing for the next beta:
• Somehow fix 2 lighting glitches that only happen on one side.




Information:

• 2 Flags (5pts each)
• Cap on first flag (the lowest one)
• Spawn with: loaded co2, chrome barrel and a carbine.
• Loc files coming soon!


Screenshots:






Downloads:

• Current beta download: http://sdrv.ms/1elKki4
• Txt current: http://sdrv.ms/19iz1aO
• Mapshot [Save as:spcup_kingdom_b3.jpg and put in beta folder of pics/mapshots: http://sdrv.ms/1elMr5o

NOTE: you need sk89q`s tree models and ctp1 textures on your server. If you don't have ctp1 textures: ftp://otb-server.de/pub/CTP%20-%20Community%20Texture%20and%20Model%20Pack/CTP1-Prerelease.zip


Feedback welcome! :)
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 12:41:31 PM by JordanMRichards »

MaTzeMR

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Re: sPcup_Kingdom B1
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2013, 04:52:57 PM »
looks great man. gj

MyeRs

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Re: sPcup_Kingdom B1
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2013, 06:19:35 PM »
From purely the last screenshot: Looks like a bottleneck - could seem different in game. But essentially 4 narrow paths that open to a large mid -  so unless im mistaken it should be SUPER easy to sit somewhere in each path and spray out. Which wont lead to ideal gameplay.

The aesthetics look good. But it seems like (from the screenshots) that you have a fairly detailed bases - a sort of detailed mid - but the paths connecting the 2 just kinda look plain, narrow, and simple to me. I feel like connecting bases to mid could be done better?

THAT BEING SAID - THIS IS ALL FROM VIEWING SCREENSHOTS, WILL TRY IT IN GAME AFTER IM DONE WATCHING PHANTLORD KILL THE EVERY VIDEO GAME SERVER IN THE WORLD.

prozajik

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Re: sPcup_Kingdom B1
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2013, 06:32:25 PM »
Looks good on screenshots, but is it the right mapfile? When i download it and try to play in game i see just non-lighted map whole map dark. It happened to me with some other map aswell, i am starting to get suspicious if there could be sth wrong with my pb.

LOLOL What the hell is going on with pphantoml0rd, even cops are there now rofl

LaZeRs

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Re: sPcup_Kingdom B1
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2013, 06:41:05 PM »
Why is the map all dark when after I downloaded it and tested it on my server?

It didn't happen to me in any other map, and I tried reconnecting too.

JMR

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Re: sPcup_Kingdom B1
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2013, 06:41:36 PM »
Yeah, sorry, completely wrong map file :-( will fix tomorrow

For now you can lease a spec server and change the map to spcup kingdom b1
paintball.jordanmrichards.com
*Sent from my phone

prozajik

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Re: sPcup_Kingdom B1
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2013, 06:44:34 PM »
Great it isnt just me! ^^
Anyway, will download it from spec server and give you feedback in edit.

EDIT1:
You missed M in your link ;)

EDIT2:
http://paintball.jordanmrichards.com/servers.html
link for those who wonder
command: "newmap beta/spcup_kingdom_b1"

spec 1 pw:test
login:test

you can just join to download it, if nobody lease it again



EDIT3:
So i played through the map and its pretty confusing at first glance, but after i partly understood how the map works, i think its pretty good. I cant really predict how it will play tho, its too complex.

Looks: really nice, i love the way the map looks. But there some part of terrain which look unnatural tho, i might take pictures of them later. And i didnt get textures along with your mapfile from spec servers :p

Base: Like the way higher flag is handled, if you fall from there, its harder to protect it > makes for nice tactics while grabbing. Also higher flag is much more valuable to defend because High flag is easier to get away with (not taking in account speed to 2nd which is possible and makes going High way even more risky).

Mid: Kinda too complex i feel, i think you should do something with midlow, make it a little higher so you dont fall that deep if you fail jump.

Tactics: Higher is tons faster than low (ok leme rephrase that, getting away with high flag is like 10x easier than with low flag). What that means, is all plays/rushes will be about this way and if your mates lose at that way battle, you are kinda screwed if you in the other way, you have to rush the same way, because getting to the other side from the other way is more difficult.

leme make clear something before i continue, this is getting confusing:
High way = way to low flag and cap, DRY, leads to Walls
Low way = way closer to high flag, WET, leads to Bridge(mid bridge)
I hope i am right on this, well i will just continue assuming i am.

You can rush the low way and you even made some kind of speedjump there, which is nice, it makes rushing/getting away more interesting. The problem is, the High way has nothing like this, its pretty hard to actually rush over mid from there (you would need to do 2 "hard" double jumps in a row to actually make that speed) and its not even rewarding enough. I feel like these ways should have been swapped, if you made these 2 doublejumps you would get to the higher flag (which is easier to get away with as i stated before). And lastly, i dont like that there are some kind of "buildings/castles", it makes it easy for campers etc. Take for example pforest, there is like only one place where you can hide and camp, which everybody checks anyway (well i do, right Clipz? :P). I guess you wanted to give the low path some disadvantage so you put there place, which can be held by campers? Probably, would make sense, while its good thinking, dont really like how it worked out.

Well, thats all for my "first look" review of your map :p



To sum up:
Map looks really nice i would say its your best map in terms of looks, just to remove some weird looking grasses :p
Looks == 9-10/10

I think you still need to work on the flow of the map. There are some possible issues i see with it, on the other hand you threw in some sweet speeds
Flow == 7/10
EDIT:Changed flow rating, i feel like 6 is too low, the map flows decent compared to your other maps.

As for how the map will actually play, i think it could work even now, but as i said i fear that the low path is much better than the high path (if i dont mind the camp possibility). But i like the flag positioning and overaly this map looks like its heading the right direction ;).
Gameplay == 6-7/10 ?? yet to be tested




EDIT4:
Just realised something, if someone gets High flag and tries to run away through the Low way, your only chance is to cut him of, because you cant catch to him if you try to switch paths and you cant jump to the other high with some speed > if someone gets High flag its basically cap on you. This is where i see the biggest issue.

EDIT5:
Ok, if you make correctly both DJs, high way is actually faster, but i think its still pretty harsh, because you will be lining and trying to do these DJs at the same time, they are way too hard imo. By 2 DJs i mean from the High way wall >DJ> bridge >DJ> other High way wall

EDIT6:
Low way > High way, High way is more riskier to go to, without any possible reward other than positional/surprise advantage.

Suggestions how to fix Low vs. High:
1)Make 1st flag worth more points. Not sure about that one
2)Make DJ from High way wall to the bridge easier
3)Add some midlow speed connecting both High ways
4)Add ramp to High ways, which shoots you to the bridge without having to DJ it.

EDIT7:
When you enter the cave from wet (Low way) the first lantern on the left is weird. Too lazy to make sshot, if you dont find it, i will make one.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2013, 05:45:22 AM by prozajik »

Aveiro

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Re: sPcup_Kingdom B1
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2013, 07:11:21 PM »
This map is currently best of all your maps. I like the visual look but it's easy campable. We already played it vs u three times and it was very fast and cool map with great jumps almost everywhere.

But after all my feedbacks to you i still dont like few things on this map.

- I would remove automag on dry side and maybe you could change it for autococker/carbine. Also I dont like spyders on this map.
- You could maybe add few more planks on this jump, because from gameplay I think it was a bit hard to do this jump well.

- Always when i tried to jump from low to bridge, this piece of wall blocked me, maybe do it a bit smaller. Also planks are too steep.

- I never used this ledge in match, maybe do it somehow useful for match. Like add some dj to the top of rock.

- And I still dont believe that this is normal... But it's just my opinion


EDIT1: You should move 2nd flag closer to the base maybe into the corner with boxes, so it's easier to defend.

EDIT2: This map needs one more way to prevend campers.

EDIT3: I was thinking about this way, MyeRs also told me his opinion about this side/bd and I think this is the best place for it.


Anyway I like this map, we will test it in our matches and I hope next betas will be much more better.

PS: I feel like Chef-Killer :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 2013, 05:56:28 AM by Aveiro »

MyeRs

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Re: sPcup_Kingdom B1
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2013, 07:44:59 PM »
aveiro leave the server so i can test it u nigguh

Aveiro

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Re: sPcup_Kingdom B1
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2013, 07:47:32 PM »

MyeRs

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Re: sPcup_Kingdom B1
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2013, 07:50:07 PM »
his post was too long, didnt read oops

prozajik

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Re: sPcup_Kingdom B1
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2013, 07:58:23 PM »
his post was too long, didnt read oops
Threw in there some formatting, altho i doubt that login and pw will last much longer ^^

MyeRs

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Re: sPcup_Kingdom B1
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2013, 08:02:29 PM »
*Providing as much feedback as possible as i run arounnd it with aveiro and atmays as you want it to be part of a series, so want best possible results*

FIRST IMPRESSION FROM PLAYING: Annoying that everything is so circular. Straighting along it is kinda annoying cause it's like 1 fluid motion without any room for creativity in the jumps etc...

2) reminnds me of solitude (or w/e its called) - map by jeejee and DT. Detailed base and all that, then a ok mid. But, all the detailed base / church etc.. of that map got no use. Everything was done mid. Cause you all the action would happen mid. Here is the same. Paths are all fast for the average player to do, so everyone will get mid and line. It's really hard to grab on an organized team. So, that base - which has a fair amount of detail - will see 0 gameplay. Also, team that grabs first will sit mid forcing trades or revive caps purely by sitting mid. So, being slightly slower or behind after grabbing can put you in a terrible spot. Cause the paths are narrow after mid, you can have your own team putting out lines and never get by it.

3) not a fan of flg2 spot - seems kinda random and out of the way. TBH Both flag points seems random - usually flag1 is always in an open central spot - then flag 2 a bit more hidden etc.. They both just seemed place to create a 2 flag map rather than in a 'good' spot. It feels like you tried to avoid camping in the base - but the paths into base from mid will be completely camped.

4) that ramp from the SS (that i mentioned before) is REALLY awkward.

5) When you get a lot of speed at points you hit your head and lose it. Making it so you have to go slower to do the jumps. Kinda annoying.

ATMAYS CRITICISM:

You get from 1 side so fast, theres no balance. If you look at pforest you can get your team involved, this does not really require teamwork. It seems very random.

The terrain is cool but the gameplay isn't.

The map is more difficult then renoir/pforest, but the gameplay isnt near it. Adding so many paths etc.. doesnt increase gameplay.

"If I can get across this map pretty fast then there's a problem, cauase im not a good jumper"
-------------------

EDIT: Spyders don't get used in most good maps - most players hate spyders in the current game - its honestly just simpler to use carbines/cockers at all times cause it's 1 less thing for people to complain about.

I am giving more criticism to get it played. It looks nice, it is your best map - but it has a lot more to go before it could be good. It's got some good ideas, but it feels like it lacks flow to play - and it doesn't give any advantage to higher skilled players. It's not a map that requires teamwork to outplay etc.. but it is certainly your best map.

capo

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Re: sPcup_Kingdom B1
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2013, 08:27:19 PM »
Doesn't flow well. It doesn't have a high skill cap to the experienced players. Looks nice though.

Should just use maps made by me, obviously.

MyeRs

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Re: sPcup_Kingdom B1
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2013, 08:34:12 PM »
Doesn't flow well. It doesn't have a high skill cap to the experienced players. Looks nice though.

An example of this is that if you look at maps DT has made - there are jumps that "experienced" players still don't make every try. There's a lot of room for failure. And every jump can be started from hundreds of spots. They don't feel forced. To this day, there are new jumps being found in maps like carp/pforest etc.. Pforest was out for like 3-4yrs before people found the midswitch speedjump.

Stuff like that increases the skill cap to make it WORTH learning. A map like this - once you know the routes there's nothing to learn. You can camp the entrances easy - and better players don't get too much benefit.

Mission

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Re: sPcup_Kingdom B1
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2013, 09:10:53 PM »
JMR has already shown me multiple jumps that I would consider at a high skill level, to gain an advantage of people of a lower skill. It's just like the pforest 3-4yrs midswitch speed on a smaller scale, you have to study it until you can say you know everything on the map. For example there are nice jumps to high flag that are a little forced but take skill and can be done in one smooth motion as shown by inte when they played this map. There are jumps to the higher ledge so you can see them through sky brush and through a line when they approach, get on ts3 with him and he might be able to show you more.

MyeRs

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Re: sPcup_Kingdom B1
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2013, 09:14:46 PM »
JMR has already shown me multiple jumps that I would consider at a high skill level, to gain an advantage of people of a lower skill. It's just like the pforest 3-4yrs midswitch speed on a smaller scale, you have to study it until you can say you know everything on the map. For example there are nice jumps to high flag that are a little forced but take skill and can be done in one smooth motion as shown by inte when they played this map. There are jumps to the higher ledge so you can see them through sky brush and through a line when they approach, get on ts3 with him and he might be able to show you more.

I was in the game with aveiro, whos part of iNte, and we were going through it together. I know there's jumps, we played on it as well as jumping around and went over the map for a good hour. I stand by every flaw that I noted.

BASEBALLDUDE

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Re: sPcup_Kingdom B1
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2013, 10:18:31 PM »
This map is nice! Way to go! I only played alone a little but my only problem is the map feels a little compact in some areas.

A few things.

1. Black fern?

2. I'm not a fan of this non-HD texture. Either scale it down or use something that has an HR4 component.

3. Some areas, such as this one, look overbright and washed out.

LaZeRs

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Re: sPcup_Kingdom B1
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2013, 11:19:35 PM »
This is my feedback. It may not be the best in the world, but it's what I don't like.



1st Screenshot: Found a lighting bug on the little grass thing which I'm next to, I think. I'm no expert on this type of thing. Oh yeah, it's only there in one base.

2nd Screenshot: That little hill (which I am standing on in the picture) makes me overjump all my jumps. Instead of going onto your two-planked ramp into that window thing, I over-jump the two-planked ramp.

3rd Screenshot: This little area is pointless. It will be used for camping, and it's only really useful when going down the hole at the top. Maybe you could put a hallway or something to connect that area to something.

Rick

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Re: sPcup_Kingdom B1
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2013, 12:36:35 AM »
This is my favourite jump so far. (Third attempt in demo).

http://banterous.co.uk/demo/1017

NYE right now, so I'll play it properly tomorrow!