Wobluda Remake

[TRION]

JMR what is ur facebook ID???

[prozajik]

I think you should do it as a new map, honestly your progress is rly good and i kinda wanna see how it ends up. I agree that the changes you are doing are affecting gameplay so its not just visual remake. Sth like wobluda_rev (revisited) might work.
One more thing. the dirt on walls is weirdly shaped i dont see how it could hold on the walls like that in real world :p

[ic3y]

its JMRs remake so he will take what he prefers

You are a smart guy. I said just my opinion.

dpmc_wobluda would be nice.

[MaTzeMR]

You are a smart guy. I said just my opinion.

dpmc_wobluda would be nice.

i just said my opinion too.
and thanks for the smart guy thing :*

[MyeRs]

Changing anything terrain related changes the gameplay, making this not purely a visually upgrade of the map. In doing so, you change the current flow of the map. This map is the most widely played map, changing it's current flow could ruin the most played map at the moment.

Anything that alters the gameplay is a remake, and not a fix. And a remake isn't copying the existing map, it's improving the existing map. This is copying the existing, so shouldn't be considered a remake. And it's adjusting the gameplay, so shouldn't be happening. You made it look nicer, but it changed the gameplay in doing so.

[JMR]

Okay thanks for all the feedback.

The gameplay will be just as good as the original, if not better - that is my goal, to keep the classic gameplay STYLE of the map, obviously there will be minor variations, but all the jumps will be the same as well as most of the lines I am placing the terrain in a way that BENEFITS gameplay.

Also, in the cave, there are all clip brushes, you cannot get stuck on anything at all, basically, I am clipping out the details, so that's all they are - details, then putting clip brushes where the walls would be on the original sewer - same gameplay, but far better experience. This is not to say that there won't be any variation.

Yeah jitspoe, I took a look at them sewers, they don't look as good as a cave imo, + where did the water of them sewers go? Into nowhere? That's not realistic - water randomly vanishing.

I was thinking of placing snow spots along edges etc, to give it a wintry theme based on the feedback I got from clipz. So thus, the ice in the cave is not random.

The cave holds up by the wood, it's just dirt has gradually mounted and fallen down from the sides from all the people bashing into the wall... (hence the crack in the wood).


If you saw the map, you'd see that it looks like wood is holding the tunnel up, but dirt has fallen over it

[BASEBALLDUDE]

Myers, although I agree with some of your points, such as the one about people liking Wobluda for its simplicity (the same reason why people like Sunman textures), I think that what JMR is doing is completely worthwhile. If we can have some professional-looking maps on a free game, that would be a huge advantage of having and playing Paintball2 and therefore would attract more players to this game. (And that's exactly what we want, right?)

[JMR]

Myers, although I agree with some of your points, such as the one about people liking Wobluda for its simplicity (the same reason why people like Sunman textures), I think that what JMR is doing is completely worthwhile. If we can have some professional-looking maps on a free game, that would be a huge advantage of having and playing Paintball2 and therefore would attract more players to this game. (And that's exactly what we want, right?)

Myers is also saying that terrain could ruin the gameplay - right myers, random terrain can. You gotta ask the question, what is the gameplay? Gameplay is a very broad term, to me, the gameplay of wobluda is it's basic elements, aka, the shape and layout. That's what makes wobluda's classical gameplay. Also, there are people who don't like wobluda as it stands, it's old and a little barren on main, I am gonna give maps like this a new coat of professionalism. Terrain placed in a sensible way can ultimately benefit gameplay. For example, the ramp to base high now gives more cover when  you crouch in certain spots, making it far much more tactical.

I am not just doing this for the newbies, I am doing it for the match scene, the match scene is looking tired with some of these maps. Sure, gameplay is great, but tired looking, old looking. New players who join the match scene feel like they've joined an old-people's club - I know that's how I felt when I joined, with some of the "older" maps. So I am gonna use this to my advantage and create a whole new map series. to my own style. dpmc_ wouldn't be for me to use, as I am working on these maps individually to my own style, however, I am doing this to benefit the community and user experience in general. I don't feel that the mapping committee has to work on a single map together, but just work on making good maps for the game, that are top notch professional. Also, by my experience, working as a team on a single map doesn't always benefit. However, working as a team on ideas and improvements is what I think counts.

[stomper]

I just saw the map and the stuff what's done so far in-game.
It is really like the wobluda just more professional... and so far i can't see any changes of the game-play.

It's gonna turn out as a very good map imo.

Good job JMR!

[jitspoe]

Yeah jitspoe, I took a look at them sewers, they don't look as good as a cave imo, + where did the water of them sewers go? Into nowhere? That's not realistic - water randomly vanishing.

The map committee version didn't have water... did you look at the latest one?

So thus, the ice in the cave is not random.

I think the problem is that it looks like snow, and it doesn't really make sense that it would snow in a tunnel.

The cave holds up by the wood, it's just dirt has gradually mounted and fallen down from the sides from all the people bashing into the wall... (hence the crack in the wood).

If you saw the map, you'd see that it looks like wood is holding the tunnel up, but dirt has fallen over it

I understand what you're going for.  The problem is building that out of blocky brushes kinda makes it look less realistic, even though you have more detail.

[BASEBALLDUDE]

It's OK to change the gameplay a little; however, try to do that only on spots that the community agrees should be fixed.

Maybe you should try to make the snow look a little more like ice for the purpose of realism. Look at the partially ice tunnel in Carpathian; that's what would look the best in that tunnel.

If you plan on doing a bunch of remakes like this, you should also do wipa, daylight, and banliue.

[Clipz]

I disagree with wipa daylight and banliue, wipa is a cluster, daylight is horrible too much ice and babliue is not played plus its a ugly map

[JMR]

The map committee version didn't have water... did you look at the latest one?
I think the problem is that it looks like snow, and it doesn't really make sense that it would snow in a tunnel.
I understand what you're going for.  The problem is building that out of blocky brushes kinda makes it look less realistic, even though you have more detail.

What is that on the ground then, looked like slushy water from the screenshots.
The point is that there was water that had frozen over time, to become ice. But I agree, I will try to make it look more like ice
Maybe the screenshots don't do my wall work justice, when you see it as passing by, it looks really nice and from the comments of a lot of people, they think it looks much better.

By the way, I will give full permission for jitspoe to use my map remakes with the game, so he has rights to use my maps however he pleases.

[JMR]

Made the ice look more like... well... ice

[MyeRs]

JMR: You don't understand gameplay then based off your reply to me. Gameplay isn't made by a map as a whole. Gameplay is made by every little aspect of it, that creates the map as a whole. Changing terrain changes aspects of the movement, which changes the gameplay. I'm judging it off your screenshots, and I can already see obvious spots of changed gameplay. Just the way you hit the ground is different, and that changes the gameplay.

Your dirt on the ground of the ice is an example of what changes it. Also, it's a sewer, don't make it dirt. You're changing it to something it's not.

Your visual improvements ARE changing the gameplay of the map. The gameplay of this map works, your terraining isn't improving the map, because it changes the map.

Also, changing visuals DOES NOT HELP THE COMPETITIVE/MATCH SCENE. The match scene is accustomed to the visuals of this game. They've stuck around for other reasons.

Your mapping as a whole has improved, but if you're going to fix a map, do not change it. Try to work on an older map, and do a remake that CHANGES the map. Changing visually is too hard, cause the smallest of changes can influence the gameplay negatively. In a map with good gameplay, it's not worth changing anything.

Please do not continue on this map in this way of "changing", because your current changes adjust the flow of the map, which adjust gameplay. Your mapping has improved, work on a map with potential to become better - or a map that that isn't as widely played.

[JMR]

JMR: You don't understand gameplay then based off your reply to me. Gameplay isn't made by a map as a whole. Gameplay is made by every little aspect of it, that creates the map as a whole. Changing terrain changes aspects of the movement, which changes the gameplay. I'm judging it off your screenshots, and I can already see obvious spots of changed gameplay. Just the way you hit the ground is different, and that changes the gameplay.

Your dirt on the ground of the ice is an example of what changes it. Also, it's a sewer, don't make it dirt. You're changing it to something it's not.

Your visual improvements ARE changing the gameplay of the map. The gameplay of this map works, your terraining isn't improving the map, because it changes the map.

Also, changing visuals DOES NOT HELP THE COMPETITIVE/MATCH SCENE. The match scene is accustomed to the visuals of this game. They've stuck around for other reasons.

Your mapping as a whole has improved, but if you're going to fix a map, do not change it. Try to work on an older map, and do a remake that CHANGES the map. Changing visually is too hard, cause the smallest of changes can influence the gameplay negatively. In a map with good gameplay, it's not worth changing anything.

Please do not continue on this map in this way of "changing", because your current changes adjust the flow of the map, which adjust gameplay. Your mapping has improved, work on a map with potential to become better - or a map that that isn't as widely played.

Although that is your opinion, there are many that think that this remake will make wobluda much better. It's a remake myers, it's not a sewer any longer, clipz (who is in the mapping committee) had an idea of making it a cave instead, so I listened to feedback and did so.

There are clip brushes inside of the cave that make the water the same shape of the sewer, so basically, the gameplay exactly the same...
As I said, there will be slight variation, but as the tactical side of gameplay, the idea of wobluda, water leading to mid, ice rush, 2 flags with a dirt bd Etc, will be the same

I aint 'fixing' wobluda. I am remaking it into a different style to look better.

[LaZeRs]

It doesn't matter if everything's not real... it's DP... not the best game in terms of making things real anyways.

[MyeRs]

If you're remaking then don't work on the existing map with visual upgrades. Visual upgrades isn't remaking. You're attempting to fix it, and in turn changing the gameplay. It's a waste of time, and not improving anything.

[JMR]

If you're remaking then don't work on the existing map with visual upgrades. Visual upgrades isn't remaking. You're attempting to fix it, and in turn changing the gameplay. It's a waste of time, and not improving anything.

Uhm, no... I made everything from scratch so far man. All I am working off is screenshot reference of the original, combined with checking the scales.... Also, many people think I am improving the map, by improving the style. The gameplay probably WILL be better too, giving more variation to players with detailed terrain.

[Mission]

Oh the original remake of the sewer definitely looks more realistic, and would be great to speed through due to the lights, and JMR's looks more christmasy and cartoony, I cant decide what I like best. Is there a way to take ideas from both? I LOVE the lighting in both. Tricky.