Ranking system isn't the best idea

[MyeRs]

After originally supporting this idea, I have come across some flaws in it. I don't think it'll be worthwhile given the lack of time jitspoe has, and the lack of players in the community.

In games without matchmaking, a ranking system for individual players is not worth the time to make. Most games that allow you to choose which server to join don't have ranking systems for individual players, because of all the different modes you can play. In DP, there isn't enough constant activity to have a matchmaking system implemented (by this I mean - hit join game - get put into a server with "x" other people - play game - which limits people leaving during a game). With the way pubs have traditionally been, you rarely get a full map with equal teams. And a ranking system is most efficiently done with a W/L rating, rather than a KD rating. Also, KD rating would cause A LOT of spawn camping - or just general camping - in attempts to improve KD.

Having ranking system for only designated servers also doesn't give much - since it'll likely be match servers. This is a very small handful of people, which means time spent by Jitspoe that does nothing to truly impact the game.

A "team" ranking system could be cool - but there aren't enough teams to make this worthwhile. Also, other than ego-boosting there aren't any benefits of being highly rated. Also, teams are just randomly created and disbanded in this game, with no desire to truly improve. A ranking system wouldn't improve this - I feel running a tournament does more than a ranking system, with much less work involved. (IE Blaa used to run great QeHs cups, that pretty much ran themselves.)

TL;DR - Ranking system has flaws, and is not worth the time it takes to make.

MY OPINION ON SMALL CHANGES THAT COULD IMPROVE GAME: (Considering Jitspoe apparently gets almost 700 downloads daily)

1) After logging into the game, the startup menu should NOT have "Start New Game" -- This is very misleading for new players. I guarantee many players click that, and end up in an offline server alone, wondering what is happening. SOLUTION: In the build that has improved Bot AI change this to "Single Player Mode"

2) Been said before, but change it so people can make an account while in game. People are lazy, any shortcut helps.

3) Add invulnerability for 'x' seconds after spawning. Speed Servers are actually good, and most games that do not have matchmaking tend to have speed servers. They aren't a problem, and people trying out games often rather learn there. Being dead is no fun for them. Also, more "newbies" are found here, giving them a chance at staying a live. When I download a game, I often test it out in speed servers. Anything that keeps the action going so I can see if I like the game.

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There's always a bunch of "improve the visuals" of the game, but the above 3 things are simple changes that I feel would help the game.

I don't think a ranking system is worth Jitspoes free time, as he does not have much of it to waste. I think that will only be appreciated by competitive players. If people think boosting egos matters for the competitive scene, then maybe something like "officially run tournaments" where top 3 teams get some post/shoutout somewhere on forums. But even that is pretty pointless.

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Opinions? Do you think a ranking system is worth the time to make? Do you think it'll actually change new people staying? If you downloaded a game, would a game with a ranking system really matter? Or are there a bunch of other things that matter first?

(Just posting this because I was told this was on the to do list of DP)

Please do not post saying: "Too long, didn't waste time reading" - The people who read it are the opinions I care about seeing. I'd like the thread to stay relevant. Thanks

[Cameron]

TL;DR

I agree with point 1.  Not sure that point 2 is a necessity, because as you said most people will head for speed servers, which are all pretty much run on sv_login 0 or 1, and if they're like me I get really pissed off when asked to register for something when I just want to try it out.  With point 3, the problem I see arising is that if you shoot around a corner near spawns, and someone has only just spawned, you have no idea if they're under spawn protection or not, and you weren't being an arse and spawn camping, yet they've now got the upper hand.

As for the ranking system, I agree that it needs to be team based, and not individual based, as the last couple of forum ranking things have been.  Again yeah, its just bragging rights tbh, but hell it'd make things fun when you beat higher teams and stuff.  On the other hand though, individual based rankings I'd think would draw a larger new player base, as theres some incentive for them to keep playing, and can do so by themselves (ie rankings like cod).

[jitspoe]

There are some people who play the game for a little bit and get bored because they just spawn camp some newbies and think that's all there is to it, and that they're dominating.  If there was a ranking system in place to show them something to strive for, they might stick around.

I really don't know how much of an impact something like this would have on the active player base.  I agree that it would not be good on the popular pubs.  I picture ranked games working something like they do in cS:GO.  You can choose to play either "casual" (pub), or "competitive" (ranked).  Competitive mode would wait until X number of players are in to start the match (ex: 4v4).  If anybody left mid-match, they would get a significant penalty on their ranking and/or blocked from playing competitive matches for a bit.

Also, I imagine having 2 different types of "ranking".  The first would be the general XP type, where you earn XP for playing on pubs with standard settings (not speed servers), level up, and maybe have some kind of unlocks.  The other would be an actual ladder (using the more organized competitive games mentioned above).  This would be for ranking yourself against other players, and you could go up or down.

[x3z]

if i can unlock things pls only clothes or sth like that. Please no new weapon or sth like that

[atmays]

I think that if the guys in the forums would play then that could help. I see alot of people commenting and posting about what Jits should do but rarely see any of them in game.

[BASEBALLDUDE]

I think that it would be a lot more complicated to calculate stats than one might think, and here's why. You need to take flag grabs and caps into consideration, too, it's not all about the kills. For example, a camper who has 20 kills and 8 deaths but hasn't touched the flag might not be actually as good as a team player who has 10 kills, 12 deaths, but 3 flag captures.

[MyeRs]

I think that it would be a lot more complicated to calculate stats than one might think, and here's why. You need to take flag grabs and caps into consideration, too, it's not all about the kills. For example, a camper who has 20 kills and 8 deaths but hasn't touched the flag might not be actually as good as a team player who has 10 kills, 12 deaths, but 3 flag captures.

Ultimately, the game is about a mixture of killing, grabbing, capping, in order to get 50 points faster than the opponents. So, Win/Loss in my opinion is the only real method a ranking system should lose. Carrying a game involves more than a 1-dimensional play style. It's what separates good players from average/bad players.

[Primo]

ranking system pls

[Clipz]

I see Myers points but I still like an idea with achievements exp could unlock different logos on jerseys, names, clan tags ect ect. The more I think of it an individual based ranking I like more because let's be honest the match ranking will be more difficult. It would get more pub players to stay around and we were all pub players once, what can that translate to? More competitive matching over time?

[BASEBALLDUDE]

Also, clutch plays (like giving team the lead in a close game and shooting the opposing player who has the flag) should be worth a little more just because it's a tight situation in a close game. From my experience in speed servers, there are far too many players who try to find a good, safe camping spot and try to rack up kills while avoiding being killed. A lot of these players are camping at their own base, simply because they're less likely to get shot there. Ridiculous I say! A ranking system that encourages grabbing and capping would likely fix this problem. Unlockable skins and such would also help people get motivated to lead their team to victory instead of being a "role player" or worse, "spawn killer and proud of it". The key to getting these players to change is to give them an incentive to playing the right way.

[LaZeRs]

Also, you can have an "Achievement Get: _____" so like if you get your fiftieth kill in the game ever, a popup or something like that shows up on your screen saying: "Achievement Get: Get 50 Kills". [And localstats are on, so the game probably tracks down how many kills/deaths/grabs/caps/etc. you have] And since it's on your screen, the players will notice it and will be happy that they got that many kills [already]. And other ones like "Achievement Get: Cap 3 Times in One Map", or "Achievement Get: Do a 360 kill", or "Achievement Get: Kill 4 people in a row", and on and on and on. It may work better from other games (this is where I got the idea from), and people may say this isn't good, but maybe this will make newer players happy that they're getting these achievements, and then try to get the next one.

[BASEBALLDUDE]

Fewer killing achievements, more flag-related achievements (to discourage camping)
Or a ladder system, for example, beginner, amateur, veteran, pro, all-star, etc.
And achievements would win unlockable useless but cool stuff (like skins, accessories, etc.)

[LaZeRs]

Maybe only count a kill when they're moving.

[Justinph5]

I don't see ranking as fun as 'stats' could be... Achievements per se would be quite hard to code in, but stats would be quite easy and could hold a more rounded value than a rank. Stats such as number of kills per each gun, kdr per map, most played guns/maps, topspeeds (map basis), rivals, dominations, score per minute, flags/captures, etc. And even do the stats on a per clan basis (where clans have to be over 3 months old to have stats.)

I would make a 'public' server stat set, and a 'match' server stat set, so clan members don't worry about their stats while having fun on a public server...

Then I like Clipz's idea of showing them off, but make it simpler first. Say you get little achievement symbols for achieving a stat level. You can then choose which achievement symbol you want to show on the leaderboard. And also let clans create their own little clan symbols they could use?

This would keep the 'achievement hunters' playing more, since they can focus on individual stats at a time. Possibly once all stats are complete, reset your stats to choose a new styled jersey you could wear, then start all over for the next one?

Just throwing some ideas out there, since building a fair rank system for this game would be quite difficult to plan from the start.

[Clipz]

Camping is part of this game whether you like it or not, The best teams have good rushers, someone to hold mid and a camper if necessary. Examples: SHK (rusher) Myers (mid) and (Chem) Camping when needed. I my self rush and grab, not everyone can have the same game play style as the other. Great teams consist all three, or a mix of all. Just because you defend this shouldn't penalize you, and make it so you get less points. Your examples are kind of weak baseballdude. Like I said camping is a major part of this game just like rushing and grabbing the flag. The difference from the GREAT players to the average is, the great players can do all three if needed when the average cant hold their own on one.

That's the reason why Myers, SHK, Chem, Chalk and Myself are a lot more skilled then most players. Not every player has the skill to do it all but we all didn't have that skill right away. It takes time, this game isn't going to be learned overnight, or in a month. It takes people years to learn how to become successful players.

[BillBrasky]

How about this?

1. Keep/modify existing game scoring and track per player:

Capture flag on opponent base - 1
Return opponent flag to own base - 4
Possess flag when last opponent eliminated - 2
Eliminate last opponent - 1

2. Add new scoring opportunities and track per player:

Eliminate opponent with team flag - 2
Return own flag to base - 1

3. Spawn killers are motivated to top the scoreboard in kills. Therefore, allow each player to see only his kill/elimination totals - do not post them on the scoreboard. Instead, list the point totals above and rank players by total points.

4. Calculate a player's all-time total points scored and points scored per hour. Experienced players will have a higher point total. Better players will have a higher points per hour.

Servers can exclude/include players based on either or both. For example, an advanced player server may require at least 1000 points scored and 20 points/hour.

Players who do nothing but camp and spawn kill will be scoring few points, and will not make it onto the advanced servers.

5. Do not use wins/losses in rankings. Players about to lose will try to switch teams, or simply leave the game.

[jitspoe]

Rewards/achievements would have to be very carefully selected so that people trying to get them don't get in the way of people trying to win the game.

For example, if you get a reward for killing players, people will focus on that instead of letting their team capture the flag.

I think wins/losses is fine to post in rankings, but a win should only count if you stuck with that team, and disconnects should count as a loss.

[TRION]

But if there was a timeout or ping of death then People like me would keep on getting a loss

[jitspoe]

Maybe it would just count as a loss if the team you were on lost.

[UnRateD]

Good points well made, I think it just comes down to priorities on whether the game should look to better accommodate the current players or work to entice new ones. In my opinion a ranking system is pointless, especially right now for the reasons provided in terms of how it would affect gameplay negatively (spawn camping etc.), and the necessary altercations to any ranked system to adjust for these problems are just too time consuming, even moreso when for a useless system.