Wiki Discussion Thread

[jitspoe]

I'm starting a fresh thread for this.  Here's what we have right now:

http://digitalpaint.planetquake.gamespy.com/testwiki1/pb2wiki.php

http://digitalpaint.planetquake.gamespy.com/wiki/

While I like the idea of having a wiki tailored to our needs from the ground up, I don't really have the time to get it up to snuff with software packages that are already available.  Things like image uploads and logins still need to be implemented.  I'm not sure if it would be more work to get these types of features implemented or to try to adapt other wiki software to the theme of the site and possibly the global login system.

I've seen a handful of wiki's, but after looking around, it seems there are quite a few: http://www.wikimatrix.org/

The ones I'm familiar with:

TWiki - We use this at work.  It's PERL based.  Works well for what we do, but depends on "WikiWords" for automatic linking.  That is, words with upper, lower, upper case letters.  Almost all of the projects we have use this format (examples: FindInFiles, CopyIt, IndexMerger, etc.), so it pans out well.  It seems a bit on the sluggish side, and doesn't look like it would theme well.  I'd also prefer something PHP based as that tends to be the most compatible.

PhpWiki - I've seen it used for some quake wiki's.  Didn't like it.  Seems really privative and bleh.

DokuWiki - Tried this on the planetquake servers and it was unbearably slow.  It also didn't support includes, which I think will be critical for things like cvar lists so we can have an article for each cvar, but be able to include the description part of it on various other articles.

MediaWiki - Just about everybody has seen this one.  It's used for Wikipedia.  I'm sure it will continue to be maintained and supported for some time, which is a plus.  It seems every site using it has the same layout, which leads me to believe it's difficult to theme.  I could be wrong.  I haven't done much with it, so I'm not sure if it has things like includes, but I'm sure it's pretty robust and feature-complete considering the massive sites it supports.

In addition to what we do for the wiki software, we need to plan out a good way to structure the wiki before people go dumping lots of data on it.  Most wiki software supports categories, so we should take full advantage of that to help organize things.

Some ideas I have for categories:

- console
-- commands
-- cvars

- gameplay
-- game modes
--- ctf, dm, elim, etc.
-- weapons
-- guides
-- maps

- mapping
-- tutorials
-- level editors
-- entities

- development
-- sounds
-- textures
-- (maybe mapping should be a sub-category here)
-- models
-- menus
--- widgets

- servers
-- guides

- community
-- clans
-- players

Hopefully the software allows things to be reused in different categories.  For example, in the server section, it would be useful to have a list of server commands that would contain some of the same things as in the console/commands section.

[KiLo]

- servers
-- guides

^^^Possibly commands too.

Edit: How come the wiki isn't on dplogin.com?

[jitspoe]

* jitspoe points to his last paragraph.

[KnacK]

Also should add changelog/build history

Also history of the mod.

[jitspoe]

Another thing I neglected to mention: in the unlikely event that Digital Paint creates another game, the wiki would need to be broken up into game categories, so pretty much everything would need to go under the "Paintball2" category.

Changelog and history would be specific articles, not categories.

[lekky]

Well we use confluence at work and thats pretty smart. Not open source though.

I think the best bet would be to use a pre-made wiki and modify it as much as you can to fit into your theme. Who is going to transfer all the information from the current one!! Can't help with the choice of wiki until i look around unfortunately.

(ps. <3 atlassian)

[y00tz]

Could we include an "About" section? With stuff like developer (you) profile(s), and 'technology' which could boast the coolest and latest parts of the engine (reflective water and ragdoll models come to mind).

And I know we had a discussion about wanting to keep the source out of bad hands (hackers) but maybe once the client-check stuff is more secure, you could add a section about the source, with links, explanations, how to build etc.?

I'm just tossing ideas out here

y00tz

[Zorchenhimer]

you could add a section about the source, with links, explanations, how to build etc.?

That could help me out. I haven't really tried hard at all, but I can't get it to compile.

[y00tz]

you could add a section about the source, with links, explanations, how to build etc.?

That could help me out. I haven't really tried hard at all, but I can't get it to compile.

Same.

[Cobo]

Its fairly easy to compile with Visual Studio 2005 Express edition, it's what I use to compile.
If you guys need help compiling it, just PM me. Actually, I once started making a how to compile guide (not on the wiki). But never finished it because I didnt tought I would release it because of the same reason y00tz mentioned.

Heh, its kind of ironic that the person that tought me how to compile the source was a hacker... zaltekk. But that was before we all knew he was one

[y00tz]

Ahhhh Cobo, where were you when I posted this: http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=5644.0. 
I tried for a long time to get it to compile with VS 2005 Express!

[Cobo]

Actually, I did read that thread some time ago, but it was kind of late and I didnt want to revive an old thread

[jitspoe]

Let's try to focus the discussion on the software package and organization for now.  We'll worry about content once everything is set up and organized.

How does this layout look?

- about Paintball2
-- developers
-- features
-- game modes
--- ctf, dm, elim, etc.
-- weapons
-- maps

- support
-- FAQ
-- troubleshooting

- console
-- commands
-- cvars

- servers
-- guides
-- (console command sub-section if possible)

- community
-- clans
-- players

- development
-- sounds
-- textures
-- maps
--- tutorials
--- level editors
--- entities
-- models
-- menus
--- widgets
-- code

[y00tz]

Ahhhh a lot better

Let's try to focus the discussion on the software package and organization for now.  We'll worry about content once everything is set up and organized.

This question is organization related: Is there enough Torunament/PBCup stuff to add a 'tournaments' or
'match' section under Community?

Also, when you get a chance Jitspoe, tell *us* what you need *us* to do so we can start working.

Cheers,
y00tz

[bitmate]

- about Paintball2
-- developers

Possible content for that would be the origin of the developer's names...

* bitmate hints at jitspoe

[jitspoe]

Also, when you get a chance Jitspoe, tell *us* what you need *us* to do so we can start working.

I'd suggest playing around with different wiki's, seeing what you like and don't like.  I'm thinking MediaWiki is probably what we'd end up using, but if there's something better out there, we can use that.  You might also see how easy it is to theme some of these so we could get it to fit in with the design of the rest of the site.

[KnacK]

--irc under -community

[jitspoe]

I tinkered a bit on a site that had MediaWiki, and I think I like it.  It has the capability to have articles listed under multiple categories, so it would be ideal for things like console commands where there are multiple overlapping categories.  I say we go with that.  It just needs to be themed to fit in with the rest of the site.

[y00tz]

I can't find source for it, link?

[jitspoe]

http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Download