Digital Paint Discussion Board
Paintball 2: The Game => Help and Support => Topic started by: Da_Assassin on December 03, 2007, 01:07:20 AM
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Some of you may see me on pubs often as either da assassin or paint assassin. I'm always try'in to improve my aim rather than missing easy open shots at times on opponents. The only advise I have been given is to PGP bots or PGP in general. I've been play'in since June. My aim isn't the worst, I get some ns from time to time; but I'm very inconsistent.
How much do you veteran and skilled players of DP take ping in account when aiming? Or is it just more of a reflex unconscious thing? I seen to have good reflex shots.
How does fov affect your aim? I'm currently using fov 120.
Is there any general advise you can give me (especially those that see me often)?
Thanks for any responses?
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I use a 120 fov but fov doesn't really have a whole lot to do with it. A lot of people say to PGP, but honestly I don't think pgp'ing helps your aim very much. I would just use the guns you would use if you were in a match. If you're in a pub then just rush as much as you can, because then you will be forced to aim at people rather than just sitting in one spot and shooting lines which requires no aim.
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I suggest always move to different areas so you can practice and speed up your aim timing in different situations... Around corners, large open areas, behind you... fov helps me aim quicker in the general area, then its just practicing on pubs and such...
(if you find it hard to practice on pubs because of good players always killing you, try going to a lesser pub with newbies and nonames just until you get a feel for your aiming, then you can work your way up to the faster players)
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Lower sensitivity makes for better aiming although you can not turn as quickly.
You also could try using crosshair 0 (no crosshair) so you can get used to aiming without it then when you do have the crosshair it will be easier.
KiLo's Current Settings (and I am halfway decent [sometimes ;D]):
FOV 120
Sensitivity 4
crosshair 1
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FOV 118
Sensitivity 6
crosshair 6
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the sensitivity is different from mouse to mouse. if u have sensitivity 20 and u use another mouse it can feel like 8
im using crosshair 6 and fov 125. the only advice i can give u is: playing playing playing
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yeah asthor. crosshair 6 ftw!
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Crosshair, FOV, and sensitivity are entirely personal preference. These things will not magically fix your aim. Try to quickly find something that you like and feel comfortable with, then get to work on your aim. The left/center/right handedness option does make a difference though, I already wrote about it once, so I'll just quote it in this thread.
I have made a little diagram to try to explain what the different hand positions do. The black X represents your crosshair, the circles represent the flight path of of the 'perfect' paintball leaving your marker(in other words an autococker with steel barrel). You'll notice that depending on the position of the gun in your hand, it starts from a left, centre, or right offset as it travels to the target. This provides a slight advantage in very minimal circumstances.
(http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1168.0;attach=189;image)
As much as people cry about it on the pubs, this entire game revolves around "spray", "lining", and prediction shots. Take a few maps and start looking at some of the angles on the choke points. Try to understand how your player's visibility comes into play from the perspective of your opponent. Always try to minimize your visibility, or identify key areas in a map where you'll be at the advantage in terms of seeing your opponents versus them seeing you. This isn't really specific to aim, but it's integral in you staying alive.
Depth perception and range is the main area where you'll probably spend most of your time starting off. There aren't many games like PB2 where these play such an important factor in every shot that you fire. Aiming with the correct depth perception and taking in account the range for the weapon/barrel is absolutely essential. You really need to put a lot of time in on carbines, automags and autocockers just to be able to compete in matches. Try to get a feeling of the firing rates of each gun, as well as it's shooting range and the impact that each barrel has on direction of the ball. A good practice is to start your own server up in the menu (with match-ish settings), load up a map, and type `debug1 1` in the console so that you can join whichever team and jump around without bots getting in the way. Start standing or running up to areas that you've already identified as being advantageous and getting a feel of where you need to aim to hit where your opponents are known to hang out. Your focus should be on getting the correct range to the same few openings or chokepoints from multiple locations in the map. If you're in a clan, you could practice with a teammate to spot where your shots are landing, or even have them stand/crouch at these certain areas just to get an actual idea of where to shoot. The teammate will also give you an idea of how visible your opponents will be, and will assist in understanding the depth perception of players, as opposed to fixed objects in a map.
At this point, you really need to start rushing into or through these positions and seeing how your shots land as you're in motion. Your movement has a slight influence on the speed of the paintball, so if you're moving very fast to your left, you can expect your ball to land to the left of where you were aiming, so you need to begin understanding how to properly counter-aim your shots so that they will hit what you're intending. The same thing applies if you're getting really high vertical speeds (up/down) like on a map like shazam33. You can't stand still in the open in this game, or you'll die. Running at someone straight on makes you an easy target as well, so you have to work a little left-right movement into your strafe jumps.
Once you've got the range of the guns down, you should already start seeing some improvements in your aim versus players who are moving. To hit moving players well, you really have to understand where they're going. It helps to be really comfortable in both range and depth perception, because you need to identify how far away the opponent is, and how far away they are going so that you can make a shot that will hit them as they pass or arrive to their destination. It's worth knowing that players who are taking huge jumps have very little control in their direction. Once someone has pushed off the ground, the arc of their jump will remain pretty consistent. If you're really good, you'll be able to shoot into people's jump paths, if they're jumping straight at you then it's even easier.
Try to see if anyone will send you some demos of them playing. Watch them and try to pick up a few things, whether it be: movement, aim, angles, game awareness, etc.; try to find at least one thing in that demo that they do better than you and improve on it. I've always felt this is the best way to learn anything.
-XB
While DT writes a thesis, I waste time writing stupidly-long DP posts to newbies who are probably too bothered to even read any of this. Hope someone finds some value in all of this...
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On pubs with good players I usually have somewhere near a 1:1 kill death ratio give or take. Thanks Xtreme Bain for the thorough response. (Especially the couter-aiming) I rush frequently on pubs. I usually surprise an opponent, and 50/50 I miss the shot an get pwned. I just see the better players do the same thing and rarely miss. I also find that I'm struggling to figure out how far to lead opponents based on their speed.
Xtremebain, are you saying that the paintballs travel below the crosshair at center, (I player with center hand) because I thought it was a little high)
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(if you find it hard to practice on pubs because of good players always killing you, try going to a lesser pub with newbies and nonames just until you get a feel for your aiming, then you can work your way up to the faster players)
Actually I think it's best to play as good of players as possible.
Don't worry XB, I found deep value in what you wrote.
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I'm also curious how often the veteran players use the hand switching script. Does an optical mouse work more efficiently? I still use the old fashioned mouse with the ball (don't know the proper name for them). I value XtremeBain's post. I hope u don't think I'm a total noob. I'm not getting pwned by newbies and nonames. I'm just tryi'in to get past a halt in improvement.
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Ball-mice are generally harder to use and less accurate than optical/laser mice.
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Get off that old "mechnical mouse" and get an optical mouse if you can afford it. Even a basic logitech one will be better than that mechanical one. Hand-scripts are only really useful once you've got your aim down. Their advantage is minimal at best, I'd say that 50% of veterans use them. I think it's one of those things that come down to personal preference. I think that your best bet is to learn how to aim with a center hand, and then move to a hand script a little later on once you've got the hang of some of the angles and snap shooting (peeking out from a wall/crate/object just long enough to fire 1-2 shots).
That diagram shows the horizontal plane of travel (like a top/down view). The vertical component of it depends on the gun/barrel's range.
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optical mouse are cheap now... i think the microsoft optical mouse is under $30... i wouldn't go back to that ball mouse... i haven't tried the new laser mouse so, i can't say it's better.
you just need to practice, my friend ;) know where your opponent is going ;) and i believe there's a little physics involved with the paintball projection.
i dont know what my fov or sensitive setting is so, i go with the "physics" aspect...
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Actually I think it's best to play as good of players as possible.
To a point, for newbies, getting killed before even turning around will have a massive detrimental effect.
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To a point, for newbies, getting killed before even turning around will have a massive detrimental effect.
thats what I meant too, if he dies before getting to shoot and aim then its pointless, but he says he's usually 50:50 with players so its good to play with the better players, it'll get your speed of aiming up...
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I've found one thing that sometimes helps me personally is to take each shot, even if I'm using a fast gun, rather than relying on a stream of paint to magically hit my opponent. In other words, don't run around with the mouse button down. Aim, then fire. One shot per click.
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don't run around with the mouse button down. Aim, then fire. One shot per click.
Or better yet, aim for something in the middle.
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i find that taking my speed into account, in addition to my opponent's speed, is very important. if you're moving north while your opponent is moving south you're going to be leading him a different amount (at least on the first couple of shots if you use only center hand like i do) than if you were both moving south -- i used north/south because i started confusing myself when i was using phrases like "my left" and "his left."
whenever i feel like i need to practice aiming i always load up a couple of decent sized maps and pick a tree or point on a wall and just move and jump around and watch the stream of my paint as i move while i aim in the general direction of my target spot. if you focus on how the stream of paint changes instead of just staring at the crosshair it's a good way to get a feel for how your movement (and sudden changes to it) will affect your accuracy. i also like to play 3v1 against bots on oddjob with debug1 turned on to get the feel of how my speed in one direction relates to the speed of someone moving in the other direction and to what extent i need to lead them. the only downfall of playing against bots is if you're a euro playing on a US server or visa versa because your ping on your own server will not be indicative of what it feels like to play online.
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I've noticed on another computer (a much newer one than my 15in Dell notebook) that a higher resolution a much larger screen, and optical mouse helped significantly.
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Lekky...
Da_Assassin isn't some newb who is playing his first day. He is still pretty new, but not to the extent where he is getting shot without even seeing his opponent. Obviously someone playing for their first day shouldn't go up against top players, but once you get to a certain range of skill level I believe the harder the opponent the more you will learn and the better you will get.
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All these tips seem like very good advice, but I think they reveal the deeper issue. In a game like this it all boils down to the moment, or "the shot". The instant where everything has to go right. It can be pretty entacing to go looking at your setup for the solution, but for all its positives, the amount of options and variability is probably the biggest hurdle in the game. Every time you "tweak" the config, your fundamentally changing your game and all you've gotten used to. I'm not trying to say you shouldnt tweak it, but dont get focused on your config and use it as the crutch.
I've always thought you had a pretty natural shot Assasin, so I was a little shocked when I saw this post. Find the settings that work well and that you can accept. Then just focus on gettin into the game, and that moment.
P.S. - Its the same gig as music. The DP battle that might last seconds is the same "moment" that's lasting minutes in a piece of music. Just figure out how to bring that concentration into DP. GL
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I've just realized that I have been using every weapon either as a carbine (my favorite), autococker, or pgp. How does the paintball travel work with each gun? I was holding a spyder se or w/e and didn't realize how high to aim on a long range shot. I know the arc is different for each gun. I just want a quick comparison before I start working them out individually.
Mewa, lol I have a natural shot. I couldn't even strafe jump until I played this game and warsaw. I can be decent at times especially when I have a carbine.
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For me i always try to predict where there about to go and pre fire. lol haha
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In law enforcement and the military we aim at what people call center mass. That way if the ball drops or rises then you still will hit. :P Actually H@ze helped me when I first started by giving me the advice to adjust my fov and sensitivity slowly to find a happy medium that improved my over-all performance. This helped me with my aim, jumping and over all game play. With Bains post I have changed from right hand to center hand. This actually improved my aim a lot but has but me out in the open more when I try to shoot from cover.
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I find that switching hands and creating a sweeping effect never fails. Also, I hardly EVER aim directly at someone.
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I never do that. I'm referring to long distance shots and the difference weapons. I'm good at this with the carbine and autococker but am clueless on other weapons. Does a spyder shoot straighter (with less arc) than a carbine? VM8 or w/e, stingray and etc. Seems like the more guns on a map, the worst my aim.
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This is the only useful information you're going to get.
Find one sensitivity and use it. Then use it for the rest of your DP career. That's the only way you're aim will get better.
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Fov 101 (was 110)
Sensitivty 7,5
Crosshair 1
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This is the only useful information you're going to get.
Find one sensitivity and use it. Then use it for the rest of your DP career. That's the only way you're aim will get better.
i completely agree with this, and i'd add that you need to stick with one fov as well since fov and sensitivity are interrelated
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I never do that. I'm referring to long distance shots and the difference weapons. I'm good at this with the carbine and autococker but am clueless on other weapons. Does a spyder shoot straighter (with less arc) than a carbine? VM8 or w/e, stingray and etc. Seems like the more guns on a map, the worst my aim.
The velocity should help somewhat in knowing which shoots with less arc, overall.
http://digitalpaint.planetquake.gamespy.com/v2/docs/documentation.html
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You start with a 40 round hopper, other hoppers are:
100 round
200 round
300 round<--- wtf
There's a 300 round hopper?
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Used to be. It got unimplemented.
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I think the stick with one sensitivity and fov is great advice. I've been everywhere from 8-35. (I was actually used to 35 at one point). I reset the sensitivity back to 10 (the default I think). I've been play'in a little bit better lately.
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Used to be. It got unimplemented.
Gotcha. Someone should change the documentation page then.
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pretty sure he was joking
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he wasn't joking, there really did used to be a 300 round hopper. look at pball\pics\hopper300.pcx
http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=43.0
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The velocity should help somewhat in knowing which shoots with less arc, overall.
http://digitalpaint.planetquake.gamespy.com/v2/docs/documentation.html
unfortunately, those velocities (if accurate) do not translate to actual distance. i tested the distances of each gun and compared them to each other; these are my findings from greatest distance to least distance
[greatest]
tracer / carbine (tie for furthest distance)
autococker / pgp (tie)
stingray
spyder (just slightly less distance than stingray)
vm / automag (tie for least distance)
[least]
the test was performed while stationary with real_ball_flight 0, no barrels, centerview prior to each round of testing, hand 2, and default gravity and ball velocity settings. splattime was increased to 20 in order to maintain a proper reference between the two guns, and the position of the splats was compared both on ground impact (full arc distance) and wall impact (striking the wall on the downward path of the ball's arc) to make sure that a gun that shoots further total distance does not do so merely because it has a less steep velocity falloff (they don't).
i don't know if any of these ranks will change with barrels, but i'm doubtful they will. i'm too lazy to check though.
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unfortunately, those velocities (if accurate) do not translate to actual distance. i tested the distances of each gun and compared them to each other; these are my findings from greatest distance to least distance
[greatest]
tracer / carbine (tie for furthest distance)
autococker / pgp (tie)
stingray
spyder (just slightly less distance than stingray)
vm / automag (tie for least distance)
[least]
the test was performed while stationary with real_ball_flight 0, no barrels, centerview prior to each round of testing, hand 2, and default gravity and ball velocity settings. splattime was increased to 20 in order to maintain a proper reference between the two guns, and the position of the splats was compared both on ground impact (full arc distance) and wall impact (striking the wall on the downward path of the ball's arc) to make sure that a gun that shoots further total distance does not do so merely because it has a less steep velocity falloff (they don't).
i don't know if any of these ranks will change with barrels, but i'm doubtful they will. i'm too lazy to check though.
Good to put theory to the test. Thanks!
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It may be the opposite of what some have suggested but I have taken to warming up on Syncmaster's speed pub for a game or two first thing in the day.
You don't want to stay long or you will have a grossly overblown estimate of your abilities. But it does give you a chance to shoot people at every angle and without unnecessary wait time. I have found that my aim has improved by doing so.
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I've noticed that I take more care in my shots when I pgp, paying a lot of attention on how I lead my opponents and making adjustments. I'm starting to use other weapons as if they are the pgp. I fire more in short spurts and I'm starting to lead as if using the pgp. It even helps to not fire at first sight (a split second) of an opponent (as I do with pgp) and make quick calculations on how far I'm leading and where their going. Lately I've been having good scores on arm. 37-13 in 3 minutes but I was beat by warwulf. Another 47- 18 or someth'in like that. However, a map like pb deathmatch I do a little worst.
I still have lapse often when I may be 16-7 on 1 map and start 0-8 on another. Still trying to get some consistency. Perhaps it's a strategic problem. I like to rush.
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I dont think that aiming reflects your score as much as other things in pubs. You're right that its more of a strategy thing. Such as where people are going to be lining, where people will be camping, and where they'll be rushing you from... I think being able to guess where they'll be at before seeing them is a big help for pub scores, more than aim...
edit** and I mean on maps such as rooftop and the shaz's and such... not so much for arm ;)
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I'm having a new problem now. I've gotten a little better recently. But my little cousin (18 months) busted my mouse (mechanical, mouse ball type). I bought a new logitech laser mouse which is extremely sensitive. I tried to set the new mouse to the same sensitivity as the old one. However, I can't hit targets at all with the same efficiency. I'm basically playing like I was 2-3 months ago. Is this a common problem with adjusting? I've used another dell optical and it did not have as drastic effects.
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Control panel > mouse
adjust the sensitivity in there so it is most like your old mouse.
Anyways, laser mice will be a better adjustment as ball type tend to get stuck or jumpy.
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Try setting the sensitivities in-game too.
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It's better to set it through the control panel so your desktop speed is what you want, then tweak your games to what you like when you have the default basically set for the rest of your computer.
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for some reason spooks advice seemed to help better as I was already using the in game settings. I think I might be back on track. My ratios are looking better again. I'm still finding it weird after having use a ball type for years. I just half to get used to pulling off some nice reflex shots again.
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Control panel > mouse
adjust the sensitivity in there so it is most like your old mouse.
Anyways, laser mice will be a better adjustment as ball type tend to get stuck or jumpy.
No, no, no, no, no! The only thing you want to do in there is uncheck "enhance pointer precision", as that adds mouse acceleration, which will screw up your aim. If you adjust the mouse speed settings in control panel, windows will mess with the mouse movement in software (so the movement required to move 2 pixels may only move 1 sometimes, but other times, 2). You're also cheating yourself out of in-game precision. You want the control panel setting to be exactly in the middle so windows doesn't speed up or slow down the cursor movement, then adjust the sensitivity setting in-game.
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So I should go to control panel and put the settings in the middle and then setup in-game. The problem is the mouse is super sensitive which is good but it is crazy fast. I had to put it on its lowest setting in the logitech's software settings. The default logitech setting had an extreme amount of accerelation that I'm not used to. I'm used to making wild lateral movements to make some nice reflex shots.
I'm going to try it. Thanks jitspoe for the info. (How do you actually read all of this)
What's the difference between set point implementation and os implementation. The os makes the mouse faster.
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#1 - Set the mouse to the maximum speed it will do on the hardware.
#2 - Disable all acceleration.
#3 - Adjust the sensitivity down in-game until it performs in a way you're comfortable with. I use a sensitivity of 6 with high-dpi mice. I used to use like 20.
#4 - I think I have OCD combined with an uncanny forum addiction.
#5 - Don't mess with the OS implementation - make sure your speed is exactly in the middle in the control panel and enhance pointer precision is UNCHECKED.
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#4 - I think I have OCD combined with an uncanny forum addiction.
Ha, I actually lol'd when I caught that
Ha, I actually lol'd when I caught that
Ha, I actually lol'd when I caught that
Ha, I actually lol'd when I caught that
Ha, I actually lol'd when I caught that
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maximum speed. I default is 2 of 10 and it's about 2 or 3 times more than my old mouse. The problem isn't in game but outside the game. It would be insane.
Perhaps no acceleration would help. However, already have it on low.
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Ha, I actually lol'd when I caught that
Ha, I actually lol'd when I caught that
Ha, I actually lol'd when I caught that
Ha, I actually lol'd when I caught that
Ha, I actually lol'd when I caught that
Sorry. Didn't realize it was contagious.
Da_Assassin: You'll get used to it out of game after a while. Soon regular mice will feel slow. It's nice to be able to put the cursor anywhere on the screen only by moving the mouse an inch or two. :)
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Ok... I guess I'll try it.
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Jits the problem is, when I set the mouse (through logitech software at 50% and windows at 50%) my in game mouse setting has to be at 0.4. If I max this mouse it would be 0.09 or someth'in. At 3.0 it look like the impulse thing. ::)
My old mouse was 10.0. My sister's dell mouse was 6.0. This new mouse was 3.2 at default and 10% speed and low acceleration.
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You must jerk your mouse around a lot or you don't have acceleration disabled properly. I don't move mine more than an inch or two. If it needs to be .4, then set it to .4.