Digital Paint Discussion Board
Development => Bugs, Feature Requests, and Feedback => Topic started by: jitspoe on July 27, 2007, 10:55:37 PM
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Here's some ideas I've been tossing around for how the feature vote page should work:
- Each feature request will require its own topic. Users can request a feature to be added to the list by creating a topic about the feature and asking that it be put up for voting. I think this will keep the list a bit more organized than just letting people free form submit features to vote on. It might clutter the feature request boards up a bit at first, but it will also keep discussion more organized, rather than having 20 different topics going on at once in a single request thread. When the feature request is added to the list, it will have a link back to the thread so people can read it for more details.
- Users will be able to vote for (+) or against (-) a feature or cancel their vote at any time. Previous votes will be nullified.
- Features should be categorized. Some categories might include: Game (things that are implemented in the game code, such as new game modes), Administration (advanced logging, etc.), Media (better textures, models, sounds, etc.), Interface (Menu requests, etc.), Website (wiki related things, etc.), Client (client side demo recording, client side word filter, etc), Bug fixes (mouse issues on Vista), Server, Renderer, and General Engine.
- List could be sorted by a couple things - most recent votes, most votes, etc.
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So you only get one vote then?
And where would this page be? Where will it be linked?
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So you only get one vote then?
Hmm, I didn't see that... :-\
And where would this page be? Where will it be linked?
I got the impression were going to have a feature request board type thing (in the forum perhaps? :-\), where topics are created by users, voted on by other users, and implement based upon votes.
I also thought if users change their votes, it just cancels out the previous one. Yes?
Game
Admin
Media
Interface
Website //haha, one of my first votes would be to split up website and wiki on the feature request page, especially when we get something complex like mediawiki or something installed.
Wiki
client //does this cover the server browser?
bug fixes
server
renderer // this isn't something under the client?
general engine
What about something new, like, a new program to be added to the release, i mean, it's not really directly related to Game or Client. Maybe a miscellaneous/other board?
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- Users will be able to vote for (+) or against (-) a feature or cancel their vote at any time. Previous votes will be nullified.
Well, if I understand correctly, every time you vote for something every other vote will be deleted, but it could also be that the previous vote on that feature gets deleted.
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Jits need to clarify the voting, because I can see some members voting agains an enhancement just because someone they didn't exactly care for voted for it. ( ie... the karma system)
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how 'bout a sub-forum in the bugs/request section and vote via poll and vote only once and i believe the poll is anonymous. and i suggest the subject for the feature be short, simple and to the point, that way people see it and know what it is. For example, "Spawn Killing" and not "game play for no spawn killing..."
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I've been thinking about some features for this page, and then I came across and idea I liked.
-Include a bounty system.
Financially-inclined people could put their money where there mouth is, and offer up cash to see their features receive additional priority.
i.e.
1. User offers up $15 for idea x to be implemented.
2. Jitspoe could accept a $15 bounty, which would be PayPal'd ASAP.
3. Once Jitspoe gets the cash, that idea gets bumped up in the queue, right after the top two voted on items, and any other previous bounties.
Users could support DP, and see good ideas get implemented... I'm just tossing stuff out here.
Also, what about a tool that required people to classify their request very specifically before it was submitted, and required them to verify it wasn't like any of the others..
i.e.
User wants idea a
Falls under category b
Sub-cat c
Sub-cat d
..
x amount of other ideas found in this sub-category, please read each brief description... if anything matching yours, just click 'vote' and you'll vote for it.... other wise check the checkbox next to each items to verify it's not the same as your idea.
here's a picture to make this even more complicated....
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Hmmmm..... that could work y00tz the second one that is the first one could work kind of with some minor tweaks for example what happens if it is already in the top two also would it sort the bounties by the amount of money and votes? Another thing is if someone pays $15 dollars and it has only one vote what would happen would it go ahead of ones with more then 20 votes?
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Apocalypse, I look at it this way: The users WANT new features. The game NEEDS money for servers... stuff like TerraGen, etc. Why not find a system where we can have both?
I know some people would be upset that something with 2 votes got put ahead, but it's not like Jitspoe couldn't turn down bounties... If it' s a bad idea, it can just float, otherwise, it could be added to the fast track.
Jitspoe needs to generate revenue for the game. I'd like to see it done this way or through donations rather than he start charging for something like a 'gold membership' .. it's only fair that he stops paying whatever he is out of his pocket.
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I see your point y00tz that's why I was saying maybe that amount good be used as that amount of votes so say the pay 15 dollars then that counts as 15 dollars added on to the original that way you could get more chance of it being your idea if you payed more that way Jits could get even more for the game.
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Jits could get even more for the game.
You mean the people Jits pays for hosting, right? I honestly doubt he's anywhere close to breaking even on this game. Nate, correct me if I'm wrong... :D
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It would still help him out though.
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maybe have $1 be equal to 1 vote? that way a user could boost his favourite up a lot by donating, yet the most desired features would receive a good consideration in the process.
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/me puts $15 on VWEP and $15 on GRAPPLE FTW!!!
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maybe have $1 be equal to 1 vote? that way a user could boost his favourite up a lot by donating, yet the most desired features would receive a good consideration in the process.
$1/ vote... ehh... I think it would be best to keep top REAL votes, separate from top donations.
I think that the top two VOTED ON should always remain at the top or maybe 2nd and third... that way there's a little bit of community vote.
What if the competition that the Karma System had, caught on here? Eiii donates $10 to x, I donate $10 y, the winner here? Paintball 2.
The idea would be to get competition going... good ideas with no votes would be fueled by bounties...
/me puts $15 on VWEP and $15 on GRAPPLE FTW!!!
/me makes that $30 for grapple...
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y00tz that is my point exactly say like you just said one person makes it 10 for x then some other person makes it 20 for y it will turn into a bid and Jits and this game will gain from this.
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and this game will gain from this.
And that's all I honestly want. More than anything :D Well... love from Lexi is nice...
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If the money thing is implemented, I hope jits gets to veto stuff.
Actually, I hope the money thing isn't implemented. It'd be a bad idea to let a small group of 5-10 people control the direction of this game.
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If the money thing is implemented, I hope jits gets to veto stuff.
.. Of course he would.
Actually, I hope the money thing isn't implemented. It'd be a bad idea to let a small group of 5-10 people control the direction of this game.
Now I'm positive you didn't read anything above.
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<_< I might have skimmed. Lots to catch up on, you know.
EDIT: Yeah, in the end it'd be jits controlling pb's direction. Disregard me.
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/me puts $15 on VWEP and $15 on GRAPPLE FTW!!!
/me turns down the $15 grapple bounty.
Silly kids. :)
Just for clarification, I was referring to votes on a per item basis. So if you voted, say, for the "tag" game mode, then decided against it, you could cancel your vote or change it to a vote against the feature. Your other feature votes wouldn't be impacted.
I doubt I'd see much, if any, activity in the bounty system area, but it's an interesting idea. Should people be able to use the bounty to vote AGAINST a feature? Could somebody, say, put $50 down against the grapple hook suggestion and drop it down to the bottom of the pile?
Also, should votes be anonymous, or should they be listed like they are now?
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OMG
I got pwned!!!
/me calls Sir Femboticus to handle the issue.....
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grapple hook? off-hand grapple hook... i remember playing Q2 Loki Minion's CTF (LMCTF) and it had the best off-hand grappling hook...
why can't you just allow one post per person and not allowed changes? that just forces the person to make sure they want to make the right decision... to have the ability to change the vote... may trigger a lot of people changeing every now and then
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Kore what happens if someone gives out an idea which they like more after they already vote what happens then?
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why can't you just allow one post per person and not allowed changes? that just forces the person to make sure they want to make the right decision... to have the ability to change the vote... may trigger a lot of people changeing every now and then
They couldn't, if they ever changed their vote, they'd null out their vote, thus no flip-flopping or your vote doesn't count.
I think it's a good idea.
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But y00tz think then they'd have to wait till the end of 2007 to see if there is a thing you want more maybe have a limited amount of times you can change your vote if you guys want it that bad.
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Just for clarification, I was referring to votes on a per item basis. So if you voted, say, for the "tag" game mode, then decided against it, you could cancel your vote or change it to a vote against the feature. Your other feature votes wouldn't be impacted
You can vote on EVERYTHING Apocalypse.
But say if down the road, you didn't like your vote. It'd be nulled (on second thought, maybe Jits is saying it could change or be cancelled?) Heh
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Ok now this is just getting confusing lol I'll have to read the whole thread over again.
Edit: Okay I think he's saying that if later on you said oh I don't really want it to be that I'll cancel it or actually that's a really bad idea I don't want it to be implemented let's put a minus on it.
Also I think now that I've reread what you said I see what you're saying that you shouldn't be able to just keep saying to cancel then negate then vote for it and keep doing this am I right?
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Also I think now that I've reread what you said I see what you're saying that you shouldn't be able to just keep saying to cancel then negate then vote for it and keep doing this am I right?
You're correct.
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grapple hook? off-hand grapple hook... i remember playing Q2 Loki Minion's CTF (LMCTF) and it had the best off-hand grappling hook...
Off Topic Warning:
LMCTF was one of my favorite Q2 mods next to TWCTF for QW and Q2.
LMCTF Web Site (http://lmctf.planetquake.gamespy.com/)
On Edit: ROFLCOPTER!!!!! This is my 666 post!!!
For you id die hards out there, you will know the significance of that number as it was the original port number for network d00m (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_666) and is still the official port number in the standard 1024 registered ports number list.
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i.m not sure about the bounty idea. With regards to improvements surely it would be best to keep the more popular improvements at the top of the pile? Rather than perhaps an improvement only 1 person wants, but is willing to pay for. Like Jits said I don't think their would be much activity in it anyway, but it also goes against the basis of a "Feature Vote" (Voters can't pay to get more votes in local elections :P)
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Kore what happens if someone gives out an idea which they like more after they already vote what happens then?
the one vote will have to make it count, make people REALLY think if they want the features or not... I mean, you dont get the nullify your vote for president (or in my case a prime minister) ;) I know there will be people that will say "oh, this is a great idea" and put a vote it in and possibly 5mins later realized they've played this style/mod before and didn't like it so they cancel their votes and could even reconsider again (a few days) later and actually want that feature in the game. Make the vote count and make sure it's WHAT YOU WANT.
LMCTF rocks! Loved their custom maps... too bad no one plays anymore :(
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Why would it matter if somebody voted, canceled, voted again, canceled, voted against, voted for, etc.? It's the final vote that counts, and in the end, it's still just 1 vote.
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I suppose not... but wouldn't that get annoying when they keep changing their minds??
what if the vote is differed by 1 vote or tied? they affect the final vote by change their vote to make it for or against it. (yes, i know it don't make much sense...) how 'bout anonymous voting?
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All the voting is for is to help prioritize which features should be worked on. It doesn't really matter if there's a tie or close votes. The most voted for feature may not even be the one I work on next. It just gives me a way to see what the community thinks is most important and work on the most popular features first.
Votes could be anonymous. I can set it up either way. Do they really need to be, though? Maybe I could set it up so people can choose if they want their vote to be anonymous or not, and if not, it counts for more. I'm not sure why somebody would want to be anonymous with a feature request vote. Maybe I could make a poll to decide that.
Edit: And here it is: http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?topic=8255.0
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Maybe you should make a poll about that poll being anonymous too lol.
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Just bumping this up again as I thought of another thing that would be useful: dependencies. For example, if somebody voted for "map preview screenshots", that would also cast a vote for "variables in menu widgets", as widget variables are required to (feasibly) implement preview screenshots. I imagine most people think about what they want and not about what is necessary to accomplish what they want.
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That's a good idea.
Suppose something is added and requires something else as a dependency, if the original item is voted for, than it adds a vote to that and the dependencies UNLESS the users has already voted for dependencies?
I was planning on bumping a few big topics tonight but I'll just let them hang. How far down is this in your priorities list? I've noticed you were online a bit more this week, I hope work has settled down for now :P
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Devolpment
Deployment
Quality
Damage control
Growth
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How far down is this in your priorities list?
Depends on how many people vote for it. I'm still wrapping up the fast downloading code. I haven't had much time to work on it because of Real Life™ activities.
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Just bumping this thread up since sk89q has offered to help out coding this. Thanks, sk89q!
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Progress:
Viewing/filtering feature lists - DONE
Voting - DONE
User's votes list page - DONE
ACP - IN PROGRESS
Permissions/checks cleanup stuff - NOT DONE
Cleanup scripts - NOT DONE
Integrating with site theme - NOT DONE
Old screenshot:
(http://sk89q.therisenrealm.com/uploads/feature_vote_screenshot.png)
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Looks great sk89q can't wait for this to be finished :D
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Looks good. So are we gonna do the whole bounty thing, or was that idea shot down?
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Well, judging for the "+0 Bounty" and -0 Bounty" things, I guess we are.
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Bounty is partially supported, as in it's displayed and understood by the system, but there's no way to add or remove bounty except by divine intervention (i.e. admin's access to the database). I don't know if I will add bounty, because I'd have to add another table to join (to be organized), and unless I have some other need than for bounty, I may or may not do it.
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<3
Is the 'status' thing really necessary really needed? I mean, things are on the list until they're completed, and then they're removed from the list.
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OR they can stay on the list once they're completed!
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But why? No one (should) re-request them because they're in the game. Plus, then they just take up space on the list- each build, the items completed at the top of the list would stay there. Distracting.
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Maybe moved to a "completed" section?
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The statuses are "closed," "open," "in progress," and "implemented." By default, the filters on the index page *only* show open items so the things you do not want to see do not take up space. You have to explicitly ask to show implemented items to see them.
(http://sk89q.therisenrealm.com/uploads/featurelist.png)
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Okay then. :)
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Are the status, types, category, etc. defined by a table or hard coded? Doesn't really matter either way - just curious.
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Features are stored in another table.
Votes are stored in another table (with one vote = one row).
Categories are stored in another table.
Dependencies are in another table (with one dependency link = one row).
Status and type are technically neither. I didn't want the weight of a whole table, but I didn't want the lack of normality completely... so they are PHP arrays in a global file. :D
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Perfect job for Java+JDBC+WebWork+Freemarker+display tag :D
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-1 for the bounty feature.
and sk89q, that looks way kool.
besides, who needs an admin interface? just let 'em edit the raw database with phpMyAdmin!! ;)
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'em = jitspoe
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ok ... well ... yah ... i was just being more general about it ... as in, no matter who the admin is. :P
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ok ... well ... yah ... i was just being more general about it ... as in, no matter who the admin is. :P
An admin interface would allow more people than just jitspoe to handle it :P
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But why is that necessary?
I like the idea of accountability in the hands of Jitspoe ... especially something as self-regulating as a feature vote thread.
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/me reminds y00tz of Jitspoes masses of free time, as well as his new job :P
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here's another idea.
instead of only having options for +/-1 point, what about if people could assign up to +/-2 depending on how much they value (or dislike) the feature? (meaning they would have the options +2, +1, -1, and -2)
i saw something like this as i was looking around the net for feature vote scripts and stuff.
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/me reminds y00tz of Jitspoes masses of free time, as well as his new job :P
I mean, sure we may see a few spoof/joke votes for a little bit that occasionally may need to be removed.. but having an admin system where multiple people have access to edit the feature vote page seems abundant.
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Just sent the .zip with the feature vote to jitspoe.
(http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/4065/featurevoteiu5.png)
(http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/7439/featurevote1dr1.png)
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Yeah, I want my forums to look like that.
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Yeah, I want my forums to look like that.
Agreed.
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<3 sk89q
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Looks awesome.
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On another note, if jitspoe download the .zip before this message, please redownload it. I lied to Zorch and did more testing -- fixed a few things.
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wow, impressive sk89q. can't wait!
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On another note, if jitspoe download the .zip before this message, please redownload it. I lied to Zorch and did more testing -- fixed a few things.
Thanks for all your hard work. I'll try to get it up soon.
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Thanks again for putting this together - seems to be working pretty well, but I am getting some errors in the log:
[Sat Jan 05 23:45:41 2008] [error] [client 206.255.6.106] PHP Notice: Undefined variable: content_header_exists in /var/www/html/dplogin/featurevote/include/FVTemplate.php on line 27, referer: http://dplogin.com/dplogin/featurevote/index.php?type%5B%5D=0&type%5B%5D=1&type%5B%5D=2&status%5B%5D=0&status%5B%5D=1&status%5B%5D=2&status%5B%5D=3&category%5B%5D=5&category%5B%5D=4&category%5B%5D=7&category%5B%5D=1&category%5B%5D=2&category%5B%5D=6&category%5B%5D=3&summary=
(perhaps that should be static, not global? Not sure how php handles that).
[Sat Jan 05 23:45:41 2008] [error] [client 206.255.6.106] PHP Notice: Undefined variable: edit_link in /var/www/html/dplogin/featurevote/feature.php on line 151, referer: http://dplogin.com/dplogin/featurevote/index.php?type%5B%5D=0&type%5B%5D=1&type%5B%5D=2&status%5B%5D=0&status%5B%5D=1&status%5B%5D=2&status%5B%5D=3&category%5B%5D=5&category%5B%5D=4&category%5B%5D=7&category%5B%5D=1&category%5B%5D=2&category%5B%5D=6&category%5B%5D=3&summary=
[Sat Jan 05 23:39:32 2008] [error] [client 72.187.138.224] PHP Notice: Undefined index: offset in /var/www/html/dplogin/featurevote/index.php on line 12, referer: http://dplogin.com/dplogin/featurevote/submit.php[Sat Jan 05 23:39:32 2008] [error] [client 72.187.138.224] PHP Notice: Undefined variable: summary in /var/www/html/dplogin/featurevote/index.php on line 156, referer: http://dplogin.com/dplogin/featurevote/submit.php[Sat Jan 05 23:39:32 2008] [error] [client 72.187.138.224] PHP Notice: Undefined index: first_disabled in /var/www/html/dplogin/featurevote/include/Paginator.php on line 173, referer: http://dplogin.com/dplogin/featurevote/submit.php[Sat Jan 05 23:39:32 2008] [error] [client 72.187.138.224] PHP Notice: Undefined index: previous_disabled in /var/www/html/dplogin/featurevote/include/Paginator.php on line 182, referer: http://dplogin.com/dplogin/featurevote/submit.php[Sat Jan 05 23:39:32 2008] [error] [client 72.187.138.224] PHP Notice: Undefined index: next_disabled in /var/www/html/dplogin/featurevote/include/Paginator.php on line 222, referer: http://dplogin.com/dplogin/featurevote/submit.php[Sat Jan 05 23:39:32 2008] [error] [client 72.187.138.224] PHP Notice: Undefined index: last_disabled in /var/www/html/dplogin/featurevote/include/Paginator.php on line 231, referer: http://dplogin.com/dplogin/featurevote/submit.php
[Sat Jan 05 23:37:58 2008] [error] [client 206.255.6.106] PHP Notice: Undefined variable: content_header_exists in /var/www/html/dplogin/featurevote/include/FVTemplate.php on line 27, referer: http://dplogin.com/dplogin/featurevote/index.php?type%5B%5D=0&type%5B%5D=1&type%5B%5D=2&status%5B%5D=0&status%5B%5D=1&status%5B%5D=2&status%5B%5D=3&category%5B%5D=5&category%5B%5D=4&category%5B%5D=7&category%5B%5D=1&category%5B%5D=2&category%5B%5D=6&category%5B%5D=3&summary=[Sat Jan 05 23:39:03 2008] [error] [client 72.187.138.224] PHP Notice: Undefined index: offset in /var/www/html/dplogin/featurevote/index.php on line 12, referer: http://dplogin.com/dplogin/featurevote/index.php?type%5B%5D=0&type%5B%5D=1&status%5B%5D=0&category%5B%5D=5&category%5B%5D=4&category%5B%5D=7&category%5B%5D=1&category%5B%5D=2&category%5B%5D=6&category%5B%5D=3&summary=[Sat Jan 05 23:39:03 2008] [error] [client 72.187.138.224] PHP Notice: Undefined variable: summary in /var/www/html/dplogin/featurevote/index.php on line 156, referer: http://dplogin.com/dplogin/featurevote/index.php?type%5B%5D=0&type%5B%5D=1&status%5B%5D=0&category%5B%5D=5&category%5B%5D=4&category%5B%5D=7&category%5B%5D=1&category%5B%5D=2&category%5B%5D=6&category%5B%5D=3&summary=[Sat Jan 05 23:39:03 2008] [error] [client 72.187.138.224] PHP Notice: Undefined index: first_disabled in /var/www/html/dplogin/featurevote/include/Paginator.php on line 173, referer: http://dplogin.com/dplogin/featurevote/index.php?type%5B%5D=0&type%5B%5D=1&status%5B%5D=0&category%5B%5D=5&category%5B%5D=4&category%5B%5D=7&category%5B%5D=1&category%5B%5D=2&category%5B%5D=6&category%5B%5D=3&summary=[Sat Jan 05 23:39:03 2008] [error] [client 72.187.138.224] PHP Notice: Undefined index: previous_disabled in /var/www/html/dplogin/featurevote/include/Paginator.php on line 182, referer: http://dplogin.com/dplogin/featurevote/index.php?type%5B%5D=0&type%5B%5D=1&status%5B%5D=0&category%5B%5D=5&category%5B%5D=4&category%5B%5D=7&category%5B%5D=1&category%5B%5D=2&category%5B%5D=6&category%5B%5D=3&summary=[Sat Jan 05 23:39:03 2008] [error] [client 72.187.138.224] PHP Notice: Undefined index: next_disabled in /var/www/html/dplogin/featurevote/include/Paginator.php on line 222, referer: http://dplogin.com/dplogin/featurevote/index.php?type%5B%5D=0&type%5B%5D=1&status%5B%5D=0&category%5B%5D=5&category%5B%5D=4&category%5B%5D=7&category%5B%5D=1&category%5B%5D=2&category%5B%5D=6&category%5B%5D=3&summary=[Sat Jan 05 23:39:03 2008] [error] [client 72.187.138.224] PHP Notice: Undefined index: last_disabled in /var/www/html/dplogin/featurevote/include/Paginator.php on line 231, referer: http://dplogin.com/dplogin/featurevote/index.php?type%5B%5D=0&type%5B%5D=1&status%5B%5D=0&category%5B%5D=5&category%5B%5D=4&category%5B%5D=7&category%5B%5D=1&category%5B%5D=2&category%5B%5D=6&category%5B%5D=3&summary=[Sat Jan 05 23:39:19 2008] [error] [client 72.187.138.224] PHP Notice: Use of undefined constant referrer_check - assumed 'referrer_check' in /var/www/html/dplogin/featurevote/submit.php on line 4, referer: http://dplogin.com/dplogin/featurevote/index.php
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Well, I usually don't code for the level of E_NOTICE. Those errors means I did not define array keys/variables before I used them. The easy fix is to use error_reporting(E_ALL ^ E_NOTICE); in functions.php. However, if you need to have those errors actually fixed, I can do that pretty easily once I get back to the environment where I have those files (and I get some time).
And as for the dependency voting, I forgot/didn't think about that. Although, to think about it, implementing it could be a little pain-in-the-arse due to nested dependencies and removing votes.
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I wouldn't worry about removing votes, just the initial submission. I don't know if nested dependencies would happen, either. They'd probably be rare.
Edit: Did the E_NOTICE thing - hopefully that will keep the logs clean for the moment.
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Could vehicles be added to the feature vote? Completely map specific, and something small, like a quadbike.
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Go make a post in the feature vote section (http://dplogin.com/forums/index.php?board=18.0).
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Maybe not, I'm not sure it would be such I great feature. I might post it anyway, could see what people think.