Voice of community

[coLa]

And in the process you've flamed knack and others. At this point, I don't think sk89q should be banned from the forums at all, since you clearly deserve whatever you said.

That aside, sk89q's acted very well in the past. He contributes to the game and helps those who need help. You, on the other hand, hardly seem to be worth having around. I think he can be forgiven for letting some things slip. But you really have to get off this. Everyone knows what happened, everyone knows sk89q insulted you, and everyone knows he hasn't been banned yet. Maybe he will get banned, maybe he won't. But either way, whining about it in every other post you make isn't going to make your case look any better.

lmfao. since everyone loves to bring real life situations into the forums, i should too. but i won't, because the justice system is so flawed it's not even worth it. this reminds me of celebrities and drug dealers that pay off judges and cops to be let off the hook. lmfao. no matter if sk89q has contributed to the game/forum or not,  he should have to follow the same rules as everyone else. i've seen people get banned for defending themselves. it's sad really. sk89q deserves a forum ban for what he said, plain and simple. and so does y2j for what he said to knack. but it is likely that only y2j will be banned and not sk89q. looks like the justice system is not the only thing that is flawed. =\

[FlaMe]

* Flame personally attacks coLa and Y2J... ban him

<3 coLa this week, no homo

[coLa]

haha.

[cusoman]

LOL I'm glad in the midst of an argument everyone is still friends   But cola, I did read your post, and here is my take on things.

You speedhack for 1 second and you, by the current system, get a 32 day ban.
You speedhack for 30 years, 3 days, and 3 hours, and you get a 32 day ban.

What i believe is because these infractions are so serious, this should be treated different than any other type of ban, and should, as I said earlier, not be treated in a Black and White fashion.  You believe that no matter the amount, you should be banned equally, but I must reiterate that 1 (or perhaps in Queenies case 2-3) does not equal 10.  I would like to know just how many servers Sonny personally crashed, and how many he did not crash and was blamed for, because i believe those numbers are necessary for comparison to other number of crashes. 

Sonny's Ban length/# of servers crash ratio should be a standard, and all others that crashed servers, outside of their own, should get a ban sentence in correlation with that ratio.  Any crashing that goes on from now on should be a 32 day ban no question, but because of the time and the lack of knowledge when some of the test crashes were made, and because of the confusing scenario, and because the "test" crashers did benefit the community with their knowledge, they should not be banned with 32 days, but in fact should be banned via ratio due to the strange and most likely never to occur again scenario.

Btw I do love that whole "lovable soft drink" thing you have going on cola.
-Cusoman

[Y2J]

And in the process you've flamed knack and others. At this point, I don't think sk89q should be banned from the forums at all, since you clearly deserve whatever you said.

That aside, sk89q's acted very well in the past. He contributes to the game and helps those who need help. You, on the other hand, hardly seem to be worth having around. I think he can be forgiven for letting some things slip. But you really have to get off this. Everyone knows what happened, everyone knows sk89q insulted you, and everyone knows he hasn't been banned yet. Maybe he will get banned, maybe he won't. But either way, whining about it in every other post you make isn't going to make your case look any better.

Harsh, almost hurts me coming from a worthless person like you EIII, who we all know it is useless to keep around.

[Eiii]

zomg personal attack ban plz. :<

[jitspoe]

Good grief, you guys make a huge deal out of anything.  Sonny went and sequentially knocked a large percentage of servers offline.  I have direct evidence of this.  Many people, including myself, felt some sort of punishment was necessary for his malicious actions, so I gave him a global ban.  He obviously knew what would happen after he did it once.  There was no need to knock a bunch of servers offline.  If you feel it's OK for people to run around wreaking havoc and disrupting other's ability to play the game, you're welcome to your opinion, but I'm not going to let it fly.  I don't have time for this, especially right now.

[coLa]

i don't believe the ban time should be dependent on the amount of servers crashed. that is an outrageous amount of time for those who did it more than once, and not enough time for the people who did it one time. there currently is no  system for adding ban time according to the number of whatever it is. why bring it into play now. i know this is a new situation and it needs to be handled in a different way. but by separating ban lengths depending on the amount is not the best way to handle it. give everyone the same amount of time.

[cusoman]

Well, Cola, I believe a justice system should be dynamic, and with the committee being created, it recently is.  To the average person, aka: you and me, bans go about the same way, but the committee was created to solve abnormal problems, which would be this one.  Whenever the committee is called to duty, it is usually over a severe and contradicting scenario, and as such, rules differ by scenario.  Because in this scenario, there was more harm done by certain people than others, I believe this would definitely fall under the "Committee gets involved in a complicated and dynamic situation" and as such, I believe should ban based on damage done, not based on a 'no matter what 32 day ban', because some people probably deserver 64 day bans, and others probably deserve 4-8.  Since I do not actually no the # of servers crashed by whom, I am generalizing, please keep this in mind.
-Cusoman

[coLa]

eh... both of us are entitled to our opinions... it could go on forever. let's just end it and see what the committee decides.

[y00tz]

eh... both of us are entitled to our opinions... it could go on forever.

Exactly, "matter of opinion" was my exact phrase.   
We elected them because we trust that our best interest is their concern, so lets just leave this to the committee.

[cusoman]

Agreed, I'm done if your done.  Nice little battle we had thought.  Good mind exercise. Hopefully the committee will end this shortly.
-Cusoman

[y00tz]

"mind exercise" for you, "headache" for me...

[P!nk]

I don't have time for this, especially right now.

To summarize what we have been talking about in all these threads:
How should the ban time be determined for all the other people that crashed servers?
Is Knack biased in banning?
Is the committee too sluggish?

And if you make a game, make it a dino game.

[HadeZ]

Anyone that caused the servers to crash need to be banned.  I do not care how long of a member you are of this community.  That crap was so annoying and sonny told others and they did it as well I will not public say names.  I do not care if you wanted to see if it was true. I do not care if you were double dared.  If you did it ban them.  That day was such a bullexcrement nonsense display of immaturity you would of thought DABO rose up out of no where.

[SouljaBoy]

How nice that as predicted, Y2J gets banned from the forums, while those who personally attack him are still able to post.

Lets evaluate the problems this game has:
- A committee that takes to long to react to situations (hell, jitspoe could have taken 2 weeks to decide something, we don't need a committee for that)
- Yootz and Knack refusing to ban SK89Q when they saw his personal attack on me, deleting my post and edgecrusher's post that were valid arguments
- Me getting banned for a personal attack, when clearly you don't get banned for personal attacks (as sk89q didn't get)
- Unfair banning by jitspoe. I'm glad you have the evidence he crashed servers, so did many other people. BAN THEM ALL, don't ban just one.
- Knack thinking no one else shares my view, when I've seen at least 3 others post in defense of me, and if other people weren't afraid of him abusing his admin power, more would probably speak up.

If you're an admin or committee members, leave any biases you have behind, and do you job, something many of you are forgetting, which is what makes having a committee and admins like Knack so useless.

[Eiii]

I'll say this again. One time can be forgiven. Y2J's last several posts were all offensive. Yes, being good and helpful will get you a get-out-of-jail-free card for minor offenses. Get over it.

[coLa]

I'll say this again. One time can be forgiven. Y2J's last several posts were all offensive. Yes, being good and helpful will get you a get-out-of-jail-free card for minor offenses. Get over it.

how is that the right way to handle it? that is total bias, and a load of crap. each and everyone one of us have to follow the same rules, whether it be in-game or on the forums. why should sk89q be let off the hook because he has been "good and helpful"? if you are not going to ban everyone the same way for the same reason others would be banned, then why are you a Moderator? 

[XtremeBain]

I've taken a step back from all of this in the last day, and in retrospect, I think that I'm really to blame for starting all of this.  The rest of this post is mainly just my intepretation of some of the events that took place.

In the original thread, people had been reporting that servers were being rampantly crashed, at first by Sonny and then quickly server admins and other players started seeing that the servers were being crashed by many players, not just Sonny.

I made a post in response to having seen the command pop up in a couple public IRC channels.  I hold no authority in this community beyond sharing administrative responsabilities on the #eR33t-Gaming servers.  Our server is really the least of the entire community's concern in all of this.  I had already notified every server admin I could think of with a workaround to the problem and this couldn't have been done without the help of people like Viciouz, sk89q and krewzer who had been logging, testing and determining the root cause of the problem on their and other servers.  I had stepped in and threatened bans because I knew that I wasn't going to be patching the problem on my servers and because I knew that jitspoe wasn't going to have the problem fixed for my server anytime soon.

KnacK then quoted my post and elaborated on it in his.  This is where I think KnacK used the wrong words, came across the wrong way, or maybe even crossed the line.  KnacK is a member of the Global Moderators team on these forums, and also happens to be a committee member.  I don't think that him or the other Global Moderators can be making statements like this on these forums since it does not pertain to the administration or maintenance of these forums.  As a committee member, he does not represent the committee as a whole.  I think everyone failed to realize that this post was nothing more than his own personal oppinion.  He is one member of a ten member team of community members that were "elected" to vote on various aspects when it comes to unique situations that may or may not result in a ban.  It might be fair to warn that there may be action taken against anyone that was reported crashing a server, which may have effect for people on all servers, but not that there were no excuses.  Of course there are excuses, and there have to be exceptions.  If not, then the committee wouldn't even exist.

This entire argument, including the numerous locked threads, flaming, forum bans and everything else was simply because it was stated by a Global Moderator and Committee Member that there would be action taken against players reported using this exploit.  Whether or not these actions would result in a ban or not should be decided by the committee as a whole, and jitspoe will make the official post in the Cheater Reports and Bans forum.

KnacK, y00tz and jitspoe deleting posts, locking threads and banning people from the forums as part of diffusing the situation is part of their responsabilities.  People got way too caught up in defending other's actions, and voicing their concerns with the action that the committee should take.  Some of the people who replied in these threads are members of the committee, but everyone has to remember that one, or a couple members do not speak on behalf of the entire committee and its actions.  These members may individually speak with players and server admins through PMs on the forums or IRC, and possibly on Ventrilo/TS2 with these people as part of an investigation that the committee is conducting, but their posts on the forums or what they say on IRC is never to be taken as something said on behalf of the entire committee.

Please leave all Global Bans for all activities except detected cheater related issues up to the committee since that is their responsability.  Please leave all local bans up to the server admins so that they can manage their own server as they see fit.  Please do not think that retroactively treating this issue with parity in all bans is the best solution.  If I have to see someone like sk89q or Y2J walk away from this community for something that has been blown way out of proportion then I'll be pretty disapppointed.

[Eiii]

why should sk89q be let off the hook because he has been "good and helpful"?

You answered your own question there. Some people are easier to forgive than others because they have chosen to be good and helpful. And from what I know of the posts, sk89q's comments weren't entirely in line, but they didn't sound bannable either. If you're advocating mods crack down on those who even midly insult others, and deliver retroactive bans for those comments, you yourself would probably be banned for years by this point.

if you are not going to ban everyone the same way for the same reason others would be banned, then why are you a Moderator? 

If you're talking specifically to me and not just mods in general, I'm flattered.