Digital Paint Discussion Board
Development => Mapping => Map Graveyard => Topic started by: Dirty_Taco on March 15, 2009, 09:04:00 PM
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apparently there's a brush near the hump that people hit when trying to do a speed jump, i don't know where it is but i think rick or ride do.
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Hi. :)
Up on high, theres boxes where you can get stuck in.(I've told you atleast 3 times about it)
I don't really see the point of the mid-low cockers, by the time you get up there, someone is shooting at you.
This is what skitzo means i think...demo attached :)
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So apparently there's some interest in using zpar11 for the Sunday showdown which may incentivize me to finish it. The reason I never finished it was because I was too lazy to fix the textures. This map has been pubbed on a decent amount and has been matched on quite a bit so I feel like it has been thoroughly beta tested. Outside of fixing textures, what other suggestions do people have on it? Suggestions from people that have matched on it will be taken the most seriously as that is ultimately what it is meant for.
Maybe dl link?
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Maybe dl link?
http://jjs.ath.cx/maps/zpar11_beta.bsp (http://jjs.ath.cx/maps/zpar11_beta.bsp)
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I personally don´t like boxes in mid, it´s hard to get some speed there and it´s easy to shoot rushers from line. Maybe move them a bit or just play a bit with terrain.And you should add another way to flag, because what I dislike in playing it in matches was camping.
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I personally don´t like boxes in mid, it´s hard to get some speed there and it´s easy to shoot rushers from line. Maybe move them a bit or just play a bit with terrain.And you should add another way to flag, because what I dislike in playing it in matches was camping.
I like the boxes in low, provides some cover at least if you fall. If you want speed try going high.
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ZOMG GIVE THIS MAP A DESERT THEME AND CALL IT summer2.bsp!!!
I personally don´t like boxes in mid, it´s hard to get some speed there and it´s easy to shoot rushers from line. Maybe move them a bit or just play a bit with terrain.And you should add another way to flag, because what I dislike in playing it in matches was camping.
Boxes are good. Keeps it from being a linefest across mid, also requiring skill and presicion to move quickly across mid is one of the allures of the map for me.
Also, current flag values are awesome, please dont change them.
The only time camping is a problem is when you play 5v5 and all 5 stay in base. I have matched there more than anyone and I have only been beaten by a camp once. Mainly the other team was scared and planted 1 guy on hump and 2 at each flag. Ha ha. Then they called us a joke :\.
I think the best thing you could do is out a hackscan barrier around the flags so at least the cheaters can't grab. Possibly even barriers at base entrances and all tunnels, confining hackers to main.
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Yeah, I heard that there's a glitch in some boxes, fix that. :)
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The only time camping is a problem is when you play 5v5 and all 5 stay in base. I have matched there more than anyone and I have only been beaten by a camp once. Mainly the other team was scared and planted 1 guy on hump and 2 at each flag. Ha ha. Then they called us a joke :\.
Was that when I sat on 2 and just lobbed paintballs at anybody coming in the base? That was fun.
Which brings me to my critique: You can sit on the second flag and peg people as they come in. Your paintballs lob downwards, pick up speed, go far, etc, and their paintballs cannot reach the camper as it's so darn high. It's also pretty much impossible to setup if a person is camping like this because their paintballs can lob so far.
Mid low is pretty much useless too as Henrod's team basically sits high and pegs anybody who comes in. Even if you do some sort of low speed jump flawlessly, they always manage to shoot you in the ass from their high. It's a good tactic, but it sort of eliminates the desired "more than one path mentality".
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Was that when I sat on 2 and just lobbed paintballs at anybody coming in the base? That was fun.
Which brings me to my critique: You can sit on the second flag and peg people as they come in. Your paintballs lob downwards, pick up speed, go far, etc, and their paintballs cannot reach the camper as it's so darn high. It's also pretty much impossible to setup if a person is camping like this because their paintballs can lob so far.
Mid low is pretty much useless too as Henrod's team basically sits high and pegs anybody who comes in. Even if you do some sort of low speed jump flawlessly, they always manage to shoot you in the ass from their high. It's a good tactic, but it sort of eliminates the desired "more than one path mentality".
Way to attack my clan specifically. I didn't say anything about you or your clan and I was purposefully ambiguous to avoid bringing our differences to the forums. I have many screenshots of playing your team on that map. I see you in 1 match there, which brings me to my next point. I believe DT said "Suggestions from people that have matched on it will be taken the most seriously as that is ultimately what it is meant for."
I do have a couple of screenshots showing 40 point plus deficits against UR there in less the 12 minutes. Don't really know how that happens when all we do is "sit high and peg people". I believe the fact that we have 60 of 64 points on one of those screenshots from capping proves conclusively that it is a multipath map. There are several combinations of paths available whether low or high, I truly don't understand how it "eliminates the more than one path mentality".
Back to the map.
I do like that one flag cannot be seen from the other.
I think that the top of the "hay cave" that you enter on mid and exits at the beginning of the opponent's high is a bit cumbersome to crawl out of.
Also the slope coming out of base is so severe, when you jump down from base at the beginning of a round it sends you back instead of facilitating leaving your base. I don't know if you could manage to make the slope a little more subtle without lengthening the distance to base, I'm not familiar with the actual mapping procces.
The map is campable with high numbers. However, if this were a matching map, I would expect regularly matching clans to be more aggressive than sit 5 in base.
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and their paintballs cannot reach the camper as it's so darn high.
Uhm...they can? You can hit 2 from the hump.
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If I remember correctly, there isn't a path to the 2nd flag that doesn't require trick jumping. I really don't understand why you do this on your maps, as it makes the the flag inaccessible to probably well over 90% of the players. You may say, "It's just for matching.", but why put those limits on it? Why not make it so the first time players and other less experienced players can at least GET the flag? If you and other skilled players can already get it, what's the harm in letting other players get it as well?
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u can do it with doublejumps
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This map would never get pubbed on due to its size, its a match map. And if somebody can't do the 'trick' jumps to 2, they probably can't get across the map before they are capped on because of the amount of speed the map gives you. I don't see how you could add a easy path anyways... its on a platform.
The map matches really good, the only thing i get annoyed about was already mentioned by Henrod. When your on 2 or something, and jump out you hit the hump and fall back instead of flying forward.
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we played them some times. its good but hard to get a flag when all cam at the houses.
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I'm surprised about the 2nd flag spot too. If you dont get it the speedy way, even if you can double jump (I'm fairly sure most IRC clan members can) it takes to much time to get there. DT usually worries a lot about the gameplay but this completely kills it, so thats why I'm surprised.
Thats not the only issue with this map but its probably the most important. I've matched in it twice and I wouldn't like to play it again unless it gets a major remake.
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This map would never get pubbed on due to its size, its a match map. And if somebody can't do the 'trick' jumps to 2, they probably can't get across the map before they are capped on because of the amount of speed the map gives you. I don't see how you could add a easy path anyways... its on a platform.
Yep.
But it is possible to build a tunnel in the wall behind 2nd as an easy way.
I'm surprised about the 2nd flag spot too. If you dont get it the speedy way, even if you can double jump (I'm fairly sure most IRC clan members can) it takes to much time to get there. DT usually worries a lot about the gameplay but this completely kills it, so thats why I'm surprised.
It takes ~ 10 seconds.
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Ain't that a long time?
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what are you talking about, from flag 1 to 2 is only about a few seconds. Same as any of his other maps.
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Ain't that a long time?
nope.
You need almost the same time on pb_renoir, carp and pb_pforest.
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Well the speed jump in pb_renoir and pb_pforest is much easier wich makes all the difference. And when going from flag1 to flag2 in pb_pforest its impossible to fail some jump, thus taking twice the time :)
I think it's a bad map and that second flag is especially badly placed. But if you guys like it who am I...
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I was interisteng about it, so I took some time and test it.
pbcup_renoir (jump from 1 to 2)- 5seconds
carpathian(bunker)-6seconds
pbcup_pforest(small bridge ramp jump)-4seconds
zpar11_beta-(double to box, then double to second)-8seconds
So on zpar it´s slowest, but thats just the fastest way, if you don´t do any trick jump it´s the same time on all these map I think.
I don´t think this is a bad map, but I personally like pbcup_pforest or carpathian or pbcup_renoir much more.
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If it takes so long to get to 2 from 1, go into the 'high bd' and jump straight to it and then drop to 1. OR Do speedjump to 2, from the hump. :)
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u can do it with doublejumps
Those are still trick jumps. Most players can't do that, and even if they can, the double jump path is pretty slow. Really, all the main gameplay objectives (flags and capture points) should be easily accessible to a person playing the game for the first time.
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Way to attack my clan specifically. I didn't say anything about you or your clan and I was purposefully ambiguous to avoid bringing our differences to the forums. I have many screenshots of playing your team on that map. I see you in 1 match there, which brings me to my next point. I believe DT said "Suggestions from people that have matched on it will be taken the most seriously as that is ultimately what it is meant for."
I do have a couple of screenshots showing 40 point plus deficits against UR there in less the 12 minutes. Don't really know how that happens when all we do is "sit high and peg people". I believe the fact that we have 60 of 64 points on one of those screenshots from capping proves conclusively that it is a multipath map. There are several combinations of paths available whether low or high, I truly don't understand how it "eliminates the more than one path mentality".
I did not doubt the fact that you kicked our ass everytime we played you there; I was actually complementing you for it. s2k is by far the most experienced clan in regards to this map, so the validity of your judgements is unquestionable. We did, however, play you on the map and we know how you play. The only time you lost to us was when I sat on 2 and camped the whole map. In regards to your playing style, You sit high and peg people no matter what "combination of paths" people take. Once you shoot one or two people, you rush in on the remaining member(s), grab, cap, etc. What I was trying to say but you obviously took as a personal attack, is that if somebody sits high and camps, it's virtually impossible to rush no matter what path is taken. Again, there goes the whole multipath approach.
Yes, once you get closer to base there's multiple paths, but there's ultimately one path that all these combinations end near and that's the hump which is easily campable via that high bridge - don't deny it.
As for matching on it, I've matched plenty of times on it, maybe not against you but certainly against others. Not to mention the time I've put in to finding out random jumps... considering nobody in my clan can jump properly meaning I have to find all the jumps myself.
Uhm...they can? You can hit 2 from the hump.
You have to be a lot closer to the flag to hit 2; the person sitting there has time to peg you as you approach it. I know because I did it.
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considering nobody in my clan can jump properly meaning I have to find all the jumps myself.
Where do you get your facts from sir?
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Those are still trick jumps. Most players can't do that, and even if they can, the double jump path is pretty slow. Really, all the main gameplay objectives (flags and capture points) should be easily accessible to a person playing the game for the first time.
ya so he should make a path like delphi said.
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btw u can grab the 2nd flag without any trick or doublejump in like 8 seconds und with doublejump in 4-5.
EDIT : demo : 1st to 2nd flag without any trickjump/doublejump
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The pbcup series of maps are some of the best match maps that are in the game. I was hoping zpar11 would keep this trend of game play and difficulty. However the only problem i have with this map is the singular route to 1st flag. pforest has ways around this singularity. Pbcup_renior has multiple paths to both flags. Zpar11 doesn't compete with these maps in my mind. If it wasn't so one way to both flags then this would also be an excellent match map like the others because of its size and complexity. The trick jumps don't bother me one bit it's what makes this game more challenging to some of the more seasoned players. Which is why when DT makes a map it is usually some of the best quality maps that this game holds for matching. If there were more routes to the 1st flag then possibly this map would live up to some of your better maps. Just my 2 cents.
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However the only problem i have with this map is the singular route to 1st flag.
I can think of 3.
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I can think of 3.
-Haystack to 1.(Speed)
-left side
-Ride side
-Drop from the 'high bd'
-Triple boxes.
rah.
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Those pillars supported by boxes look good!
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To what point in base though? Would this add an extra path to 2 having it open up on the back side of the base or with enough speed to reach it from where ever it is? Or would it just plop you down near or on 1?
EDIT: Saw the "almost in base" just now ^_^ how would making it exit ALMOST in base change the whole "single path" issue?
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I can think of 3.
-Haystack to 1.(Speed)
-left side
-Ride side
-Drop from the 'high bd'
-Triple boxes.
rah.
Neither one of you actually understood what I was talking about. DT understood on the money exactly what I referring to. Pretty much once you are IN THE BASE there is a very limited choice on how to get the first flag. You can go left or you can go right basically. I was saying that possibly a back path to the 1st flag would make things more interesting, or maybe a few more paths that lead out to in base.
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I'm thinking about extending the side route that goes from high mid to the hump so that it exits almost into the base.
I like the exit where's its at, it gives a good speed to get to flag from left. Unless you extended it to where a good jump would be able to reach the main bunker in front of flag.
And GLeader, there's 3 if you count dropping from high, but thats pointless instead of going for 2. :P
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r_speeds are bad .... =/
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r_speeds are bad .... =/
It's not easy to do a map like that without high r_speeds. Maybe dt could make them more slow, but if he can't, it's not really a big deal. This map can be playing with theses r_speeds, like renoir is played.