New AntiCheat?

[payl]

i don;t see why jitspoe has to give YOU any information.. but still why can't you just give  him your version to look over and to maybe implement. If he likes what he sees he might let you help out.

because it might be hard to do it for him, maybe just because of other programming language, other compilator, and my extra things like obfuscator i done to protect code which wouldn't be easy to port to C++.
It is just much easier to add this anticheat as dll. Then also i would control my source, i don't want anyone to modify or steal it, you have to understand that you. And as Jitspoe doesn't seem to trust me much, i can't really trust him. It might change in future if there would be better solution.
And well, if you doesn't see reason why Jitspoe should give me some information, you probably never made anticheat, am i right?

of course you should be PMing him not openly posting like this on the thread. This thread was supposed to show that the community was interested in a new cheat detection system, now its mostly begging.

I don't go here into any details, but i think that people should know more about anticheat protection to decide if it's safe. Just some informations that doesn't give big clue to hackers but show that it's done goodly. I response to community questions about PAC in this thread. I don't see anything from begging in it... But you are always negative, i should get used to that.

[blaa]

 Yo brother, I usually like when people try to help and excrement. But you look dumb as intercourse. What you want, will never ever happen. If you want to help, then you need to trust jitspoe.

[payl]

Yo brother, I usually like when people try to help and excrement. But you look dumb as intercourse. What you want, will never ever happen. If you want to help, then you need to trust jitspoe.

Then he needs to trust me. It isn't one way trust. I don't accept it like that. If Jitspoe trust me, i trust him, thats really simple. And if in reponse to my PM about anticheat he says that he will never ever send me anticheat source, despite the fact that i never asked him for that, how i can feel? I feel like he treats me like cheater, haxor or at least some kind of noob. So how can i trust him? It isn't my fault that he won't doesn't give me reasons to trust him. I try to give reasons to trust me (But i don't want to lie etc. so i don't say old anticheat is good). If he will still treat me just like danger not helpful people, i'm not going to sit here, you should understand that. I hope you do.

[blaa]

 Yeah.

[pvtjimmy]

Payl, Jitspoe will never ever give you any bit of his anti cheating source. I would not take this as a personal offense for the reasons I posted before. This has nothing to do with trust, but with principles. One guy intercoursed it up for the rest, don't blame Jitspoe for this.

I understand that you invested some of your time in a project that you would like to see implemented into the game, and in best case also with a little reward. However, if you really like DP2 as much as you claim to do, this reward would be nothing to discuss about.
You are currently presenting yourself as "the hero that will kick out all cheaters of DP", by saying the current detection is bad and claiming your code is way better than the existing one. I think this is rather disrespectful to Jitspoe and I don't think anyone will appreciate such an attitude. At least I don't.

Also, I'm quite curious how you know that your detection is so much better, if you admit that Jitspoe refuses to share any of his info with you. Yes, I know you told me you more or less cracked the current code. Why did you not just inform Jitspoe about this leak in his code? Because that's what people who really care about the game would have done...

-edit- grammarnazi

[payl]

Payl, Jitspoe will never ever give you any bit of his anti cheating source. I would not take this as a personal offense for the reasons I posted before. This has nothing to do with trust, but with principles. One guy intercoursed it up for the rest, don't blame Jitspoe for this.

I mean he is overreacting a little bit. But as i made almost whole anticheat, give demos, give informations, even send big part of source to him yesterday, i thought he would start to help me to end it and include it finally. well i was wrong. I'm now waiting to let him look at source. I hope he will finally change his mind and decide to include it.

I understand that you invested some of your time in a project that you would like to see implemented into the game, and in best case also with a little reward. However, if you really like DP2 as much as you claim to do, this reward would be nothing to discuss about.
You are currently presenting yourself as "the hero that will kick out all cheaters of DP", by saying the current detection is bad and claiming your code is way better than the existing one. I think this is rather disrespectful to Jitspoe and I don't think anyone will appreciate such an attitude. At least I don't.

I'm often too positive about project, of course, but in fact, i invested much time to create good anticheat, i think it's only project in which i invested so much time to research about cheats, about WinApi, about EXE structure, even about memory organization. So i expect this to be good anticheat which will prevent many people from cheating. I think that if you know that much like i do about PAC and old anticheat, you would agree with me that PAC is at least 3x better, but, as you don't know, this might be too positive for you. I understand your opinion, but anyways, why don't let me try? I think it is better than just waiting till cheaters will make more bans than players active.

Also, I'm quite curious how you know that your detection is so much better, if you also admit that Jitspoe refuses to share any of his info with you. Yes, I know you told me you more or less cracked the current code. Why did you not just inform Jitspoe about this leak in his code? Because that's what people who really care about the game would have done...

Because you must never heard about hacking tricks. I've learned much about that, so i was able to see his code (i mean assembler code). It isn't leak, it is general anticheat poor protection against hacks, that isn't easy to prevent. So i tried to make my anti-hacking system, which then was renamed to anticheat and now it's finally PAC, which includes not only cheat protection but also anti-analyzing system. I was learning about hacks while creating PAC, and when i finally found how poorly protected paintball is, it was almost ready, so i decided to end it.
When i look now at it, it looks like creating anticheat is much easier than including it into paintball, because of people treating you as cheater... Hm, i don't think it should it be like that.

[cusoman]

because it might be hard to do it for him, maybe just because of other programming language, other compilator, and my extra things like obfuscator i done to protect code which wouldn't be easy to port to C++.
It is just much easier to add this anticheat as dll. Then also i would control my source, i don't want anyone to modify or steal it, you have to understand that you. And as Jitspoe doesn't seem to trust me much, i can't really trust him. It might change in future if there would be better solution.
And well, if you doesn't see reason why Jitspoe should give me some information, you probably never made anticheat, am i right?
I don't go here into any details, but i think that people should know more about anticheat protection to decide if it's safe. Just some informations that doesn't give big clue to hackers but show that it's done goodly. I response to community questions about PAC in this thread. I don't see anything from begging in it... But you are always negative, i should get used to that.

I mean he is overreacting a little bit. But as i made almost whole anticheat, give demos, give informations, even send big part of source to him yesterday, i thought he would start to help me to end it and include it finally. well i was wrong. I'm now waiting to let him look at source. I hope he will finally change his mind and decide to include it.
I'm often too positive about project, of course, but in fact, i invested much time to create good anticheat, i think it's only project in which i invested so much time to research about cheats, about WinApi, about EXE structure, even about memory organization. So i expect this to be good anticheat which will prevent many people from cheating. I think that if you know that much like i do about PAC and old anticheat, you would agree with me that PAC is at least 3x better, but, as you don't know, this might be too positive for you. I understand your opinion, but anyways, why don't let me try? I think it is better than just waiting till cheaters will make more bans than players active.
Because you must never heard about hacking tricks. I've learned much about that, so i was able to see his code (i mean assembler code). It isn't leak, it is general anticheat poor protection against hacks, that isn't easy to prevent. So i tried to make my anti-hacking system, which then was renamed to anticheat and now it's finally PAC, which includes not only cheat protection but also anti-analyzing system. I was learning about hacks while creating PAC, and when i finally found how poorly protected paintball is, it was almost ready, so i decided to end it.
When i look now at it, it looks like creating anticheat is much easier than including it into paintball, because of people treating you as cheater... Hm, i don't think should it be like that.

It sounds like you made a clienthook that fights classic clienthooks, and in order to protect it from hackers you need to keep most or all of the source for yourself.  You claim to need access to jitspoes cheat detection source to better implement your anti-cheat, so that you can catch all the hackers.

1. You already dissassembled his code, so you dont need it.
2. Jitspoe should never give out his anti-cheat source. If you can't see that its a rule with NO EXCEPTIONS then you're just laffable.
3. Sending ALL of your source, with detailed explanations as to how/why it works in regards to your "obfuscator" is the best thing you can do.  If you really did come up with some great ways to catch cheat methods, and great ways to prevent hacking the cheat detection, then awesome.  Tell jitspoe, he'll add it.  He cant just include your dll in the game and just assume its legit.  He shouldn't need to dissambled your 3rd party addon to ensure its safety.

Don't take my post the wrong way.  I think its amazing that you spent so much time developing what seems to be a very thorough cheat detection, but what you are proposing is impossible.  Jitspoe can't let you see his raw code. Jitspoe can't include anything he doesnt make himself in the cheat detection.  Jitspoe can look over your implementations and come up with similar ones

I'm glad you are truly dedicated to "PAC", but please just give it to jitspoe in private, and let him do what he can

- Cusoman

[MOFO]

I don't know if its just me who thinks this but there should be some kind of grammar on these forums would make reading payl's post way easier.

[payl]

It sounds like you made a clienthook that fights classic clienthooks, and in order to protect it from hackers you need to keep most or all of the source for yourself.  You claim to need access to jitspoes cheat detection source to better implement your anti-cheat, so that you can catch all the hackers.

1. You already dissassembled his code, so you dont need it.
2. Jitspoe should never give out his anti-cheat source. If you can't see that its a rule with NO EXCEPTIONS then you're just laffable.
3. Sending ALL of your source, with detailed explanations as to how/why it works in regards to your "obfuscator" is the best thing you can do.  If you really did come up with some great ways to catch cheat methods, and great ways to prevent hacking the cheat detection, then awesome.  Tell jitspoe, he'll add it.  He cant just include your dll in the game and just assume its legit.  He shouldn't need to dissambled your 3rd party addon to ensure its safety.

"So ok payl, you made much work now give it to us, because we know better". No i won't accept it like that. I know better what to do with my source, i don't want anyone to copy it, i give it to jitspoe just to review not to include it in his old anticheat. I'm not going to give Jitspoe source, because it's mine work, not his. I want to actively support you by adding new functions, helping in banning those etc.

Don't take my post the wrong way.  I think its amazing that you spent so much time developing what seems to be a very thorough cheat detection, but what you are proposing is impossible.  Jitspoe can't let you see his raw code. Jitspoe can't include anything he doesnt make himself in the cheat detection.  Jitspoe can look over your implementations and come up with similar ones

I'm glad you are truly dedicated to "PAC", but please just give it to jitspoe in private, and let him do what he can

I don't want him to do so, i'll consider it as stealing my ideas!
Cusoman, you look like you want to fool me to send Jitspoe whole source and then hope anything will be included.
I'm NOT going to do so or allow anyone to do so!
Also it seems like you haven't read part where i said I DO NOT WANT JITSPOES ANTICHEAT SOURCE. I'm finally clear? It is possible to add it without viewing me any code line, if Jitspoe want so. But i'm not going to allow to include my source in his work or to copy my ideas i come with in his work! I'm not like proposing you to get my anticheat source, i'm proposing to include my done work into your project.
Am i clear? I hope so. And i hope that i won't need to repeat it in that form, because i was speaking about it over and over, but no one really listen to me, so i had to use that form, sorry cusoman.

I don't know if its just me who thinks this but there should be some kind of grammar on these forums would make reading payl's post way easier.

Em? Maybe i should use translator, lol... I have to repeat once more: I'm not english, my english isn't perfect, i'm trying to change that, but that isn't easy.

[pvtjimmy]

Payl, I think we're back at a point we've been at before.

I understand your opinion, but anyways, why don't let me try?

Cusoman, you look like you want to fool me to send Jitspoe whole source and then hope anything will be included.

I usually don't like speaking for others, but I think in this case I can say that neither Cuso or I tried to attack you for your efforts on your anti cheating software. Also none of us tries to force you to do anything, nor did we try to make a fool out of you.
We just both spotted that with your current attitude, the situation will not change and therefore shared our thoughts on how you could do things better. As Jitspoe will not share his source with you, you won't share your source with him. You two are having a bad case of impasse and I don't think demanding Jitspoe to change his opinion is correct in this case.

Again Payl, I did not see a single critical note about your developments in this thread, the only comments are on the attitude you're showing. Downsize your attitude and you'll notice not everybody on the DP2 forum is trying to rage you. In fact, people support good ideas and I'm sure you'll find more fans if you'd only consider our advise.

[payl]

Payl, I think we're back at a point we've been at before.

I usually don't like speaking for others, but I think in this case I can say that neither Cuso or I tried to attack you for your efforts on your anti cheating software. Also none of us tries to force you to do anything, nor did we try to make a fool out of you.
We just both spotted that with your current attitude, the situation will not change and therefore shared our thoughts on how you could do things better. As Jitspoe will not share his source with you, you won't share your source with him. You two are having a bad case of impasse and I don't think demanding Jitspoe to change his opinion is correct in this case.

Of course, but i had to say NO. Sure, if jitspoe want my source, and won't give his, it is senseless.

Again Payl, I did not see a single critical note about your developments in this thread, the only comments are on the attitude you're showing. Downsize your attitude and you'll notice not everybody on the DP2 forum is trying to rage you. In fact, people support good ideas and I'm sure you'll find more fans if you'd only consider our advise.

I understand, but it's annoying when one idea is repeated over and over so i had to tell it really seriously (maybe i a little bit overreacted lol).
If there isn't way to include it without knowing exact source, okay. Then don't include it. But i guess you won't find another chance like that.

[MOFO]

Of course, but i had to say NO. Sure, if jitspoe want my source, and won't give his, it is senseless.

No whats senseless is that you won't give him the source to make the proper changes to it so it will be implemented into the game correctly
1.) You don't know for a fact if the anticheat will even work properly for a game so why would he want something thats a (P.OS) not saying that it is but you don't know that for a Fact

2.) How can you expect him to help you when you won't even give him the source and you're trying to sell it on irc to a bunch of people who don't know what the hell to do with it. Its common sense.

[payl]

No whats senseless is that you won't give him the source to make the proper changes to it so it will be implemented into the game correctly
1.) You don't know for a fact if the anticheat will even work properly for a game so why would he want something thats a (P.OS) not saying that it is but you don't know that for a Fact

2.) How can you expect him to help you when you won't even give him the source and you're trying to sell it on irc to a bunch of people who don't know what the hell to do with it. Its common sense.

1. I would need time to test it for sure and fix bugs. I'm able to do so.
2. It possible to include it without giving him source, lol. If you don't know how DLL works, then you might not know it, but it is possible to cooperate without giving source.

So if Jitspoe would want me to help, he would just provide API which i would follow and it would work, i don't see problem in fact.

[Foxhound]

help jitspoe help you... give him what you have ALL OF IT let him look it over.. i trust jitspoe and if you don't, go to the patent office and patent that excrement then send it to jitspoe, if he likes it he will have to put your name in the credits somewhere.

there you go hero.

[MOFO]

1. I would need time to test it for sure and fix bugs. I'm able to do so.
2. It possible to include it without giving him source, lol. If you don't know how DLL works, then you might not know it, but it is possible to cooperate without giving source.

So if Jitspoe would want me to help, he would just provide API which i would follow and it would work, i don't see problem in fact.

1. I would need time to test it for sure and fix bugs. I'm able to do so.
2. It possible to include it without giving him source, lol. If you don't know how DLL works, then you might not know it, but it is possible to cooperate without giving source.

So if Jitspoe would want me to help, he would just provide API which i would follow and it would work, i don't see problem in fact.

Maybe you're not quote getting what i'm saying here. What i'm saying is how in the hell are you gonna fix bugs and test it when you know for a fact that it probably doesn't work for the game in general.

[payl]

Maybe you're not quote getting what i'm saying here. What i'm saying is how in the hell are you gonna fix bugs and test it when you know for a fact that it probably doesn't work for the game in general.

I don't understand, do you think i'm noob and i can't debug it or what... I was testing it before with some test apps, it's working in general, i just need to test it with paintball (to disable false positives)... I really don't see any problem... But well, looks like you know better so whatever. I have no time to discuss about how do i debug my projects or how i could know that this work. I just know.

help jitspoe help you... give him what you have ALL OF IT let him look it over.. i trust jitspoe and if you don't, go to the patent office and patent that excrement then send it to jitspoe, if he likes it he will have to put your name in the credits somewhere.

there you go hero.

Do you see anything interesting in your post? Because i don't unfortunately.

Maybe i will use Viciouz idea and make my anticheat to hack into paintball and protect it that way lol, i'll look what have to be done to do that, so maybe it won't be included into paintball...

[MOFO]

I don't understand, do you think i'm noob and i can't debug it or what... I was testing it before with some test apps, it's working in general, i just need to test it with paintball (to disable false positives)... I really don't see any problem... But well, looks like you know better so whatever. I have no time to discuss about how do i debug my projects or how i could know that this work. I just know.[/u]

Case and Point?

[Rick]

Should've just kept this whole conversation between you and Jitspoe. If PAC is as good as you say, you have nothing to worry about it. Once Jitspoe reviews the code, he will surely message you back, but that chance might be gone after making this thread. (It just makes you look like a whiney kid that wants to get his way).

[payl]

Should've just kept this whole conversation between you and Jitspoe. If PAC is as good as you say, you have nothing to worry about it. Once Jitspoe reviews the code, he will surely message you back, but that chance might be gone after making this thread. (It just makes you look like a whiney kid that wants to get his way).

Well, for sure i doesn't want to simply give source i was doing for long time. Well, i hope it is worth time i was doing it, and also i hope i will be understand that i doesn't want to simply give it. But i'm kind of bored because of Jitspoe never having time for anything... I first PM'ed him long time ago, but well, he is allways busy. =/ So it is allways fun to talk to some people like MOFO that say they know that PAC won't work...

Case and Point?

For sure you know more about my project than me. Don't you think that i might know better? Then go ahead, but i don't expect bigger issues...

[Foxhound]

lol you see how he curved my post? Payl stop being stubborn if you want to help, give jitspoe all that you have because you're not getting any of his source; and by saying you are going to hack into the game now has made you look like Zaltekk just as jimmy said.

don't bother commenting on this thread again. just PM jitspoe