The Real Problem...

[Blitz]

You've taken this responsibility upon yourself, no one held a gun to your head and made you take on this project of re-vamping DP. I don't doubt that you're putting in more effort towards the community than anyone else -- but what's your point? After all, this is "your game" ...it seems like you should have more responsibility than Joe Black over there on the public server.

Your replys seem very defensive, and I would like to get one thing clear -- I am not trying to just slander you and your effort into the game. I am very glad that you have stepped up and taken this project into your hands. There are, without a doubt, more players now in the public scene than there would be if there was no stand-alone development. This is great; the more people in this community, the more time we all have to enjoy a great game.

I applaud the fact that you're running servers, and that you're taking tme out to help people with map-making problems. This is all great...

The only thing I don't like, and I know I am not alone here, is how you have chosen to implement play-altering functionality into the game. This conversation reminds me of one years ago, when everything was in turmoil with the (then) newly implemented ball flight.

I remember a comment you made, in particular -- "people hate change.."

So true, people do. Maybe what eiii said is right, the mass of this community just isn't ready to seriously discuss changes in an efficient way. But, at the same time -- I feel that the extreme opposite (in this case, one person) is also not the way to go. Perhaps I'm wrong, and I'm certainly willing to accept my opinion as so.

To summarize my thoughts, I am much less irritated when I do not have to voice my opinion after the fact. You made a statement about how it's not sensibile to discuss something that hasn't been implemented.This is what I don't understand. Really, I think we both have valid points -- but you win, this is "your game." Just know that everyone doesn't agree.

You have NOT ruined the game. You've made significant changes. My objection comes not on the changes themselves, but the way in which they have been introduced.

Again, people do not like change (even if for the best). So gradually introduce us to them. Otherwise, expect harsh criticizm.

[digi]

I agree with Blitz (about how you said it's not sensible to discuss changes that haven't been made) -- This is true in some cases, yes.. but impact grenades? no recon? shooting straight instead of lob? All of these things, you can easily take a guess as to what it would be like. We know what recon is like, so no recon would be the opposite.. etc. Rarely would you actually have to make the change first for it to be discussed.

[Blitz]

They're not hard to see...

What's the point of a comment like that? Okay, so you think they're not hard to see. digi disagrees.
And? No need for us to talk about things that are purely subjective. He's not the only one that finds the quake models easier to view, and clearly not everyone disagrees with you.

There's a difference between expressing your opinion on something that is absolute and already defined (ie, jitspoe HAS released client side toggleable grenades), and when you disagree with someone's opinon (ie, digi THINKS that the models are hard to see).

Let's try to keep on topic with these kinds of posts, otherwise we end up in a useless flame war where a whole lot of nothing gets said.. and we all lose a few IQ points

[IronFist]

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[Eiii]

Okay. WHY do you think they're easier to see?

And yes, the crouching is awesome.

[Dirty_Taco]

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[digi]

I also find paintballs VERY hard to see in the alpha. especially on darker maps, I find I can barely see them at all.

[S8NSSON]

Jitspoe, I think you are doing a fine job.
In an attempt to not leave the game stagnent you continually develope. That rocks. There may be a few things I don't entirely agree with (maintaining backwards compatability, for one), but the truth is, you're meddling this chick, we're all just holding the wings.

Keep on keeping on. Somethings will work out, some won't.
The plans that you have for this game are going to be great.

LOD on the new character is porobably a pretty high priority I bet.
Get Rob on it. Have ya talk to him about it?

BTW: I use the build15 that Jitspoe gave me at DPCON, in high res mode, and I love it. Does it make me lag more? WHO GIVES A intercourse it looks great!!! Make the playing experience a little better for me.

Maybe we need a Renaissance...maybe we'll have one soon!

[loial21]

Why complain now? Not when 15, 14, 13 was released?

[loial21]

Lol, what you so long to complain, again.??

[gwb]

jitspoe, when you don't listen  what else do people have to do to get your attention? everyone who runs a server just happens to leave the pathetic default settings on thinking its the way it should be. i believe most people don't like having to come here when they are already on irc, you don't do very much to accomodate anyone at all. thats a real popular route to take as you've seen. so yes, you deserve all of the negativity you've seen on here and on irc for years. you've seen a lot of people complain about the settings YOU took apon YOURSELF to add as default. being forced to play the game the way you like it is a waste of everyones time. if you ran a company like that, it'd be out of business, cause i know you're not making a fortune selling "dp shirts". why is it that when you see someone bad mouthing you, you don't really do anything to change, just stay quite or run away....i didn't know that was the correct way with dealing with problems, gotta try it sometime.

[Eiii]

I'm just asking, are you referring to the non-classic Graf servers? Because those aren't the default settings.

Jits, I for one think you're doing a great job listening to and evaluating community feedback. I can't say I agree with all the changes, but it's your game.

[S8NSSON]

I think all you mother intercoursers need to just back the intercourse on off of Jitspoe.
He listens.
He is also in a position to where he doesn't want to piss off the old community, but also wants to draw in the new player. And like all companies looking to expand thier market that involves change. It just so happens that this change can not be reliably achieved listening to community feedback.

It's a risk process. Jitspoe has ideas. Some of these ideas may not affect the current community, but some may. Jitspoe's ideas (of which i've heard about a few future ideas and am very excited) are designed to get this game up closer with today's game technology. He must do this if he is to draw in any new players. Gaming has advanced too far for this game to get much new player notice otherwise. Some of these ideas will succeed, some won't. Some will have virtually no affect to the current community, but may just be that little spark of today's technology that makes a new player take a chance and give it a try.

You see Jitspoe, as I see it, is in a unique position. He is the president of DP. This allows him to play game software god and see if he can take this old tired game, revamp it, and make it rise from the ashes. If he succeeds he has a great addition to his resume, a great sense of accomplishment, and a happy community that he created. If he fails he still has a great addition to his resume (because failure in the wake of great effort is still a highly praised commodity). This is valuable experience for Jitspoe, who I know longs to be working in gaming instead of cameras.

I don't take Jitspoe for an idiot. And not listening to all of you would make him just that. So don't think that he doesn't listen, because I can assure you he does.

If you want to be a louder voice this is not the way to do it. Getting involved in testing, reviewing, and developing IS the way. I helped with the new character model. In doing so I feel I had a good deal of input on the final product. I also learned Jitspoe is a hard-headed ass to work with j/k .

[gwb]

You see Jitspoe, as I see it, is in a unique position. He is the president of DP


nobody ever voted him in. he's failing, someone please impeach him/her. btw do you really call begging people to come to dp con a real success in expansion for a good game made crappy by one kid? he doesn't even code on his own, he gets a lot of help doing it. i wish cyberdog had stayed and helped make dp, but the two little idiots calrathan and jitspoe took a different path, that path was a good one for a while, till cal just completely gave up on making dp happen. jitspoe has flat out ruined the game. why don't you realize that tons of people use to play it, now only a handfull do. doesn't anyone wonder why we've gone from over a dozen clans to only 3 or 4 that don't even match? yeah, s8n, stick up for your little friend jitspoe because he needs someone to defend him, because he will not defend himself. just blame everyone for his poor choices and refusal to listen to anything.


real life paintball, if my gun froze, i'd take it back to my house and make a work around so it doesn't. if i tripped in the field i'd make sure to practice running. if the balls didn't fly out of the barrle in a straight line, i'd rework the gun so it would. how the hell do you see his changes as improvements? HE HAS RUINED THE GAME. jesus, just because he wants everyone to be able to play the game without having to learn it doesn't mean the rest of us who have already learned get punished with these crap settings.

[S8NSSON]

I feel the dramatic drop in player base over the years has more to do with people growing out of it, getting busy with life, and new games of interest, than of features pushing people away. Some people stick with thing for a long time, others enjoy and move on.

It would be nice to poll all the long lost old-schoolers and see exactly why they quit playing.
Some, like those that still visit this board, or hang in IRC, but never play may have issue with features and whatnot, but I think most have gone to college, graduated college, gotten married, gotten a real life, had kids, are trying to survive life, or have some other interest that has moved them away from the game.

Hell i've even left DP for long periods of time because of real life interests and matters.

I think online gaming, in general, has just become different from what it used to be back in the beginning of it all. The children of the first era of online gamers are probably beginning to play.

And...
I'm not sure how it's setup exactly, but any one of you programmers can grab the OPEN SOURCE and start your own version of this game any time you like. If you think Jitspoe is sucking that bad this is the way to throw him out. I've even thought about taking this game off on some wild tangent myself. I just don't have the time to even bother downloading the source. I'd get a divorce instantly if I did that.

So, YES, I am defending Jitspoe 100%. No one else is stepping up to the developement plate.

[Dirty_Taco]

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[Murdock]

Wow. Did Jitspoe run over someone's puppy or smth? I'll most likely regret posting in this thread, but wtf, by the looks of this mutiny, I'll stick with the captain. (sry, lame analogy, but Im watching Trek. And yes, I'm a geek.)

Anyway, first off.. Jitspoe? Good job. Fvck that, excellent job. Over the past eight years that I've been playing this game (off and on), I haven't seen anyone else (development team or otherwise) put in nearly as much time and effort into keeping the game fresh and (yes, I'll say it) suited to the community. Not all of the changes have been favorable to everyone, but in an effort to please the majority of the people (most of whom offer little feedback) Jits has exceeded my expectations.

Jits doesnt get paid for this game. He can do what he wants, and while Im sure he's entertained the idea of giant banana player models that shoot kittens , I doubt he'd do it. He makes a game for fun, and designs to what he thinks would work best. From the looks of it, he doesn't get much help and takes an load of crap from the community. Sometimes you see new maps, models, webpages and the like from a few good sould, but far too often you see forum bashing, idiots in irc, etc. It's a wonder Jit hasn't left us all to pursue more real life activities and games design that pays.

Secondly, well, there is no second. My adhd is kicking in, and I lost the other thoughts I had. Let's just say it disgusts me to see ppl saying Jitspoe "ruined this game" and less saying "thanks".

So, Thanks, Jitspoe. Awesome game, good guy.

/rant
//one of the "wing holders"

[jitspoe]

he doesn't even code on his own, he gets a lot of help doing it.

Help?  From who?  Who's helping me?  I'd like to know, because whoever it is isn't very helpful.  Ok, so Calrathan swings by every once in a while and contributes sometimes, but that's pretty rare these days.

i wish cyberdog had stayed and helped make dp

Haha, do you have a severe case of selective memory or something?  This is but a drop in the ocean compared to the community uproar that happened with him.  If you want his work, go download mortalfunk's q2pb or whatever it was called.  Remember how popular that was?  Hmm.

if i tripped in the field i'd make sure to practice running

Again, as I pointed out earlier if you had been paying attention, I did not implement the tripping code.  Also, I suppose this is also due to lack of observation, it's never used on any servers any more, ever.  You're just grasping at straws here trying to come up with excuses to insult me.

You call me happy and say I ruined the game, and when I ask how, you ignore me.  Then you come here whining about how I don't listen?  Then you don't listen yourself and start making crap up to bash me?

Lastly, why should I try to please you?  You do nothing but hurl insults at me and other people.  To be honest, I hope my changes drive you away from the community completely.  What have you ever done to contribute?

Go download the old Q2 mod before I "ruined" it and set up your own servers and clans.

[BSoD]

How about a nice little forum called User Feedback where jitspoe could post new ideas for community feedback and the community could post for ideas of their own?

[Cobo]

you mean a section called "Bugs, Feature Requests, and Feedback"?